Search Results for 'arc euro'

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

The pressures on importers are not just commercial.

Arc Euro closed because the owner wished to retire, and no other company was prepared to take on the business.

Howard, in the early 2000’s we at Amadeal placed an order with Sieg for several of their C3 lathes. They proved to be popular selling very quickly, and so followed up with a full container of assorted mills and lathes. Unfortunately pressure was put on the Sieg company not to supply us. No names, no pack drill!

At that time we were trading successfully with Real Bull and did so for a few years. With limited range we found Weiss who have a much greater product range and who have become our main supplier.

Incidentally, The CEO Michael Wei of Weiss on one of his visits to our warehouse in East London let slip that Warco stopped buying from them as we had become a customer of theirs.

Hugh                                                                                                                                  Amadeal Ltd

 

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The pressures on importers are not just commercial.

Arc Euro closed because the owner wished to retire, and no other company was prepared to take on the business.

That was bad news for many of us.

the pricing package has a lot to do with sales volumes.

Arc Euro sold may items that were, ostensibly, the same as those on offer from other suppliers.

The obvious case were the machines, Arc offered the most basic package at a low price, with a 12 month hobby use warranty. Axminster offered ostensibly the same machines, in a different colour scheme, with a longer warranty; at a higher price.

On the face of it you can buy similar machines, from the same manufacturer, from other U K Importers, (and elsewhere in the world)  The package, and the price will be different, as will the support provided.

All suppliers have to make a profit, to survive, and need to offer a package and price combination that customers want and are willing to afford.

What you ultimately get is your decision, partly based on what you are prepared to pay.

Hopefully, the configuration of Axminster will continue to provide the same quality of product, and back up, as before, if not better.

Time will tell.

Howard

 

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

Shame about the low resolution on that wiring diagram 🙁

MichaelG.

.

Thanks

 

Think I’m going to get a plug for the rear socket and connect a 60W (or 100W) light bulb to it to make sure the lathe is outputting correctly.

 

I did fit a replacement motor control PCB a few years ago that I got from Arceurotrade. It is possible that I messed things up somewhere.

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

Dave,

I agree with what you said but…

 

I don’t buy from the sub-standard/stack ‘em high/reject merchants unless:

1)  I am confident it will do the job required,

2)  I am confident I can fix any short-comings, or

3)  I can afford to throw it away!

…Personally, I prefer to buy once, not twice.  That means ‘middle-of-the-road’ or better.  Good quality items, bought second hand, can be far better than cheap chinese.  …

 

Well, we’re trying to manage the risk of buying tools that aren’t “Fit for Purpose”.  I suggest buyers do better by thinking about their needs rather than generalising.    Ask what could possibly go wrong AND what can be done to mitigate it?

When buying tools Model Engineers have three main sources, each with pros and cons:

1. New from an industrial supplier.  Pro:  Well-made to a specification and reliable.  Con: EXPENSIVE.  New members sometimes intend going this route, but abandon the idea on seeing the prices!
2. Secondhand from an industrial supplier. Pro: might be as good as new and considerably cheaper.  Con:  Depends on condition.  Secondhand is a gamble.   And, because the item is secondhand, the purchasers rights are reduced.   In particular, buying at an exhibition the buyer has few rights because he actually saw the product.   Risk of wasting money is reduced by distance buying regulations, but the buyer could lose out if the item is unsatisfactory.   Much depends on the seller:  some are fly-by-night or fraudsters.
3. New from a hobby supplier or box shifter.  Pro:  New and affordable. Money protected by warranty and consumer protection.  Con.  Not necessarily well-made.  What arrives anything from cheap and nasty up to industrial grade.  Box Shifters and Marketplace sellers like  Vevor, Amazon and Bangood unlikely to provide technical support.  Buyer responsible for understanding the manual.

With respect the idea of “buy once not twice” is suspect.  Made sense before consumer and distance selling protection, back when buying too cheap left the purchaser in the lurch.  Too cheap was a major problem before manufacturing developed ways of making mid-range products.

When buying tools was a risky investment, it paid to go upmarket.  Not so today, because times have changed!  Now most products are “mid-range”, and when new products are unsatisfactory, they are replaced or money back.  The purchase is low risk.

