Search Results for 'arc euro'

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 25/04/2020 01:12:41:

Posted by Steviegtr on 22/04/2020 16:16:50:

Posted by not done it yet on 22/04/2020 08:01:33:

Posted by Steviegtr on 21/04/2020 17:59:26:

I do sometimes knock Asian import stuff, but have a garage full of it. …

Steve.

So in this time of social distancing, isolation, etc perhaps you might find time to use it (both the face cutter and the full garage of stuff) and report back your technical findings?

That £25 tool, when actually in use, may well be poor value in comparison with more reliable supplies from the likes of Arceuro – at not so much more outlay (and a lot less than genuine Sandvik cutter, which would likely be a blatant waste of money – when used by a greenhorn on any hobby mill).

But there again, as they say, ignorance is bliss. If you have nothing decent with which to compare it you may well feel sufficiently satisfied with your purchase….

Well thanks for calling me ignorant. Been called worse. …

Steve.

Just re read this post. I now realise what I am. It looks like I am a ignorant greenhorn. MMnnn . Ok I probably am. It is unfortunate that we could not have all been born to the likes of you & the grass SOD. Or maybe fortunate that we were not. To think you are the MASTERS & belittle all below you is quite a low form of wit. I thought this thread was to talk about the outcome of Covid & not to slag one & all. Or one.

…

Ranting over. Stay safe & think positive.

Steve.

Oh dear,

Let's hope that a better understanding between myself and Steve comes out the Covid epidemic!

I'm not belittling anyone Steve, though I am questioning your approach to developing a new hobby. As you're a determined and very confident individual with relevant experience, I thought it best to issue a clear challenge. Confident chaps are often deaf to criticism.

The problem is you're trying to run before you can walk.

My first advice was to slow down, and not start the hobby by modifying machines before learning to drive them. Then I moved on to the need to learn a wide range of skills such as how to read a drawing, and translate that understanding into the machine operations needed to make a particular part to specified dimensions. That's an order of magnitude more difficult than freelancing an old car part into a shiny cup.

No-one is belittling you as a person, but I – and others – are questioning your approach, particularly as it is likely to mislead beginners. You're going the wrong way if your goal is to make or repair working mechanisms. Whilst you've clearly demonstrated an aptitude for practical work, I don't think you've twigged the need to develop the skills needed to produce precision objects with a lathe and milling machine, and that's what they're for!

It comes down to what's the best way to learn. Maybe for Steve, it's enthusiastically exploring random subjects, enjoying the thrill of jumping in at the deep end despite the red flag! But most of us learn best by following some form of structure, basically start simple, do some theory, get accurate results on real machines, and repeat to get the skills and experience needed to successfully make complex objects.

Though flattered to read Steve thinks I'm a MASTER, it's not true. I've always been interested in scientific and technical subjects, history, current, and futures. Although I have engineering qualifications, they're in Software Engineering. I only got seriously into being a 'Model Engineer', whatever that is, just before retiring. I'm self-taught, partly from books, but enormously from this forum, plus plenty of machine time. The Forum is great because our international membership covers many subjects at all levels. We have chaps with massive shop-floor skills and industry experience across to full blown professional engineers doing hard maths. We also have instrument repairers, scientists, businessmen, managers, a professional boiler maker, computer programmers, computer support experts, mechanics, prize winning model makers, electricians (of all sorts), motor experts, builders, toolmakers, sheet metal and wood-workers, restorers, dentists, vets, bee-keepers, loco builders, and gunsmiths etc etc. Compared with these guys in their own field, I'm a rank beginner. It's not about me, it's about what I can learn from them! And in return, I share what I've picked up over the years in electronics, radio engineering, software engineering, and the sciences. Though I've learned lots of tricks, I'm far from being a top machinist – too slow. Doesn't matter, it's a hobby. And pretty much every time I log on to the forum I learn something new. From you too Steve – aren't you the forum's top expert on recovering written-off cars and making rings? I couldn't do either of those!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/04/2020 11:39:57

[VicParticipant @vic]

Lots on the auction site.

Spotting Drill

Spotting Drill

Edited By Vic on 25/04/2020 10:05:02

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I bought a lathe from machinemart over(?) 25 years ago and later bought some extras including a 4 jaw chuck – possibly a little larger than 100mm – but I would never buy precision stuff from them ever again. Purchase was before the internet and rather a rushed purchase. One that I have since regretted. That said, I don’t know how good, or bad, the chuck is – it still sits with a job, to be completed, ever since I (re)commissioned a decent replacement lathe.

I buy most of my bits from Arceuro these days.  Good reliable service, fair quality and good repartee🙂.

 

Edited By not done it yet on 25/04/2020 07:44:58

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by Steviegtr on 22/04/2020 16:16:50:

Posted by not done it yet on 22/04/2020 08:01:33:

Posted by Steviegtr on 21/04/2020 17:59:26:

I do sometimes knock Asian import stuff, but have a garage full of it. Today came my 50mm face cutter ,complete with 10 inserts & the arbor. About £25.

