Search Results for 'arc euro'

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I’ve got a VM-B but as I’m venturing into CNC and didn’t want to start mucking around with Myford’s stuff I also got a Super X1 from Arc Eurotrade. 

 

I haven’t started converting it yet but I have used it for some small jobs and it’s pretty good, and for an amazing price.  The articles in MEW recently showed how it could be improved which will at least increase its mass and damping (though not it’s stiffness) so improving finish as long as you take small cuts.  I’m intending to convert it to belt drive as well.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I have an Arc Euro Trade Sieg Mini-Mill – serial number 5!

 

I haven’t had any gear problems, though I had to have the controller  board replaced FOC – but the failure happened because a mounting screw for the controller box came loose and shorted the board. I also had to change the speed control pot – try finding a pot with a normally closed switch! I finally found a company who could custom build me a few thousand, but tehy kindly took pity on me and sent me a free one!

 

When I bought it I got the definite impression they would have rather sold me an X1, but I was sure I wanted the extra capacity. They also said they did certain ‘modifications’ that other sellers did not, but would not reveal what these were… very mystrerious.

 

Main thing is, they no longer stock the X2, but still do the C3 lathe which doesn’t seem to suffer the failures despite essentially similar hardware.

 

All grist to the mill <HEH HEH>!

 

Neil

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Keith,

 

I have broken my gears. I was aware of this problem before I bought it and so I treated it with a certain amount of care. I find it interesting that Arc Euro Trade sell metal gears. Ok they are for the C3 lathe. But why? Somehow I doubt Arc Euro Trade would stock these items unless there was a proven need for them. One final point. When I rang Warco to obtain a replacement set, the storeman offered the opinion that they usually lasted longer than they had with me. This suggests to me that they do indeed break and that I had perhaps been unlucky that they broke so quick.

 

As regards the electronics boards, there do seem to be a number of different power motors around – 350W, 470W, 550W and possibly more. Now it does seem to me that the original version was the 350W board. It also seems logical to me that the higher power motors will require higher power mosfets, so wouldn’t it be logical to uprate them at the same time? Maybe I’m being too naive!

 

You are right about the Z-axis backlash. I forgot about that.

Regards,

 

Peter.

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Hi, Marcus,

 

I would like to add one or two comments to those made by Peter – I have a version of the X2 sold by a company in Germany.

 

 Peter mentions the ‘breaking gear syndrome’ , and I have seen this repeated many times, but never found anyone it has happened to!. I have actually had my machine jam on several occasions while learning how to use it, and never stripped a tooth. Arc Euro Trade stocks spare metal gears for this, and they are not particularly difficult to change. AET also stocks taper roller bearings for this machine (and many other spares), and the these bearings reduced bearing and chatter on my machine. (I have no connection with AET – only as a customer)

 

I have never been too happy with the backlash, particularly one the Z axis, and it is not easy to successfully reduce it. I am currently considering ways to modify this.

In discussion with friends, we have come to realise there are at least three different variations of the electronic controller board. The ‘originals’ seem to suffer from burn out of the driver transistors if the machine is overloaded or stalled. I have repaired one of these several times (same board as the C3 lathe), but now I find it is difficult to get hold of the transistors.  I obtained a spare board from the supplier, and it was a completely different design – this board will withstand the machine being stalled without damage (at least in my experience for up to a minute before I was able to remove the cause of the jam. (this is with a 350W motor)

 

I agree with Peters comments about the slides – I had to clean mine up, but this is not too difficult. I suppose you get what you pay for with these small machines, but I have to say I would not be without mine. They are at least affordable for the average (non-professional) modeller, and with a little work can produce good results. There are many websites and forums (try Yahoo) dealing specifically with these machines, showing practical modifications and improvements that can be made, even to the extent of conversion to CNC operation.

 

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Have a look at this thread on this forum: “Blown X1 Mill speed control”. It has some information which may be of use.

 

Little or no experience of Warco after sales service. When I broke the gear wheels, they posted replacements out immediately. I understand that ArcEuro stopped selling the X2 due to the high failure rate of the electronics board, and it was costing them too much. I understand that Machine Mart have a good spares catalogue, but that they do not sell individual components, just assemblies, ie you could get a new controller board, but not the individual transistors.  The Clarke CMD300, sold by Machine Mart,  looks similar, so they may have spares. Also, a company called Amadeal sells the XJ12-300 which looks to be identical to the MiniMill, so they may have spares.

 

The spindle bearings are ball bearing types. On my machine the lower bearing is a 7206AC whilst the upper bearing is a 6206RZ . (They do look to be the same size.) I understand that changing to taper roller does improve matters, and I suspect that this will probably make it easier when changing the gears. (Especially if my experience with the original VW Beetle front wheel bearings is anything to go by.)