I suggest hobbyists think carefully about their needs. Most of us I suspect are light users, not flogging tools, working against the clock, or working to high-precision.   Fun and interest rather than production.

Factors:

• wide availability of affordable mid-range tools “good-enough” for several years work in a moderately busy workshop.  Cheap enough to be considered consumables rather than investments.  Why spend more?
• purchases protected by money back/replace are low risk. Protecting purchases by buying upmarket is usually unnecessary.
• new industrial is very expensive.
• second-hand is financially risky if the item is in poor condition.

Main reason for buying new industrial is reliability:  it works out of the box when time is of the essence and has a longer life than inexpensive alternatives.   If I were equipping a ship where a critical repair might have to be made at sea, I wouldn’t risk discovering an unopened set of Bangood Angle Gauges were no good.   But the same set at home would be checked on arrival and rejected if necessary, thus saving me lots of dosh.

May I warn against quality issues on internet comment.  Emma’s 8 year old video is a sample of one and she doesn’t say the product is useless.  Or that everything sold by Bangood is untrustworthy.  My Angle gauge set came from China via ArcEuro and doesn’t have the defects Emma detected.  My advice, don’t take generalised conclusions too seriously, especially if the advice isn’t evidenced.  For example:  NDIY says:  My secondhand Britool socket set (very old, now) is still far better quality than most chinese offerings.  What’s the evidence for that then?  China make a lot of spanners!  What did Britool do that can’t be emulated by any other spanner maker who chooses to go up-market?  Spanners aren’t rocket science!

Dave

 

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Thank you, Bill/Peak4 for your reply and photo which is spot on. Thanks also to Charles,Humber and Peter for your replies.

As I said,  I tried various suppliers in the hope of finding them pictured on their websites for sale, but no success. Trouble is, unless you provide an exact match of words their puter will reply not found. Without proper name, snookered! I tried ruler/s and parallels as I thought that they could be displayed on the same page. I have only that small set of 5 from 5° to 25° and no box. Could have been sold as a cheap set of most commonly used angles. Possibly the much missed Arceurotrade supplier.

Thank you all again for your help.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Sorry to see Axminster go but in truth I haven’t used them since they shut their Basingstoke store.  I used to drop off the M4 and divert through B’Stoke on the way back home from No1 Son. That was probably some years ago now (I tend to lose track of time these days).

However, I’m going to (already do) miss Arc Euro a lot more!  🙁

Slightly off topic, No2 Son took me to our local Pub twice last week, so we are trying to do our bit to keep them in business. It’s the same as everything else – use it or lose it.

Regards,

 

IanT

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

It is sad to hear that Axminster is closing, especially after ArcEuro’s recent closure.

I wonder if there are now any UK based comanies left that are able to support the owners of Sieg lathes and mills, especially regarding the electrical parts?

Maybe Clarke Power Products is a source…. https://www.clarkeinternational.com/c/metal-lathes-milldrills/ …or Chronos …. https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/product-category/milling-machines-clarke/ ?

There is Sieg Machines in Germany …. https://www.sieg-machines.de/Accessories-lathe-C2-/-SC2 ….but I don’t see any circuit bords or motors listed.

Ches

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Arc Euro, Zoro and now Axminster! Crikey things aren’t looking good, I hope this isn’t a trend.

[cedric 1Participant @cedric]

Oh dear. Another one gone, coming so soon after Ketan”s retirement and the closure of industry stalwart Arc Euro. Is this another sign of the slow death of our hobby as enthusiasts age out?

The administrators summary states the reasons for closure as declining footfall in physical stores post covid and declining demand overall coupled with increasing costs.

Is the hobby declining or did everyone get used to buying online in Covid days and now buy from the cheapest suppliers such as Aliexpress etc direct from China.

I know not many will buy a lathe or mill from Aliexpress etc. But I know personally it is hard to beat for tooling, indexable holders and inserts, dial indicators,  tailstock centres, milling cutters, etc etc etc.  Yes it’s not Starrett quality buts it’s great value for money at hobby level.

