Sieg C0 tools

[Brainsparks30Participant @brainsparks30]

I got one of these but practically nothing with it, just the single toolpost holder.

Arceurotrade is gone which I was counting on for tools.

I know that Emco 3&4 M14 parts will fit, but what I could really use is a list of current parts from the likes of Jacobs and Soba to get going.

Looking at Chronos tools is bewildering and I can only guess that a thin chuck is a good idea as the capacity is so small.

Scanning ebay is confusing.  I am looking for a Jacobs M14 tailstock chuck with 1/4”/6mm capacity.  Not even sure of the correct search terms, or there are none.

Four jaw chuck,  ER16 collet chuck, 8mm carbide cutting tools, tool post and holders, and basically all the stuff I have been recommend to get to work in small scales like 2mm ect.

Makes me wonder if I should have gone for the next machine up with lots more tools and parts available.  Thinking perhaps I should trade up before I spend anymore.?

If you have any relevant spare tools I am interested.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This ebay site might be of interest:

https://www.ebay.com/str/anruimachine/Mini-Lathe-Parts/_i.html

… basically because they have decent diagrams of the SIEG parts

MichaelG.

.

Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354575759597

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, there are a few spare items at Axminster Tools for the C0 lathe.

Regards Nick.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Axeminster recently told me they stock a lot of spares that are common with the Arc mills/lathes. They just don’t show them all on the their website.

A phone call to them is required to check if they can help with a particular spare.

A couple of Arc’s many strengths were they were a one-stop-shop and the website gave detailed info on everything they sold.

Ches

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

My Unimat drill chuck is a rohm item.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Sherline do some of their chucks with the M14 x 1 thread so worth looking there for a 4-jaw though a bit more than you may have paid for the lathe!

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Most M14x1 threaded accessories will fit. eBay is a good place to look.

[Brainsparks30Participant @brainsparks30]

Slowly and painfully discovering some of the tools out there. It helps if you know what your looking for and the correct search description.  I find more useful stuff suggested later by the robots, than the search itself!

This seller makes his own tools like this collet set, which looks ok, says the spring bushings are Chinese. Is the run out tolerance of 0.00 – 0.02mm good? :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365725044485

and the quick change toolpost:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365536106525

Buying cheap and buying twice is a good old adage, but I ought to know what cheap is for lathe tools first.  I have heard of some good names like Starret, and awful like Sealy.

The Sherline chucks look pretty good, you can have one built to spec.

I have not been able to find a 1/4” tailstock chuck with a 14×1 thread, only the larger chucks.  I suppose its possible to use the larger and put in a minichuck.?

Getting there!

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

0.02mm is at the upper end of runout and what you might expect from budget Chinese collets. 0.008mm would be a better figure and they should not cost the earth.

You might find a 0-8mm drill chuck which wa sthe standard size for the Emco Unimat 3 but I would not go much larger than that, when I was using my U3 anything larger I bored . It is the m14x1 mount that is the harder thing to find. I would also avoid ones that are threaded something else and sold with a M14 adaptor as that increases the length which you don’t have much of between ctrs anyway.

[Brainsparks30]

On Brainsparks30 Said:

…

Buying cheap and buying twice is a good old adage, but I ought to know what cheap is for lathe tools first.  I have heard of some good names like Starret, and awful like Sealy.

The Sherline chucks look pretty good, you can have one built to spec.

…

Getting there!

 

Being cheap and buying twice is dubious advice, so don’t take this old saw too seriously!  It dates from a time when good tools were expensive, and times have changed.  Modern manufacturing focusses on value for money and fit for purpose, not the best irrespective of cost.  Plenty of mid-range tools about: not industrial grade, but plenty good enough for moderate use, and cheap enough to replace when they wear out.

Excellent ways of wasting money include:

1. Buying by brand-name only to discover you’re paying for the label,
2. Buying brand-name only to find that the original company went bust in 1968, and that the current owner does not meet the original spec.   The quality justifies the brand, not the other way round.
3. Buying second-hand without checking condition.  Condition depends on history, not how good it was when new.
4. Expecting top-end tools to improve ordinary or worn lathes.  A C0 isn’t top-end, it is what it is. Kitting one out with expensive accessories like hand-built chucks is questionable!  The C0 isn’t a good place to start if you really need the best.  They work well enough with affordable accessories.  They’re a bit clunky for clockmaking, and a tad small for general purpose, but do a good job between those sectors.   A couple of model railway friends had them – small, clean and quiet enough to use in the house.
5. Expensive tools often pay for themselves by saving time,  But a skilled machinist can get equivalent results from lesser tooling, it just takes longer.  Are you a commercial organisation working against the clock, or a hobbyist developing skills?  If the latter, buy mid range.
6. The relative cost of tools has dropped enormously, so it’s not the end of the world if stuff has to be replaced.
7. Expensive tools may last longer than you.  How long do you expect to live?
8. Seeing tools as an investment could be a bad mistake.  When the time comes, the workshop might end up in a skip, or be bought as house-clearance…
9. Not buying tools to fulfil a particular need.   Might have chosen the wrong lathe, in which case unwise to rush to buy all the accessories!  The other approach is to buy when needed, which also derisks accidentally ordering a lorry-load of stuff that doesn’t fit.  Far better to think about the requirement and buy tools that meet it.  Don’t mindlessly follow internet advice, or that from chaps who might have completely different needs, be out-of-date, or a racist!  It’s your money that will be wasted, not theirs.
10. Wanting rather than needing. (Not forbidden because it’s a hobby!)
11. Feeling good because it’s “reassuringly expensive”.