 

I have to say that changing the gears was not perhaps the best thing to do for the bearings. So much so that when it happens again, I will probably change to taper rollers then.

 

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

 

ps I will have a look at the mosfets next time I go into the workshop and see if they do indeed have any numbers on them.

 

 

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 09/03/2010 20:04:47

[MarcuSwedenParticipant @marcusweden]

Thanks for Your answer. I guess I will get about what I pay for.

 

I think the Warco minimill will be what i expect it to be, i dont have high expectations.

 

What I am most afraid of is that the electronic board will brake down and be difficult to repair if the transistors has the labels grinded of.

 

My Chines 500mm lathe has the numbers on the transistors/tyristors grinded of so when it brakes down i dont know what to do , if i had the numbers on the transistors i could easily buy new and exchange the old with new ones.

 

How is Warco when it comes to help the customers with questions after the sale ? Do they have good technical support staff ?I know ArcEurotrade is wery helpful but the dont sell the X2 or similar mill anymore.

 

How is the spindle bearings on the minimill ? on my Chines lathe i had to change the spindle bearings to SKF Taper Rolling Bearing becouse the chines bearings was not so good.

Edited By MarcuSweden on 09/03/2010 17:51:52

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi,

I have a Warco MiniMill. I will tell you what I know, my experiences and  then leave the decision to you. I cannot comment on the Sieg Super X2.

 

The MiniMill is not made by Sieg, although it does use the same basic idea and layout. It does use the same internal gears (see later). My MiniMill was made by Yangzhu Real Bull Machine Tool Co. Ltd. The impression I get is that there are a number of Chinese factories making machine tools to the same basic designs, but with small differences.

 

About my mill.

 

Some of the slides were/are in a very poor state and require work on them to improve them. David White has produced a number of articles in MEW on improving the Sieg X0 which seem equally applicable to the X2 and equivalent. He has also produced an article on the Weiss WMD25LV machine in which there is a photograph of the internal gears. This photo looks to be identical to the MiniMill. White also says that he found lots of casting sand etc on the Weiss. So did I on the MiniMill.

 

The Sieg X2 (350watt motor) is well known for two problems. These are the breakage of the plastic internal gears, and the failure of the electronic control board. I have experienced the gear failure on the MiniMill, but not (yet) any electronic failure, however, the fact that there is a more powerful motor may indicate that the electronics have been uprated and thus eliminated the problem. At least that is what I hope.

 

In respect of the internal gears, these can be difficult to change, however, Arc Euro Trade do a set of  metal gears, supposedly for the Sieg C3 lathe (I think), but advertised by them as suitable for the X2 machine, and I can confirm that they will fit the MiniMill.

Another option to overcome gear breakages is to convert to belt drive. There are kits available which may or may not fit the MiniMill. Claimed advantages are that a higher speed may be obtained and the machine is quieter.

 

On my machine, I could not get the fine vertical movement to work. The handbook didn’t mention it, and did not even have the correct information about switching on. Fortunately, I found a downloadable manual produced by LittleMachineShop.com which explained about the fine vertical movement. I discovered that the fine feed mechanism was binding to such an extent that it was unusable. Careful adjustment made it work.

 

The MiniMill uses a counterbalancing spring to take the weight of the head. On mine the spring has lost some of it’s tension, but that may be because of something I did.

 

I fond the dials difficult to understand. They are not calibrated in anything recognisable, so I made a conversion label which I have stuck to the machine. Also, the variable speed is not calibrated. Again I have made an approximate speed label using a cycle computer to measure the speeds.

 

I suggest you hunt around the forums for the X2. You will find a lot of information on improving the X2 series of mills (which will include the MiniMill) and on setting them up, eg vertical alignment both back to front, side to side, and the alignment of the travelling head. Also information on stiffening the vertical column. David White has a novel method of doing this as well.

 

The Warco MiniMill has a larger table than the Sieg X2.

 

I can’t think of anything else.

 

Good luck in your quest.

 

Peter G. Shaw

 

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Eric, Jeff Dayman had it just about right in his first post.  There is a set of specialist threads specifically known as ME (Model Engineers) threads which have a fixed pitch across all diameters in which they are available.

 

These allow for finer work on small components than the normal imperial threads allowed.  The pitches are 26, 32 and 40 tpi. and are available in a range of diameters.  For example on a short steam gland, say 5/16 diameter using a Whitworth fine you would get very few threads whereas using 32 or 40 tpi would ensure good thread engagement.

 

So if this is the case on the drawings and you see these pitches e.g 3/16 x 32 tpi then the odds are it is an ME thread.  Sets are available from most good tool suppliers who deal with model engineers such as Arc Eurotrade, Chronos and RDG.  Look here for the specs and range available:

 

 

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Standard_Right_Hand_Taps_and_Dies.html

 

Of course American threads are a different thing, but if it is ME threads that are being referred to there is no need to refer to any tables.

