Plug in Solar

[Mark Rand]

On Mark Rand Said:

You think that a country of 1.4 billion people, with the world’s largest GDP (PPP basis), that makes almost all of the consumer electronics that we use, suddenly can’t make a safe grid tied inverter, when they’ve been making ones approved for UK, EU and US installation for a couple of decades?

Yes granted, but the grid tied inverters you are referring to are permanent installations not terminating in a UK suicide lead plug, with protecting electronics manufactured to consumer level.

(  A suicide lead is a dangerous method of connecting a generator to house electrics – a flexible cable with a plug top at each end)

 

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Is it even possible to run a local power source without disconnecting the grid? It goes both ways, you know. Unless the break is between you and the grid you’ll be trying to power all of your neighbors appliances as well. Right?

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

See my comments on the thread about digital very-nears.d 😀

 

Looking elsewhere, It appears that they’ll daisy chain up to ten units. That would match G98. I don’t see any warnings about using two or more ten unit strings. I would hope that anyone thinking of that would get a more cost effective installation and a G99 or G100 approval and system.

I’m not sure that the ‘floating support’ patent is particularly relevant to the current subject, but It’s an intriguing proposition for narrow-boat owners who have induction hobs and electric ovens!

I would be happier with a connector other than the IEC 60309 one, but a grid tied inverter will not/cannot generate an output without an external supply. There’s no new technology there.

As far as the safety of a grid tied inverter connected via a suicide plug and a permanently wired one, there is no difference whatsoever. It feels uncomfortable, but there really is no difference. by the time you could get the plug and socket apart to stick your fingers in, the inverter would have shut down. Not the same scenario as a Diesel/petrol geny.

[peter1972Participant @peter1972]

So with each panel capable of generating 340W maximum, with ten panels daisy-chained you could generate 3.4kW. maximum?

For those with an old electromechanical meter, I understand that the spinning disk would spin backwards if the panels generate more than the consumption. Do ordinary non-solar smartmeters also register electicity exported to the grid?

[peter1972]

On peter1972 Said:

So with each panel capable of generating 340W maximum, with ten panels daisy-chained you could generate 3.4kW. maximum?

For those with an old electromechanical meter, I understand that the spinning disk would spin backwards if the panels generate more than the consumption. Do ordinary non-solar smartmeters also register electicity exported to the grid?

Smart meters, in general, should measure imports and exports. If you have a suitable contract with your supplier, you can get paid for the exports. Otherwise, you’ll get no benefit from the exports. Peculiarly , if you have a ‘non-smart, rotating meter (certainly GEC meters and Sangamo Weston meters that I’ve used), then it’ll run backwards if you export power to the grid.

This is neither acceptable or kosher as far as the suppliers are concerned…

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Having skimmed through the patent on .gov.uk

AND looked at the filings at Companies House

… small firm, based in the Hope Valley

I landed here: https://modular.solar

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Something doesn’t feel quite right about all this

… time will tell.

MichaelG.

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Ref. DataSheet

https://modular.solar/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Modular-Solar-Datasheet-V1.7.pdf

[paul1956Participant @paul1956]

Not really – to me, relying on some inevitably chinese electronics in the solar panel inverter to render the bare live pin of the UK plug top at zero potential prior to it being inserted in the live socket to feed the house electrics is a risk.

Just look around at where your electrical devices were manufactured and where the components came from. You’ll be using Chinese electrics every day without issue.

Electricity is not nicknamed “electrickery” for no reason !!

Only by clueless people.

[Mark Rand]

On Mark Rand Said:

You think that a country of 1.4 billion people, with the world’s largest GDP (PPP basis), that makes almost all of the consumer electronics that we use, suddenly can’t make a safe grid tied inverter, when they’ve been making ones approved for UK, EU and US installation for a couple of decades?

Of course the Chinese CAN make safe electrical equipment. The problem is that in the race to the lowest cost / highest profit much of what they export isn’t safe / fully compliant. The importers and resellers don’t seem to care and enforcement is inadequate.

Robert.

[Mark Rand]

On Mark Rand Said:

Smart meters, in general, should measure imports and exports. If you have a suitable contract with your supplier, you can get paid for the exports. Otherwise, you’ll get no benefit from the exports. Peculiarly , if you have a ‘non-smart, rotating meter (certainly GEC meters and Sangamo Weston meters that I’ve used), then it’ll run backwards if you export power to the grid.