Or I could have gone for a Sandvik, if I got a 2nd mortgage.

Basically agree with Michael above.

Steve.

So in this time of social distancing, isolation, etc perhaps you might find time to use it (both the face cutter and the full garage of stuff) and report back your technical findings?

That £25 tool, when actually in use, may well be poor value in comparison with more reliable supplies from the likes of Arceuro – at not so much more outlay (and a lot less than genuine Sandvik cutter, which would likely be a blatant waste of money – when used by a greenhorn on any hobby mill).

But there again, as they say, ignorance is bliss. If you have nothing decent with which to compare it you may well feel sufficiently satisfied with your purchase….

Well thanks for calling me ignorant. Been called worse. The facemill I was using yesterday & it is very good, apart from I had to retram the head, which I had not got perfect the 1st time. It is the same one I believe that ARC sell. My garage full of Chinese stuff, I have been using for years. Most of it pretty good too.

Today is the turn for the flycutters. You have also seen previously a lot of my use of Chinese stuff when making the rings. Regards

Steve.

Just re read this post. I now realise what I am. It looks like I am a ignorant greenhorn. MMnnn . Ok I probably am. It is unfortunate that we could not have all been born to the likes of you & the grass SOD. Or maybe fortunate that we were not. To think you are the MASTERS & belittle all below you is quite a low form of wit. I thought this thread was to talk about the outcome of Covid & not to slag one & all. Or one.

Back on track. The good bits maybe some new start up companies will start making things at a price we will be attracted to. Cutting out the likes of buying from a foreign company & making Britain what it should be again. GREAT. A lot of the money being earned in the UK is from folk who buy from the said & then sell at a huge profit. Proof is I just bought the facemill which is very good to a green thing. It even came with a pack of 10 inserts. For the measly sum of £25 all in with the cutter , Arbor , inserts & key. The same ones sold by a sponsor of this forum comes in at £61.85. It may not have come from the same factory, but probably did. 

So I can understand why some members are pushing products sold by retailers that buy from anywhere but the UK. But surely the whole point of this time in our lives we can sit back & think of a way forward for this country.

Which by the way I would rather be than anywhere else apart from. Maybe Richard Branson's island with the dolly birds. .

Ranting over. Stay safe & think positive.

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 25/04/2020 01:25:46

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by not done it yet on 22/04/2020 08:01:33:

Posted by Steviegtr on 21/04/2020 17:59:26:

I do sometimes knock Asian import stuff, but have a garage full of it. Today came my 50mm face cutter ,complete with 10 inserts & the arbor. About £25.

Or I could have gone for a Sandvik, if I got a 2nd mortgage.

Basically agree with Michael above.

Steve.

So in this time of social distancing, isolation, etc perhaps you might find time to use it (both the face cutter and the full garage of stuff) and report back your technical findings?

That £25 tool, when actually in use, may well be poor value in comparison with more reliable supplies from the likes of Arceuro – at not so much more outlay (and a lot less than genuine Sandvik cutter, which would likely be a blatant waste of money – when used by a greenhorn on any hobby mill).

But there again, as they say, ignorance is bliss. If you have nothing decent with which to compare it you may well feel sufficiently satisfied with your purchase….

Well thanks for calling me ignorant. Been called worse. The facemill I was using yesterday & it is very good, apart from I had to retram the head, which I had not got perfect the 1st time. It is the same one I believe that ARC sell. My garage full of Chinese stuff, I have been using for years. Most of it pretty good too.

Today is the turn for the flycutters. You have also seen previously a lot of my use of Chinese stuff when making the rings. Regards

Steve.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That's interesting Grey but not good news for the OP. This is also why the spindle to table height on the Sieg SX2.7 is less on the R8 spindled machine as it has been extended to give more material around the tapered end, easily seen in the sketches of the two spindles here

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Steviegtr on 21/04/2020 17:59:26:

I do sometimes knock Asian import stuff, but have a garage full of it. Today came my 50mm face cutter ,complete with 10 inserts & the arbor. About £25.

Or I could have gone for a Sandvik, if I got a 2nd mortgage.

Basically agree with Michael above.

Steve.

So in this time of social distancing, isolation, etc perhaps you might find time to use it (both the face cutter and the full garage of stuff) and report back your technical findings?

That £25 tool, when actually in use, may well be poor value in comparison with more reliable supplies from the likes of Arceuro – at not so much more outlay (and a lot less than genuine Sandvik cutter, which would likely be a blatant waste of money – when used by a greenhorn on any hobby mill).

But there again, as they say, ignorance is bliss. If you have nothing decent with which to compare it you may well feel sufficiently satisfied with your purchase….

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Mini lathe or mill problem? Title and post are different?