Shame to see local companies and brick and mortar shops disappearing though. Hopefully the survivors will fill the gap and grow stronger in the process.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

As far as I can tell there is no ban on Borax, so I suspect that is internet hype.

It is not on the restricted SVHC list as far as I can find. It is on the unrestricted 2025 reach candidates list, but that doesn’t mean its restricted, just that its in the list of substances of concern.

Information is available here:

https://chem.echa.europa.eu/100.129.152/overview?searchText=1303-96-4

Dave

Hi all,

Is anyone aware of a supplier of the ‘slim’ AXA 250-101M tool holders that Arceurotrade.co.uk used to sell…?

The 250-101 holders are easy to find, but not the 101M version.

Alternatively…are these tool holders hardened..? Could I just mill down a 101 holder to the same dimensions of a 101M…(without investing in a new carbide cutter)?

Thanks.

[Richard Simpson]

On Richard Simpson Said:

… he once attended a lecture given by a very eminent chap from the industry who was explaining the dangers of transience of technology and how this relates to archiving of data.  Obviously we all see improvements in file types and then the upgraded software required to run them and, consequently the latest hardware required to run the software.  …

Anyway the main theme of the lecture was the fact that he was advocating that the only way to effectively archive pictures and documents was to store them as hard copy.  He was even suggesting that the pictures we take that are particularly valuable to us should be printed out and stored in albums.  …

Yes, advancing digital storage methods are a major problem!   Not because supporting old formats is technically impossible, but because budget holders choose not to.  They argue that customers should pay to reverse engineer the necessary software, if they really need the information.  Expensive, so rarely done.  The reason is cost.  The information is not available to anyone with a casual interest; we’ve lost it.

Another problem is forcing costs up.  It’s that the volume of information needed to describe technology is growing like Topsy.

In warship engineering, the RN had what they called a Ships Cover.   This was the document set describing a warship, or a class of warships.  The Ships Cover for HMS Victory, that vessel being very simple by modern standards, could be folded up and stuffed into a suitcase.  Conversely, the Ships Cover for a Polaris submarine is huge: the missile alone is described in about 1200  3″ thick manuals, and these do not cover the warhead.   I imagine the design of the subs Reactor, Turbines, Hull, Fittings, Ventilation, Control Systems, Electrics, Communications, Surveillance, Food Storage, and Air are similarly gigantic.

HMS Victory’s crew slept in hammocks slung wherever there was space, the ship was unheated in the arctic and uncooled on the equator.  Pooing in the heads, open to the elements and in public.  Plain food and dirty drinking water,  poor ventilation, lit by tapers, etc.  So primitive that most of the ship and fittings can be described with a few drawings, some words and a good model.

Modern warships provide bunks, temperature control, privacy, proper sewage,  good food, clean water, stabilisers, electric light, telephones, entertainment and much else besides.   These are all defined in engineering terms, and the total volume is enormous, far too big to archive in paper form.  A Polaris missile is orders of magnitude more complex than a 32lb ship’s cannon…

The last individual with a reasonable grasp of all engineering may have been Edison circa 1890.  Since then all engineers are specialists.   Thomas Sopwith considered himself lucky to be designing aircraft at a time when he could do most of the work himself.  After about 1916, aircraft design required increasingly large teams of specialists, and tons of paperwork.  Designing a modern fast-jet is beyond most aerospace companies and in Europe requires an international consortia.   Very few nations can afford them either! B2 Stealth Bombers cost over $2bn each, and that aircraft’s current refurbishment programme has a $7bn budget.

Like it or not, modern engineering isn’t simple.  Hankering after past simplicities does no good, old methods were replaced because they couldn’t  cope.  The answer isn’t what I was taught 50 years ago, and pre WW2 methods are hopeless.

Dave

[Brainsparks30]

On Brainsparks30 Said:

…

Buying cheap and buying twice is a good old adage, but I ought to know what cheap is for lathe tools first.  I have heard of some good names like Starret, and awful like Sealy.

The Sherline chucks look pretty good, you can have one built to spec.

…

Getting there!