So it seems to me it is only worth purchasing these panels if you have an old electromechanical rotating meter.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

We have smart meters which were already installed before we bought the place. We also have two solar array installed by the P.O in around 2014. The smart meters do not record the energy going back into the grid because the solar was installed before the smart meters. What we have is a generation meter on each solar array and a tarriff that is based on 50% of the energy we generate is deemed to be fed into the grid. We get paid for 100% of what is generated by the solar and 50% of that as feed-in. This is a 20yr contract which we inherited with the property so has a long while to run yet.

The obvious benefit is of course that the more energy we use when the sun is shining the less goes back to the grid. The downside is that no storage battery allowed, so to gain the biggest benefit I had 2 A/C systems installed which run flat out all summer for liitle  or no energy cost to me.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I suppose it depends on how long they last, but payback in 4 1/2 years sounds pretty good?

Could obviously come down quite a bit the way things are going in the Middle East.

https://modular.solar/case_studies/small-domestic-house/

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is worth a look:

https://www.alarmrisk.com/resource/plug-into-a-small-solar-solution.html

MichaelG.

[southernchapParticipant @southernchap]

This thread is hilarious! You have a couple of sensible voices, one or two people asking reasonable questions and the rest a bunch of old fusspots, claiming the internal combustion engine/telephone/computer will never amount to anything and is just a gimmick!

It’s like watching an episode of Last of the Summer Wine, but slightly less funny! 😆😆😆

[peter1972]

On peter1972 Said:

On Mark Rand Said:

Smart meters, in general, should measure imports and exports. If you have a suitable contract with your supplier, you can get paid for the exports. Otherwise, you’ll get no benefit from the exports. Peculiarly , if you have a ‘non-smart, rotating meter (certainly GEC meters and Sangamo Weston meters that I’ve used), then it’ll run backwards if you export power to the grid.

So it seems to me it is only worth purchasing these panels if you have an old electromechanical rotating meter.

Not at all. Plug In Solar as currently proposed is not a “feed-in” system. It does not supply any power to the network All it does is provide power to reduce the amount you consume from the network  thaus reducing your bill. You do of course have to be consuming power at the time. I yu have gas heating and the house is empty during peak sunshine hours it is unlikely you will be consuming the full amount generated so will not get full benefit.
The proposal seems to be for a maximum of two panels. These would be linked at DC not AC so you have a single inverter.

Robert.

[southernchap]

On southernchap Said:

This thread is hilarious! You have a couple of sensible voices, one or two people asking reasonable questions and the rest a bunch of old fusspots, claiming the internal combustion engine/telephone/computer will never amount to anything and is just a gimmick!

It’s like watching an episode of Last of the Summer Wine, but slightly less funny! 😆😆😆

I don’t see anyone saying that this will never amount to anything, would you care to give an example?

I suppose my comments could be read (in isolation) as negative, but I’ve only countered those looking at systems currently on sale which by definition cannot be used as Plug-In as the legislation has not been changed. These units should not be being sold as they do not meet current UK legislation. I’ve also commented on the claim made by one UK seller which at best have errors and are misleading.

I’m keeping my personal view on “Plug -In Solar” generally to myself. There is no point in commenting on the technical issue of the proposal as they have not been published yet.

Robert.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Your comments are welcomed, and greatly appreciated, Robert

MichaelG.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I think my views on Solar (in the UK) were somewhat reinforced after watching this YT from Harry’s Farm.

Harry’s Farm – Solar & Wind 

Even if I were convinced about Solar’s viability in the Uk, I’m not sure I’m going to be around long enough to get any “pay-back” from the money spent. If I were to make an investment, I think I might be tempted to skip the ‘Solar’ part (especially on the roof) and just have a battery installed outside, charging it “off-peak” or whatever that’s called these days.

A small ‘plug-in’ panel sounded tempting (to give back-ground heat to my new [as yet unbuilt] shed) but given Harry’s thoughts above, maybe the money would be better just going towards a battery…

Anyway – this idea of ‘portable’ panels still seems a bit ‘Wait & See’ at the moment..

Regards,

 

IanT

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

 

Plug In Solar as currently proposed is not a “feed-in” system. It does not supply any power to the network. All it does is provide power to reduce the amount you consume from the network  thaus reducing your bill. You do of course have to be consuming power at the time. If you have gas heating and the house is empty during peak sunshine hours it is unlikely you will be consuming the full amount generated so will not get full benefit.

Surely if you have plug-in solar producing 340W per panel on a very bright June day and consumption by things you have on standby is say 50W, you will be exporting power to the network whether you have a spinning disc meter or a smartmeter.