I’ve often ignored the “buy cheap, buy twice” warning and never regretted it.  Using a pair of pliers bought 57 years ago at the moment, despite an elderly man insisting they wouldn’t last.  He was wrong!.  Though he meant well, repeating time-expired dogma isn’t good advice. Unless you have an unlimited budget.  I prefer to think.

Most of us have a budget though.  The lathe and accessories are the tip of an iceberg.  You have to spend money on materials and consumables, and metal ain’t cheap!  What will the C0 be used for?  Plenty of good advice here if you have a particular interest.  We can explain the various work-holding options, and which type of chuck(s) best meet your needs.  Then you can spend wisely.

Newcomers are often keen to be told of particular brands and suppliers providing top quality at knock-down prices.   Not that simple.  Reality is there are “too cheap” tools about, so be wary of ‘bargains’ from fly by night outfits!  You can also buy from industrial suppliers, which I do occasionally, but make sure your pacemaker has a new battery – buying fully specified tools is pricey.    I mostly buy mid-range because they’re good enough for what I do, and only pay more if need be.   A £200 digital caliper is delightfully smooth, and the batteries last longer, but used with care, £6 supermarket cheapies are as accurate, and less upsetting when they get broken!

Sadly we’ve just lost ArcEuro, whose owner did a particularly good job importing hobby suitable Far Eastern tools and supporting customers if anything went wrong.  In my view quality is less important than how the supplier will respond if he sells you a lemon!  Though ArcEuro got a gold-star, other UK suppliers aren’t bad, I don’t have an avoid list!

I’m assuming you’re in the UK, where consumer protection is strong.  Not all countries are equally tough on bad suppliers, so you might have to play by different rules.

Sorry can’t advise on accessories to fit a C0 because I don’t have one.  I had the same problem with my mini-lathe; when I replaced it with a bigger machine, I knew what to buy.

Dave

 

 

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Just out of interest, what tailstock fitting does the C0 have?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Straight bore like the U3 so you can’t get the grip to use the bore to stop a drill chuck on an arbor from rotating. really only holds a ctr as that is just getting pushed into the hole and no real turning force.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the last catalogue that Arc had the C0 lathe, and accessories was No. 9, which shows both the screw on chuck and the push in tailstock centre.

Regards Nick.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The C0 catalogue page posted by Nicolas is an excellent steer!   Few observations:

A is a Fixed Steady, used to support work that sticks out further from the chuck (or collet) more than, say, 3x diameter. Not needed if you never turn long objects!  Valuable if you do.  Not shown is a travelling steady, which moves with the tool-post supporting the work close to the cutter.  I find a travelling steady more useful.

F is a a Live Centre, used to support the end of long objects.  The point sits in a dimple, made with a centre-drill.   Both worth owning.

G is a hand-rest, useful for turning wood and graving.  Graving is a clockmaker technique.   Otherwise rarely needed.

H is a faceplate.  Used to hold work too big for a chuck, and work that’s positioned off-centre.  Needs nuts, bolts and clamps.  Rarely use mine, but good to have when needed.

J collet chucks.  Collets are an alternative to a 3 or 4  jaw chuck.  A collet set is needed   They allow accurate quick change resetting, which is handy for certain jobs.   3-jaw chucks are quick, but don’t reset accurately.  Expensive 3-jaws do better, but…  4-jaw chucks can be reset accurately, but need a DTI and stand, and resetting is slow.  If only one was allowed, it’s the 4-jaw.  With practice they can be set up fairly quickly.   Lots of practice!

K is a set of HSS cutters.   Folk who know what they’re doing don’t buy them because not all the tools are useful.   But they suit beginners very well – learn by trying them.  A grinder with a grey wheel is needed to sharpen them.  You might prefer carbide inserts isntead.

N Parting-Off is difficult on small lathes, so you might prefer to hacksaw and face-off.

O is a set of carbide cutters.  One booby trap is they may be supplied unsharpened.   A grinder with a Green wheel is needed.  I don’t find them useful.   I’m 80-90% carbide inserts, supplemented by HSS.  The combination covers most requirements.

Buy some books.   Sparey’s “The Amateur’s Lathe” is excellent, and others recommend South Bend’s “How to Run a Lathe”.   The Workshop Practice Series has many good booklets.  Also read the magazine!  The articles often cover methods and materials.

Dave

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Sorry Dave but if you rarely use a graver then you are missing something.

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