 

Being cheap and buying twice is dubious advice, so don’t take this old saw too seriously!  It dates from a time when good tools were expensive, and times have changed.  Modern manufacturing focusses on value for money and fit for purpose, not the best irrespective of cost.  Plenty of mid-range tools about: not industrial grade, but plenty good enough for moderate use, and cheap enough to replace when they wear out.

Excellent ways of wasting money include:

1. Buying by brand-name only to discover you’re paying for the label,
2. Buying brand-name only to find that the original company went bust in 1968, and that the current owner does not meet the original spec.   The quality justifies the brand, not the other way round.
3. Buying second-hand without checking condition.  Condition depends on history, not how good it was when new.
4. Expecting top-end tools to improve ordinary or worn lathes.  A C0 isn’t top-end, it is what it is. Kitting one out with expensive accessories like hand-built chucks is questionable!  The C0 isn’t a good place to start if you really need the best.  They work well enough with affordable accessories.  They’re a bit clunky for clockmaking, and a tad small for general purpose, but do a good job between those sectors.   A couple of model railway friends had them – small, clean and quiet enough to use in the house.
5. Expensive tools often pay for themselves by saving time,  But a skilled machinist can get equivalent results from lesser tooling, it just takes longer.  Are you a commercial organisation working against the clock, or a hobbyist developing skills?  If the latter, buy mid range.
6. The relative cost of tools has dropped enormously, so it’s not the end of the world if stuff has to be replaced.
7. Expensive tools may last longer than you.  How long do you expect to live?
8. Seeing tools as an investment could be a bad mistake.  When the time comes, the workshop might end up in a skip, or be bought as house-clearance…
9. Not buying tools to fulfil a particular need.   Might have chosen the wrong lathe, in which case unwise to rush to buy all the accessories!  The other approach is to buy when needed, which also derisks accidentally ordering a lorry-load of stuff that doesn’t fit.  Far better to think about the requirement and buy tools that meet it.  Don’t mindlessly follow internet advice, or that from chaps who might have completely different needs, be out-of-date, or a racist!  It’s your money that will be wasted, not theirs.
10. Wanting rather than needing. (Not forbidden because it’s a hobby!)
11. Feeling good because it’s “reassuringly expensive”.

I’ve often ignored the “buy cheap, buy twice” warning and never regretted it.  Using a pair of pliers bought 57 years ago at the moment, despite an elderly man insisting they wouldn’t last.  He was wrong!.  Though he meant well, repeating time-expired dogma isn’t good advice. Unless you have an unlimited budget.  I prefer to think.

Most of us have a budget though.  The lathe and accessories are the tip of an iceberg.  You have to spend money on materials and consumables, and metal ain’t cheap!  What will the C0 be used for?  Plenty of good advice here if you have a particular interest.  We can explain the various work-holding options, and which type of chuck(s) best meet your needs.  Then you can spend wisely.

Newcomers are often keen to be told of particular brands and suppliers providing top quality at knock-down prices.   Not that simple.  Reality is there are “too cheap” tools about, so be wary of ‘bargains’ from fly by night outfits!  You can also buy from industrial suppliers, which I do occasionally, but make sure your pacemaker has a new battery – buying fully specified tools is pricey.    I mostly buy mid-range because they’re good enough for what I do, and only pay more if need be.   A £200 digital caliper is delightfully smooth, and the batteries last longer, but used with care, £6 supermarket cheapies are as accurate, and less upsetting when they get broken!

Sadly we’ve just lost ArcEuro, whose owner did a particularly good job importing hobby suitable Far Eastern tools and supporting customers if anything went wrong.  In my view quality is less important than how the supplier will respond if he sells you a lemon!  Though ArcEuro got a gold-star, other UK suppliers aren’t bad, I don’t have an avoid list!

I’m assuming you’re in the UK, where consumer protection is strong.  Not all countries are equally tough on bad suppliers, so you might have to play by different rules.

Sorry can’t advise on accessories to fit a C0 because I don’t have one.  I had the same problem with my mini-lathe; when I replaced it with a bigger machine, I knew what to buy.

Dave

 

 

I got one of these but practically nothing with it, just the single toolpost holder.