In my view the claim on the Modular Solar website that these panels have a 4½ year payback is very misleading. It all depends on your consumption, especially of things on standby. However if you have a spnning disc meter that can spin backwards, the payback time may be very good.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

A very interesting video, Ian

… albeit Harry lives in a different world to mine !

MichaelG.

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P.S. … I am currently paying Octopus £72.20 pcm, which slightly exceeds my electricity consumption.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The advertising can be a useful indication if you take it in the right vein. As engineers you know the advert for the car that does 200 miles per gallon is from a test done downhill for 500yds and extrapolated. If they say payback in 4 years you know it actually means the test was in the Sahara in midsummer at midday so 8 years minimum and 12 in the UK.

However if you DIY it then it can be a sort of hobby – like your £2k lathe is not supposed to pay for itself ever, let alone in 4 years.

Also from the engineering DIY angle do a search for Scoraig wind turbine.

[southernchap]

On southernchap Said:

This thread is hilarious! You have a couple of sensible voices, one or two people asking reasonable questions and the rest a bunch of old fusspots, claiming the internal combustion engine/telephone/computer will never amount to anything and is just a gimmick!

It’s like watching an episode of Last of the Summer Wine, but slightly less funny! 😆😆😆

Yes I know, and it’s the usual suspects! 🙄 🤣

If you were to look back far enough on here they were the same ones saying there would never ever be more than a handful of Electric Cars sold in the UK. 😉

Its a real shame the ignore member feature was dropped when the site changed software.

[Roger HartParticipant @rogerhart88496]

As Robert has said we don’t know what the UK rules are. But I have a few concerns.

Not all UK house wiring is totally as per the regs, we have to aim off a bit for a minimum that prevents fires and worse. A fair few users of this kind of system will be at the poorer/desperate end of the market and corners are likely to be cut.

From a little experience with legislators, they get all kinds of interest groups round a table, everyone puts in their 3 penn’th and the rules end up a compromise that satisfies the big boys and politicians with lots of backside protection built in after a long delay. Global manufacturers and marketers take little notice of small governments. Plenty of opportunity to sell into a half/un regulated market while the going is good and unclear. I would not want to be writing the regs, very tricky and likely a waste of time.

A bit bothered by the idea of batteries and inverters under the stairs or in the loft. Those miseries the insurers may want to charge more. Then the cost/benefit. I am sceptical of small scale systems and look forward to much wailing in the tabloids 3 years down the pike about poor people being ripped off.

Not all solar is poor value, an architect neighbour has a large setup warming the house via A/C units and his swimming pool and charging a car, the two petrol cars go as normal. He is happy with it and got in while the subsidies were good.

Me? I’m not buying any green bananas.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I’m a bit concerned that the company the government paid to do the safety study is a sustainability strategy company. Hopefully they subcontracted the electrical safety aspects. I can’t tell as the study has not been published yet. I don’t know if it will ever be public.

“The objective of this study is to assess whether plug-in solar photovoltaic (PV) connected to certified inverters can be safely deployed in the UK without socket or building wiring modifications. The study will assess technical, regulatory, and practical feasibility, and make clear, evidence-based recommendations for plug-in solar PV in the UK.”

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/078593-2025?origin=SearchResults&p=1330

Not sure how they could assess “certified inverters” when there is no extant certification standard either. The EU standards are not directly applicable as they use a 16A radial power topology in domestic properies while the UK uses a 13A / 32A ring.

Contract winner https://www.arceio.com/

“Arceio delivers timely strategy: diagnosing every challenge, guiding choices on competition and value creation, and aligning coherent actions for sustainable growth.
We advise leaders on business development, commercial deals, policy navigation, and economic transitions; from M&A to capital raising. Informed by deep sector experience, guided by purpose, always with integrity.”

Nothing about electrical safety. Or sructural (hanging glass panels off balconies).

Robert.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Good to have you on the case, Robert

I was ‘surprised’ to see that arceio is already showing this contract as a ‘Success Story’

https://www.arceio.com/success-stories/

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Client: DESNZ (UK Government)
Challenge: Validate safety and feasibility of plug-in PV systems for the UK market and consumers.
Arceio: Led end-to-end product testing, evidence-based study and standards gap analysis.
Impact: Shaping UK energy regulation and driving the UK 2030 solar roadmap strategy.

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Mmmm …

MichaelG.

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Meanwhile …

MichaelG.

[Author]

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