Bridgeport Series 1 CNC

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

Hello,

I have in my sights a Bridgeport Series 1 CNC milling machine as pictured.

There appears to be no manual way of moving the quill.

If the software or electrics etc is not working or give up in the future and I am unable to fix them, will this be a large problem?

Being unable to move the quill manually sounds like a non starter.

Is it possible to put a manual handle on the machine to move the quill (as a kit or something)?

The machine is run from a PC. I have yet to find out what software is running the machine. While computers are not

new to me, running CNC machines is new to me. What type of software would be controlling the machine can anyone guess?

 

I am new to the forum.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Tom

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

Having difficulty attaching picture

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think Interact was the name and originally use BOSS but Protrack sounds familiar

There are cetrainly members here who are quite happy using mills with no quill, just cranking the knee up and down when needed. Myself as I do allmost all my drilling on teh mill too would miss not having a quill.

I’m not sure that even had a quill, probably just ran the spindle in the head for rigidity so adding a handle won’t work. Edit. Looks like X axis was with a ball nut driven quill and the table was not under CNC control in Z so may be another limiting factor.

 

PS Photo not now showing.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bridgeport Series 1 CNC 1970s Catalog

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

From the stepper motor on the quill drive that would have had a Boss control originally.

Retrofitted a lot of those in the mid to late 80s – replaced the steppers with SEM DC servo motors, 3 axis  Indramat amplifier & the control with a Heidenhain TNC145/150/151/155. IIRC Bridgeport offered them later with TNC131/135 point-to-point controls or the TNC145 2 1/2D contouring control.

IIRC they quill drive uses an “odd” hollow ballscrew attached to the top of the quill, with a timing belt driven rotating nut arrangement. The spindle drive shaft ran down the middle of the hollow screw. Good from the POV that the thrust on the quill was along it’s axis, not offset. Not good from a replacement of old bespoke hardware POV

Protorack was a later system, originally brought into the UK by XYZ Machine Tools on Taiwanese carcasses. Don’t recall seeing it on Bridgeports, which were mainly Heidenhain.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

There is no way of driving the machine manually. Everything depends on the CNC control and motor drives operating correctly.

Depending on what has been used for the PC conversion there may be facilities for driving via a pendant MPG system so the machine goes to where you tell it.

Still seems to have its original motors and drives which is worry as these are now very old and not exactly compatible with the modern way of doing things. As Ex-contributor says the usual upgrade path was to replace drivers, motors and control as one package. Expensive then and now, but reliably effective.

You must verify that the PC based conversion has been properly done and all works as it should. A fair few amateur attempts got abandoned part way through. If it’s an older, professional conversion the software is unlikely to be user friendly. No way round learning things properly.

Clive

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

Hello,

Thanks for replys.

I attach a picture of another BridgePort Interect series 1 milling machine.

Where do i start???

 

I have been looking into obtaining diagrams in a .svg (scalable vector graphics) format using inkscape (free).

Then running the .svg file through a post processor like GaterCAM (40 dollars or so from here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/376775357212  ).

I then input this G CODE into the interact and off I go?

How do you get G CODE from a pc into the CNC INTERACT controller?

Is that basically how it works?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

 

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Check if that software outputs suitable G-code. It says it is intende dfor woodworking which is likely to be modern gantry type router machines so the code may need some manual tweaking to work with an older system.

[Les RileyParticipant @lesriley75593]

I have a machine similar to your second photo. It originally worked on Heidenhain code and was not so easy to use as G code. They are supposed to work on G code as an alternative but mine didn’t seem interested.

I used CamBam software to create the code then used a post processor for the Heidenhain code. The processor was found on the CamBam forum by ‘Ade’.

My screen packed up and it was cheaper to update the whole machine to Mach 3 and now runs straightforward G code, but that’s another story…

Good accurate and solid machines.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Don’t underestimate the learning curve involved in getting up to speed with a CNC machine. There is a lot to take in and understand before you can use it whether simple “pseudo-manual” control via an MPG pendant, G-Code input or full on direct from CAD file.

