Stainless/silver steel

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I need to harden some steel before I go buying some silver steel at the diameter that I need, I would like to know if Stainless steel can be hardened enough to file against.

The other option would be to case-harden some round steel section for my needs, I already have the powder to do this.

On the other hand, if I order silver steel I would have it in stock for future use.

I do have various sizes already but this one need to be 3/4″

What would you do

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I believe hardening stainless is difficult and process probably depends on the particular type.  OTOH silver steel is relatively easy to harden so I suggest you use that.  Wise to protect the surface against scaling when heating, possibly using a suitable flux, as scaling may affect diameter.  “Stainless” may not be immune to scaling anyway.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Buy some Silver Steel, I always have a stock of many sizes.  Very easy to harden & temper if needed,  as John says if you need to protect the surface use black lead or powdered chalk mixed with meths and painted on. But for most things it’s not necessary.

John

PS how much do you need and where are you ?

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

400 series stainless steels can be quench hardened.

300 series typically hardened by working – they do not quench harden.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Thank you both for the fast response. going by what you both have said I may as well bite the bullet and buy a length I already have quite a bit from 1/2″ diameter down to 1/16″

At least that Wil see me for a while, I have enough stainless if I could have used that, I will just use that for other things.

Luckily, if I order now I will have it for when it is needed considering the Christmas mail.

[David Jupp]

On David Jupp Said:

400 series stainless steels can be quench hardened.

300 series typically hardened by working – they do not quench harden.

Thank you for that, unfortunately I do not know the grades that I have as it was given to me before I started to get involved in Model engineering.

So will use it for jobs that do not need a certain type or grade of stainless

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

400 series will be strongly attracted to a magnet.

Though generally thought to be non-magnetic, 300 series can show slight magnetism.

That may allow you to identify the family of stainless that you have – though there are more exotic types beyond 300 & 400 series.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If by “filing against” you are wanting to make filng buttons then I just use mild steel and no risk of blunting your files on the soft unhardened material.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

for avoiding scale heating the part covered in Borax works for me.

I usually put the part into a metal ‘tray’, then cover with a paste made from borax and meths.

I have a small enamelling kiln that I use for heat treating, but just heat and quench as usual.

The borax doesn’t seem to affect the hardening, and the glassy residue scrapes off fairly easily afterwards.

 

Dave

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

If by “filing against” you are wanting to make filng buttons then I just use mild steel and no risk of blunting your files on the soft unhardened material.

Yes it will be used for that as well as other jobs. Thank you all the same

On Dave S Said:

for avoiding scale heating the part covered in Borax works for me.

I usually put the part into a metal ‘tray’, then cover with a paste made from borax and meths.

I have a small enamelling kiln that I use for heat treating, but just heat and quench as usual.

The borax doesn’t seem to affect the hardening, and the glassy residue scrapes off fairly easily afterwards.

 

Dave

I have seen this method used by various people where did you get the foil from to make those trays(I use the word foil in a loose manner)

[Julie AnnParticipant @julieann]

I agree with Jason, for filing buttons always use unhardened mild steel. The buttons are sacrificial.

The best thing you can do with the stainless steel is recycle it. You don’t know what it is so why waste time with a material that may well be a pig to machine.

Julie

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, 400 series S/S The difference is, that these are martensitic stainless steels.

Regards Nick.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

IIRC it’s from the side of a microwave oven we used to have. It died, but I salvaged the stainless cover…

Any thinish metal sheet that will stand the temp will do, doesn’t have to be stainless. The trays are reusable to an extent, but I considerer them disposable – as in when they look dodgy Ill just make some new ones.

The corners are just folded up and round – so the net is a simple rectangle.

Dave

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

@ Dalboy,

Is there any particular reason you didn’t explain what you required the metal for?

 

[Dave S]

On Dave S Said:

for avoiding scale heating the part covered in Borax works for me.

I usually put the part into a metal ‘tray’, then cover with a paste made from borax and meths.

 

 

Dave

It’s a strange thing about Borax. I wanted some about 15 years ago and couldn’t find any for sale over here. I did though manage to add a tin of it to an order for some other items from Germany.

A more recent search came up with this.

https://www.baldwins.co.uk/baldwins-borax-powder?msclkid=aa8d7b5bef751b750292121a4cc82c7c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=S%20-%20Search%20-%20Best%20Seller&utm_term=Borax%20powder%20500g&utm_content=Borax%20Powder#

And this???

https://homeownercosts.co.uk/borax-banned-uk/

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

You can still purchase borax from amazon.co.uk

 

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

It would seem borax is banned as a cleaning agent in the UK, but readily available for other purposes (including, bizarrely, as an additive for caviar).

It isn’t easy to find any definitive answers to the status of borax here even on the ECHA (European Chemicals Agency) website – this article explores the subject:

Is Borax Safe or Toxic? Why Is Borax Banned In U.K.?

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Same here, have never seen borax sold ever. I actually got a few kilo for free from a local knife smith. I asked if I could buy some, but he said he didn’t need it anymore and it was a hassle to dispose of it. I actually got a half joking offer from my dentist for a few pounds of pure mercury when I think about it, again something he’s sitting on because it’s so expensive to dispose off  🙂

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

I bought a kilo of borax a few months ago: https://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Borax-Powder-1kg-prcode-998-116;jsessionid=32253D099919851230A7B4A8F183E0DB#description

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

Knife makers often wrap knives in stainless steel foil to protect it during heat treat.

[HuubParticipant @huub]

C45 steel is (in the netherlands) “easy” to get and can be hardened like silver steel, quench in water. After hardening, silver steel is a bit harder than C45.

There are tool steel types than are also easy to harden by quenching in water or oil, depending on the type.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

In a slight digression … I am relieved to see that Borax Cones are still widely available in the U.K.

MichaelG.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Soft soap, the potassium based stuff, is a recommended substance for reducing scaling of steel when hardening. It’s also suggested that the carbon content improves surface hardness.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Looks like no-one informed HD Chemicals of the Ban !

https://shop.hdchemicals.co.uk/blogs/news/borax-powder-10-powerful-household-uses?srsltid=AfmBOoqIsu8KUthWCkBIb9AddDg_meLY67sqWuUh8KH_JBcDLroSx0tB

MichaelG.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

As far as I can tell there is no ban on Borax, so I suspect that is internet hype.

It is not on the restricted SVHC list as far as I can find. It is on the unrestricted 2025 reach candidates list, but that doesn’t mean its restricted, just that its in the list of substances of concern.

Information is available here:

https://chem.echa.europa.eu/100.129.152/overview?searchText=1303-96-4

Dave

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