 

By the way, you get used to ‘the colonials’ type comments, just ignore them.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi,

The Sealey machine is essentially a Sieg X2. Ok, I’ve no doubt that Sealey will deny it, just as Warco deny that their MiniMill is a X2. Warco is actually correct in that their machine is not made by Sieg, however, it is “strange” that it looks similar to one, has the same facilities as one, and even breaks gears as one.

In fact, it seems as if the same basic design is used by a number of Chinese factories. So, I would suggest that the Sealey may well have the same known problems as the X2, ie a propensity to break gears and a possibly fault prone electronics. Of course, Sealey may be using better components, in which case fair enough.

Now the X2 series of mills can be retrofitted with a belt drive – it may be possible to buy a kit which fits direct, or it may have to be specially made. It all depends on the originating factory. The belt drive allows for higher speeds and is quieter, so I understand.

I note that the Sealey uses a 350W motor. May I point out that Warco and Amadeal supply similar machines with a 550W motor.

Also, the Warco has a larger table than the standard X2. I don’t know about the Sealey.

Finally, have you looked at the ArcEuro X1 machine with the long bed? In terms of size it is only very slightly smaller than the X2 type, hence may do for you. To my mind, though, the motor power at 150W may be a tad small, but then I’ve no experience of it. Having said that, the machine is available at a lot of places so some people must be buying it.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

 

ps. I thought I had better add that I have a Warco MiniMill, so my comments re the gears are based on personal experience. Also, Arc Euro Trade sell replacement METAL gears ostensibly for the C3 lathe I think, but according to them, and to my personal knowledge, identical to the plastic ones used in the X2 and the Warco MiniMill. I should also say that I have not had any problems electronically. Maybe the uprated motor has caused an uprated/improved electronic control.

 

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 07/03/2010 21:26:19

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Hi Tony.

             Any cutter under 10mm or  3/8ths really isn’t worth the bother, as brand new tic N coated centre cutting end mills can be bought for £3.0 from Arch Euro Trade.  12mm cutters are only £4.0   Larger cutters can be worth re-grinding, but in my experience of some forty years in precision engineering, there are cutter grinders and there are cutter grinders.   If the company offers CNC re-grinds all well and good.  Other firms that use hand operated cutter grinders, often work on a piece work basis and some of the results can be a bit grim. 

[Gep EnglerParticipant @gepengler40547]

Hi Marcus,

 

Here, you can find a few pictures of the height gauge I made last year:

http://home.kpn.nl/gep2/Afbeeldingen/Werkplaats/Hoogtemeter1.jpg

http://home.kpn.nl/gep2/Afbeeldingen/Werkplaats/Hoogtemeter3.JPG

http://home.kpn.nl/gep2/Afbeeldingen/Werkplaats/Hoogtemeter4.JPG

Cheap indeed: now and then these digital calipers are here in the shops for about 9 Euros. No Mitutoyo, but good enough for me!

 

Regards from The Netherlands and success with your conversion,

Gep

Homepage: http://home.kpn.nl/gep2/

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Whats the bore of your cutters?

 

A milling arbour should do the job, your size of cutter is no bigger than an involute gear cutter so should be doable

 

Jason

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Graham

I think a Unimat is too small for a Tich and most stationary engines.

A minimum size would really be the C3 Minilathe from Arc Euro Trade or its equivalent.

 

A lot of beginners have made the Tich succesfully although some people say it is too difficult for beginners.

I don’t think it is too difficult especially as you have the book.

You can also ask questions on the forum, perhaps start a dedicated Tich thread.

I have quite a few castings for Tich and hope to make a start on it this year. I am not bothered about pulling lots of people around, I just want to make one for the fun of it.

 

A mill would be useful but I suspect many more Tiches have been made with a vertical slide on the lathe than with a mill.

regard David

 

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

I got a Chronos one and can recommend it- code GEO 1 but Arc Euro also list one except theirs seems to be a hollow square section attached to a handle with diamond on one side of the square bar. Not sure what the benefits of the bar will be ?

 

Having tried 100 grit diamond cup wheels on both steel and carbide they work and give a beauutifully smooth finish but , certainly on HSS , they’re damn slow and heat it up something wrotten. Could be I’m taking too bit a cut mind!

 

The great thing is- no grinding dust- it’s only powdered steel coming off . I tried runnign with a bit of water on the weel to keep things a bit cooler. RDG told me to run em wet and they last longer. Only 1 year inot use but no detectable wear as yet . Then again only just starting to use it as I learn by experimenting.