Trying to learn on a complicated old school machine with an ageing, possibly flakey, control set-up or knife and fork conversion without proper documentation isn’t going to help. As was these old machines were made to be used by specialists who had the training to handle them helped by the rather sketchy onscreen data. It’s not like a modern 3D printer set-up where all the complicated software side not only (mostly) just works but also gives you pretty pictures. Don’t forget that most of the work these old machines were intended to do was rather simple by modern standards. The sort of work that Jason routinely does would have been assigned to the “best guy”.

If you are going to do something like this make sure you have the dedication to see it through and access to all the information you will need. People here will help if they can but, frankly it’s not the sort of thing many of us do. RE-vitalising and old Prototrak or Series 1 clone with Animal or similar control is probably an easier way.

Ages ago I spent far too much on a Taig CNC mill with software and a training program intending to get up to speed with CNC. Taig was supposed to be a reliable, sorted Mach 3 install and software cost was supposed to include a training course. I got neither. The Mach 3 install didn’t really work and the software trying didn’t materialise. So i decided tha the game wasn’t worth the candle. The machine still sits in disgrace on the corner of the bench.

It’s a pity nobody has come up with a CNC drive system working in vector space as, essentially, a 3D printer running backwards. Retrofits would be vastly easier.

Clive

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

 

Thanks for replys.

The more I hear the less enthusastic  I am about these machines. I have too simplistic of an attitude towards the

controllers/software.

Had not realized that the GaterCAM (post processor) was a woodwork thing. Perhaps it would do the job perhaps not.

I am going to see the machine tomorrow. Perhaps they will give me the lend of the ‘best guy’ for a month!!!

The fact that the machine is not all overrided by manual contolls (you cannot move the quill with a handle) shuts down another avenue to use the machine if the controlls could not be used.

I have no idea what the machine will cost. £1200 maybe, it could be 5K.

I would presume all the manuals would be with it but are the controller/software manuals east to follow and can I master them.

I have visions of ‘bullying’ the machine into submission as I am good (at least I think!) at mastering stuff like this but if things are ‘flakey’ (as said above) it would be very very difficult. By ‘flakey’ I presume you mean not working correctly or not working the way you expecte it or both or intermittent faults/farts.

 

Thanks for your time.

Tom

 

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I just looked at that Gator Cam and for $40 it seems a bit basic plus you then need to design in something else and then use another free program to view the toolpaths which is all a bit long winded.

Why not try something like the free vesion of Fusion360 where you can do the design, CAM, simulations and post process the g-code all in one place. If you have to make a small alteration to the design it is carried through in F360, that won’t be the case using 3 diferent sets of software as you will have to alterthe inscape file then the gator, then check paths.

I expect there are a lot more machines listed in F360s post processor than Gator which may reduce any manual tweaking needed to get th eold software to work.

Just like the demo video of the Inkscape + Gator + Camotics it can all be done in F360 for free as below

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

This one seems to have had all the hard work done for you at around £1250 :-

E-Bay Item 267599569686

For what it would likely cost to buy a mill and fix everything with modern stuff you can get a perfectly adequate, more modern, professional machine ready to go. Such as :-

E-Bay Item 317906414980

Hass TM1 for £5,500

Gate CNC version machines on Bridgeport 1 clone chassis with Anilam controls seem to go for very low prices.

Clive

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Not all Heidenhain controls on Bridgeports had the ability to change to ISO programming – IIRC the TNC150 was the first to have the facility & the TNC151/155 were the first to have drip-feed capability from an external source. Drip feeding was desirable for large complex files, as the standard maximum program length in memory on that vintage of controls was 1000 blocks (memory on some could hold up to 3000 blocks, but maximum single program was still 1000).

The ISO option was a bit of a kludge, as the controls were natively “Conversational” – that was Heidenhain’s USP after all & IIRC the controls internally converted the ISO files to Conversational before execution. The ISO files were just a G Code interpretation of a Conversational “block”

This wasn’t an issue for most users, as these controls were typically programmed manually at the machine by the operator, not fed remotely with CAM generated files. Last employer had 6 Heidenhain controlled milling machines and one natively ISO (Mitsubishi control) & the ISO machine was very rarely used. The operators could program in ISO (manually, long hand) but Conversational was just easier. Reality is that many industrial operations are not complex 3D contouring features & conversational programming can cope fine with 2D contouring, drilling, tapping etc.