Arceurotrade is gone which I was counting on for tools.

I know that Emco 3&4 M14 parts will fit, but what I could really use is a list of current parts from the likes of Jacobs and Soba to get going.

Looking at Chronos tools is bewildering and I can only guess that a thin chuck is a good idea as the capacity is so small.

Scanning ebay is confusing.  I am looking for a Jacobs M14 tailstock chuck with 1/4”/6mm capacity.  Not even sure of the correct search terms, or there are none.

Four jaw chuck,  ER16 collet chuck, 8mm carbide cutting tools, tool post and holders, and basically all the stuff I have been recommend to get to work in small scales like 2mm ect.

Makes me wonder if I should have gone for the next machine up with lots more tools and parts available.  Thinking perhaps I should trade up before I spend anymore.?

If you have any relevant spare tools I am interested.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

It’s all gone chaps – I was there on Wednesday 22 oct. The end of an Era. Noel.

Ah well, it would have added another hour and a half to my day of driving, so fair enough.

It’s a damn shame Arc EuroTrade couldn’t get a buyer. It’s like hearing your old primary school is no more and a bunch of flats have been built in the site.

Just hope the staff are okay.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Just to highlight something old mart mentioned. There are two verions pof potentiometer (pot) used on this series of lathe. One is the “normal” arrangement of contact open with knob fully counter clockwise (FCCW). The other is switch closed when FCCW.

If (when) the speed control on my SX2LP fails I’d be tempted to use a pot without a switch and add a Start-Stop switch arrangement. This saves having to re-set the speed every time. I’d have a No-Volt Release (NVR) circuit as part of that so it can’t re-start after a power innerruption or E-Stop reset.

Interesting to see the amount of filtering in the machine. I’m nor surprised to see it in a ARC Euro Trade machine but you can see why cheap machines may leave it out. I count 9 inductor and 4 capacitors.

Robert.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Extremely sad to see Arc Euro close.

Came to regard Ketan and the staff as friends, who were always ready to help, and looked forward to visiting, even for small purchases.

Can only express Thanks to Ketan, Ian and all the others for their help and kindness over the years.

Howard

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

It’s the end of an era with Arceurotrade gone, been my go supplier of machines and tooling.

Going to be hard to find a replacement you knew if it came from Arc it would be good.

Thanks Ketan and the team.

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

Thanks, Ian and Jason.

One other question, with the sad demise of Arc Euro Trade, am I right in thinking that spares for these machines can be sourced from Axminster?

Many thanks.

Hi,

Does anyone know what the PG stands for in the Arc Euro Trade Sieg SX2PG Mill?

Many thanks.

[David George 1]

On David George 1 Said:

Try here for beading.

 

WindowBeads.com
Unit 4A
Harpings Rd
Hull
East Yorkshire
HU5 4JF

David

Thanks David. I have already contacted them and the reply was mine is a bead tgay have never seen and so can help.

Some of the short bits I have are stamped on the back which tells me the bead was produced by Plastmo in 2002. Thanks to a few more hours of Google searching I discovered Plastmo were taken over by (I think) euro cell and someone managed to get some old stock of this bead from them – but that was over 10 years ago.

So that’s why I concluded I’m not going to be able to buy replacement beading

Andy

Closing mid October as the owner is retiring. In addition to 75% off remaining stock, if you’re local to Syston, Leics it’s well worth calling in as there’s various unboxed or incomplete items at big reductions and some free stuff such as DROs that will need some attention to get working plus free hard hats! And lots of cheap storage bins of course….

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ketan’s post

I am suprised no one has mentioned this.

At first I thought it was a scam email but now i think it’s genuine.

Today’s final offer is 75% off everything.

David

[George TilleyParticipant @georgetilley96475]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your interest.

Robert. I have ordered a new switch off the internet as they are cheap. Might as well replace it and have a spare if the original is OK.

Keith. I did not realise that. I have ordered a pack of fuses off ebay.

I have also ordered an EMC filter off Arc Euro as it is would be the only item I not have replaced.

Once I have changed them I will be back to report success (hopefully) or otherwise.

Cheers,

Brett