Plug in Solar

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The Companies House information for Arceio is an interesting read. They are less than 2 years old for a start. I can’t find any information on number of employees.

Robert

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I know nothing of their technical competence, but they have mastered management babble.

We used to play b*llsh*t bingo during monthly briefings at work. If you can’t express yourself clearly using normal English words in their normal usage, then you probably don’t know what you’re talking about

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Robert

I agree about the company. They have an attractive website short on details. The company house details shows just one owner/ director and 2 resigned directors.

I would have hoped they would have used a reputable test house.

Stuart

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Arceio did not claim to have tested anything. Nor does the other stuff quoted tell us what they really do.

Their Pseuds’ Corner rhubarb quoted by Michael says they “led” the study, which can cover merely asking a real research company to do the real work. Then adding a “handling fee” as middle-men.

Who are the “someone”, though?

Oh that governments or agencies would ensure their contractors really can and do perform the wanted work themselves!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I’d rather the civil service employed competent people and didn’t outsource everything

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The Arceio contract should have finished yesterday

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/066722-2025#:~:text=Description.%20The%20objective%20of%20this%20study%20is,for%20plug%2Din%20solar%20PV%20in%20the%20UK

I wonder when the results will be published

MichaelG.

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[IanT]

On IanT Said:

I think my views on Solar (in the UK) were somewhat reinforced after watching this YT from Harry’s Farm.

Harry’s Farm – Solar & Wind 

Even if I were convinced about Solar’s viability in the Uk, I’m not sure I’m going to be around long enough to get any “pay-back” from the money spent. If I were to make an investment, I think I might be tempted to skip the ‘Solar’ part (especially on the roof) and just have a battery installed outside, charging it “off-peak” or whatever that’s called these days.

A small ‘plug-in’ panel sounded tempting (to give back-ground heat to my new [as yet unbuilt] shed) but given Harry’s thoughts above, maybe the money would be better just going towards a battery…

Anyway – this idea of ‘portable’ panels still seems a bit ‘Wait & See’ at the moment..

Regards,

 

IanT

You might want to watch some of the videos from Haxby Shed about his solar panel/battery installation. It’s got some great information.

(Paul’s YouTube channel is definitely one to be recommended, his series covering the restoration of his Harrison Mill is a great watch)

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Yes recently been looking at these plug in solar panels albeit they are not yet allowed in the UK, mid 2026 apparently.

So far not very impressed to be honest.

Recently had a guy stop me in a shopping centre promoting air source heat pumps, again did a bit of research, this apparently showed that for our circumstances, oil boiler (no gas mains) then our cost differential would be in the negative. We have a combi boiler so do not have a HW cylinder, new one required plus any uprating of insulation, radiators etc. This is one of those things where a hundred googles would probably give you a hundred answers. My biggest quandary is an imponderable one, what will the government do in the future with types of promotion with what fuel, what taxes, you can guarantee that if there is a solution to cheaper energy, loss of revenue will have to be compensated for somewhere.

Don’t want to go there anymore as this is really more of a technical issue that I am raising.

I am really interested in ‘proper’ solar panels, several relatives have gone this route (not directly related to house heating of course) the figures they have showed me are really impressive as far as running costs are concerned, this is with a lot of panels (about 16 I think) plus 10kw of battery storage.

Sadly, ignoring cost for the moment, my house is a dormer type so very restricted on roof space, I do have a large garage (sorry workshop) but with a flat roof but this adds even more installation cost.

I’ve got a similar conundrum with my car which is a hybrid (not plug in) due for final PCP payment in July, do I hand over a load of dosh and keep it or part X it, for what, another hybrid, electric? again with all the unknowns of future costs, penalties taxes. Oh for the good old days where you bought a car taxed and insured it and stuck petrol in it occasionaly.

Bill D.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gusbartholomew_the-middle-of-lidl-gb-is-about-to-sell-solar-activity-7444654839944400896-MGwL

MichaelG.

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Edit: it appears that the decision has been made … although not properly disseminated …are we surprised ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-make-plug-in-solar-available-within-months

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is the nearest I have found to a clear statement.

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MichaelG.

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Ref.

https://electrical.theiet.org/amendment-4-updates-to-18th-edition

https://connections.nationalgrid.co.uk/get-connected/solar-and-wind/micro-generation-single-g98/

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I notice there were no cheery comments from the power stations or National Grid. The current grid design cannot operate with large amounts of locally generated power. It can become unstable. And of course the solar won’t be helping much midwinter when you have the heating on. We urgently need new nuclear power or (probably unfeasibly at the moment) large amounts of battery storage. Oh and we are alreading seeing fires from faulty solar installations on roofs.