Of the two Ebay items that Clive linked to – the “converted” one has a real rat’s nest installation for the “update” – may well work, but I wouldn’t fancy going in to that mess to fault find it. And I have always been wary of Haas machines because they are a closed eco-system – everything on them is Haas made (control, drives, motors – everything AFAIK) which means they have a monopoly on parts supply. Same goes for Hurco & Mazak. There are detractors of Haas capabilities in an industrial environment, but a hobby user would likely not push one hard enough to find it’s limitations. What may matter more is that at least some smaller models were limited in clearance between spindle nose & table – one of my old customers (a university workshop) had had one donated & when I asked how it performed was told thay hadn’t used it as by the time a tool was put in the spindle and vice on the table there wasn’t enough room left for a meaningful part.

Gate machines were a good carcass – Spanish Anayak machines. Ajax Bridegport clones were Spanish Lagun carcasses & Matchmaker were Japanese Shizuokas. Don’t know what the repair situation would be on the old Anilam Crusaders, but Anilam were taken over by Heidenhain & Heidenhain can’t get the bits to repair some faults on the controls that were fitted to Bridegports so I would not be too hopeful of support. But this stuff is 40+ years old now, so hardly a suprise !

Nigel B

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

 

Hello,

I am now the proud (I hope) owner of the Bridgeport Interact 1 shown above.

I have to transport it home. I am going to use a car transporter.

Any hints on doing this job.

I presume you cannot ‘turn the head down’ like you do on ‘ordinary’ Bridgeport millers like in this video.

Picture grab below:

There is a lifting loop on the top of the Interact. Can you lift the whole machine with that loop.

I think its only for lifting off the head?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

[Les RileyParticipant @lesriley75593]

There is a threaded hole on top for an eyebolt. You can lift the whole machine with it.

The only thing I had to remove was the quill feed motor to get the machine under my garage door lintel.

The rest of the head is one big fixed lump.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Tom

You are a braver man than I. Good luck, hope it all works out well for you.

Clive

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

 

The purchasing bit is the easy bit.

Fools charge in where Angels fear to tread etc etc etc.

It cost a total of £550. The screen is a bit faded and will need replacing (TNC 150). But I think it’s OK otherwise. Only time will tell.

There is some tooling with it including a dividing head + a computer (old PC) with a TNC matchmaker data switch.

(don’t know what that is).

I have got the lend of a 5 by 8 foot 2 axle trailer. It will be a slow careful haul. The thing looks and balances like a Moai (Easter Island) wearing a ballot dancers skirt.

 

Tom

 

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Did you think of just hiring a professional machine mover?

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

 

I would imagine that would cost the price I paid for the machine.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

But a lot safer and insured.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I’m sure he’ll take donations if you have too much money on hand…

[tomcncParticipant @tomcnc]

 

Bridgeport interact Series 1 Mark 2 now home still in one piece. I had a job getting it lifted off the trailer. Got there eventually.

Had to take off the quill motor to allow me to lift as it was sticking up in the way.

It did not balance too badly on the 6 by 8 ft trailer. I put the knee at its lowest.

It came with a great big low profile vice and a dividing head and some cutting tools.

If I were to completely convert the controls to something modern where can I purchase the new stepper motors and controller. Do I need new movement sensing elements (or whatever they are called).

Will need a much bigger lifting machine to get it into its permanent home as it is a low shed.

It has a TNC 150 controller. Have not fired up anything yet. I have a lot of reading up to do.

 

TCNC

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppose the question is what do you intend using it for? May not need an upgrade if just doing basic 2D stuff.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Back to the very initial question of how to move the quill – that big finned thing on the left of the head seems to be the Z stepper so just go in there. The box part underneath it probably just covers the belt drive so you could put a handle straight on the pulley.

Looking at the catalogue previously linked – did you get a paper tape drive with it? Wish I’d hung on to my teletype. I can remember my father reading telex messages straight off the tape hole pattern as it was the only long distance communication in Africa in the ’60s.

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