 

 

Ian

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Jomac/John, are the wheels you looked at resin-bonded wheels or galvanic coated ones? A resin bonded with mesh 200 (according to the table I gave above around  D76) is quite fine, but I think would be ok for end mills. For galvanic coated ones I would consider it coarse! I have the lapping plates from ARC Euro trade with grit 600 and 1200, these are perfect for lathe tools.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello!

 

I made an tool and cutter grinder following the Harold Hall’s book  (see  http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_photo.asp?a=7538&p=132975) and made for it a grinding post and I use in it a cup wheel from Arco Euro Trade.

Not being a professional I’ve not used the T&CG a lot but I am satisfied with it. And in this case with the grinding wheel.

 

 

Regards

Dias Costa

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi,

 

Somewhere I read that Machine Mart, who supply a lot of Clarke stuff, have a very good spares parts catalogue. Perhaps that could be a good place to try.

 

A few thoughts are that the maximum working voltage of the device isn’t high enough. Again I believe I read something about this in conjunction with Arc Euro Trade and the X2 series mills. Perhaps there’s another avenue to explore.

 

Also, what about the power handling capacity?

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Posted by Mark Smith 3 on 30/01/2010 19:08:01:

 I have yet to learn about collets, do these mount directly in the morse taper? I have been trying to make small parts with just the chuck, that is wrong it seems.

Mark

 

There are the collet chuck with morse taper direct mounted to the spindle, to example ER32 Milling Collet Chuck Sets, see this link: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collets-Collet-Chucks/ER32-Collets-Collet-Chucks

 

The collet chuck are true than traditional chuck and are practical if you need to make parts true without adjusting with DTI and 4 jaws chuck. It save much time in working time.

Edited By Jens Eirik Skogstad on 30/01/2010 20:29:51

[wheeltapperParticipant @wheeltapper]

Hi

just had a quick look and Arc-Euro trade have one here.

 

 

I’ll have another look.

Roy

 

edit

Chronos have some here.

 

Edited By David Clark 1 on 27/01/2010 08:19:36

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I don’t think the cross slide is slotted so you would have to cobble up some form of sub-table or drill the topslide. You can but a tee slotted table but it will set you back around £250

 

The later ones were MT5 not sure about the arlier but I suspect they were MT tapered. Make sure it comes with a short MT reducer as that will add to teh cost if you need a new one. ARC Eurotrade do them.

 

Jason

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi,

 

If this turns out to be a duplicate posting, please accept apologies – not sure where the original went.

 

I’m not sure what you mean by “the third main gear in the head.” Do you mean the third set of gears on the intermediate shaft and the mandrel? Because if you do, then Arc Euro Trade do sell metal replacement gears.  (Look under one of the lathe spare parts, C3 I think.) 

 

Like you I have broken these gears, and have put replacement plastic ones in, but this was before I discovered the metal gears. I have bought the metal gears ready for next time, and as far as I can tell they are exact duplicates.

 

Peter G. Shaw

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Ray,

 

Perhaps this is a bit late but if I were just starting I would do as you, except I would miss out the clamping set, they are so easy to make.  Also I would miss out the Boring Bar and Head (- you can make one later if you need it as your skills improve); and parallels ( I use ball race shells and lengths of ground stock and make them as needed.

 

Unlike others, I would buy sets of drills, taps and cutters from the less expensive ranges (Far East probably) that Arc Euro, Chronos or RDG etc sell, but certainly not the Aldi stuff (drills etc).  Buying these, means that you can get going reasonably cheaply and then buy quality tools as you find out what you use most and as they wear out. As a beginner your are likely to make mistakes and it’s better to ruin inexpensive tools rather than the better quality you will buy to replace them as they wear (or break/chip)

 

You will decide what you need most as your interest and skill develops and beginning with a good set of inexpensive tools is not a bad start given the reasonable quality of most Far Eastern products.  In my experience they are not bad at all.  And by the way, it is better in the long term to go metric if you are happy with it as there are less variation of tools to buy (just look at the range of taps you will need for imperial).

Edited By Terryd on 19/01/2010 17:40:23

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Gordon

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk

Under grease and advesives.

I found it here.

regards david

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Arc Euro Trade do a range of cutting lubricants.

regards David

 

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

In addition to my last post.  I should also have said that I wipe the bare metal of the machines with a paper towel and a  little light oil when I leave it (after cleaning) and wipe over before using with a clean one.  Also I make sure that there is never any swarf left, especially ferrous.

 

As an afterthought, would a sacrificial block (eg. zinc), such as is used on ferrous hulled boats, help if bolted to a machine?  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could help to answer that.

 

I also remember that the Arc Eurotrade product I mentioned is called ‘Restore Rust Remover’.