 

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

I notice there were no cheery comments from the power stations or National Grid. The current grid design cannot operate with large amounts of locally generated power. It can become unstable. And of course the solar won’t be helping much midwinter when you have the heating on. We urgently need new nuclear power or (probably unfeasibly at the moment) large amounts of battery storage. Oh and we are alreading seeing fires from faulty solar installations on roofs.

 

Which is why I invested in micro-inverters.  No high DC high power voltages on my roof.  No string inverter running with a several hundred volts DC connections.  They may be slightly less efficient and slightly more expensive, but they do have the advantage re shading-reduction issues with solar installations.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

FYI there is a .series on BBC radio 4 currently at episode 3 called “Evan Davis’s Heat Pump Challenge” discussing the subject. I think in Ep2 the topic of grid load is covered. It seems likely they will follow up with topics of solar and battery in due course.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

My first tentative step was to buy one of these from ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/197477919467

With the discount code it was only £28.11

… has to be worth playing-with at that price !

MichaelG.

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

I notice there were no cheery comments from the power stations or National Grid. The current grid design cannot operate with large amounts of locally generated power. It can become unstable. And of course the solar won’t be helping much midwinter when you have the heating on. We urgently need new nuclear power or (probably unfeasibly at the moment) large amounts of battery storage. Oh and we are alreading seeing fires from faulty solar installations on roofs.

 

Which is why I invested in micro-inverters.  No high DC high power voltages on my roof.  No string inverter running with a several hundred volts DC connections.  They may be slightly less efficient and slightly more expensive, but they do have the advantage re shading-reduction issues with solar installations.

There is an issue with a lot of micro-inverter or optimsers installations causing radio interference. Even if the inverters are compliant (the standards don’t adequately cover this) often installers don’t follow the correct installation instructions / guidance.
I’ve not seen any technical details of the roof fires so can’t comment if micro-inverters / optimisers were in vlved or would reduce the risk of fire.

Robert.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My view is this:  Which is more likely to cause a fire on a roof?

60V (or 72V) DC solar with just a pair of MC4 connectors – and thereafter the usual mains AC voltage at less than 2A

or

Several hundred volts DC @ up to 6A, all the way across the roof with as many as 16 high voltage DC connections via MC4 connectors, then down to an inverter with several hundred volts DC input to the inverter which then converts the power to mains supply.

I know which I consider the safer option, regarding fire risk on the roof.

Anyone think different?

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I would be betting the roof fires stem from substandard connectors on either the panels or the cable.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

A word of warning from Aunty Google …

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MichaelG.

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

My view is this:  Which is more likely to cause a fire on a roof?

60V (or 72V) DC solar with just a pair of MC4 connectors – and thereafter the usual mains AC voltage at less than 2A

or

Several hundred volts DC @ up to 6A, all the way across the roof with as many as 16 high voltage DC connections via MC4 connectors, then down to an inverter with several hundred volts DC input to the inverter which then converts the power to mains supply.

I know which I consider the safer option, regarding fire risk on the roof.

Anyone think different?

Impossible to say which is more likely to cause a fire, you are comparing apples and oranges.
In terms of classical reliability analysis the micro inverter configuration will be less reliable purely becuse it has more components and connections.
I’m not aware of the exact failure mechanisim(s) involved in the fires but either insulation failure (arcing, typically voltage driven) or poor contact (I2R heating current driven) can cause a fire.

Robert.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

 

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

I recently heard from a member of my local ME society about a factory roof fire that started in the PV panels. He told me that, according to the fire brigade, it was due to a build-up of seagull droppings on electrical connections. Plausible? Don’t know.

I’m due to have PV panels installed shortly and have specified bird protection that at least stops them getting underneath the panels. Given the weird habits of local seagulls (a couple of years ago we had at least one randomly attacking our kitchen windows for no obvious reason, even when they had to force their way through the wire “seagull preventers” I had installed), all bets are off!

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Pigeons love to hide underneath the panels too.

 

Seagull poop is incredibly corrosive.

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

What maintenance are they talking about here for micro inverters?

 

https://powmr.com/blogs/news/string-inverter-vs-microinverter?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22069515311&gbraid=0AAAAAqe8Yhln5iJw3DBO4cLwnHLmAnyrG&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyr3OBhD0ARIsALlo-Ol2kxNLkAZH0XPvmAbp6d50H38vMHQ8SubJF9Kuqn5R0FRaEbNzE4caArcbEALw_wcB

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