For MT3 get one of these and use MT2 tooling in the sleeve?

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Adaptors-Sleeves/Morse-Taper-Open-Sleeve-with-Release-Nut

The one thing I would not do is use a steel hammer to directly thump a drawbar to release any tool from a taper. Use a soft drift, not steel!

I use wedges to remove MT2 tapers. Lathe uses MT4, so more difficult (always uses a sleeve) but still use a soft mallet, not a steel hammer. Not needed often as generally a centre is needed and that is always cut in the chuck, or an ER collet chuck gets used.

One thing to keep in mind is to avoid fitting a cold taper into a warm socket.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

You can get handy tailstock die holders like this example from Arc Euro:

 

But I believe the Unimat tail-stock doesn't have the usual taper, instead using a non-standard M14 screw? If so, tools like the above can't be plugged in.

There's an alternative if you have an ordinary tail-stock mounted drill-chuck for the lathe. This type of die holder has a plain straight mounting rod with a hole bored through it These can be worked by hand by mounting them on a straight rod or pipe held in the drill chuck.

Photo above also nicked from Arc Euro's website..

Here's one I made earlier:

Similar trick with a spring loaded straight thingy works for taps:

Not really for cutting threads under power, I usually turn the main chuck by hand while pushing the die holder into the cut and stopping it from rotating.

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 21/04/2020 14:03:41

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I mainly use 2MT collets to hold milling cutters in an Emco FB2 clone milling machine, mainly to keep the cutters as close as possible to the spindle bearings. 6,8,10& 12 metric and 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 & 1/2 imperial hold most cutters. They can only be used with very-close-to-size shanks, as there is little finger movement. They hold well but, as the FB2 has a captive drawbar, I can pull them up tight & not have a problem releasing them. IIRC I bought mine from Arc Eurotrade at one of the Harrogate shows many years ago.

RDG Tools 3MT collets go to 20mm metric & 11/16" Imperial – see here

Nigel B

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

Made a new key. I'm glad I bought some new files from Arc Euro a few weeks ago.

All re-assembled with new circlip.

The saw is now all put back together. I'm just waiting for a new bolt which is ordered. I just hope it's the correct thread.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Jeremy Smith 2 on 16/04/2020 07:04:12:

I see there are a lot of kits on amazon for end mills and lathe cutters. Most likely they are imported from overseas. That being said, are these worth trying, or am I wasting my time? …

There isn't a simple answer.

Making basic tools today there are no trade secrets and modern production processes are largely de-skilled. In consequence it's possible to set up a factory almost anywhere in the world and produce goods to whatever specification is wanted. As there isn't much profit in bog-standard engineering, most Western manufacturing has gone high-technology. Aerospace rather than twist-drills. Country of origin doesn't mean much now.

Another change. In the good old days there was a sharp distinction between cheap & nasty and good tools. It made sense to buy the best once rather than waste money on a succession of inadequate tools that didn't work properly. Today the distinction between good and bad is much less clear cut. While there are still very nasty and very high good tools to be had, most tools are of middling quality, designed to be affordable and disposable. Despite wanting quality in theory, few of us are prepared to pay for it.

In a home workshop middling tools are often more than satisfactory. Even tradesmen have moved towards inexpensive tools: when one wears out, buy another. In the meantime, no worries about breaking expensive tools or having them nicked.

Trouble with Internet buying is it's hard to tell the difference between bargains and tosh. The problem is most acute at the very cheap end. For my part (light amateur work), I prefer buying moderately priced cutting tools from British vendors like Tracy Tools, ArcEuro and the other usual suspects. A bit more expensive than random ebay sellers, but I feel they're more likely to import decent stuff than I am! So far the strategy works for me. That said, ebay and Amazon are often worth a punt because they do sell genuine bargains. Surplus stock is usually the real-thing. It's a bit of a gamble – my rule is no tears if a dirt-cheap item turns out to be a dud.

Buying high-end isn't a guarantee of satisfaction either. For example, you can pay a lot of money for a fairly ordinary cutter just because it's been carefully balanced to run at 30000rpm on a CNC machine. Complete waste of cash if your mill only does 2500 rpm downhill.

I would approach buying tools differently if I made a living out of cutting metal. When time is money, it's unwise to risk dodgy tooling. A professional usually does better by buying reliable tools to minimise downtime. In my workshop, downtime is almost irrelevant.

Dave

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

John Hinckley-

Thank you for the Arc Euro tip!

'''

Welded the 8 horn-cheeks for my workshop hoists' cross-beam. I'm giving it a basic rubber-bush springing because with the best care in the world I am unlikely to set the longitudinal rails totally level all over, at nearly 16 feet long by 6 feet gauge. The wheels and axles do stay generally where I park them though, so it's not far off!

These horn-cheeks are simply bits of hot-rolled steel bar welded to square-section tube pillars.

I say welded.. I have to admit I am lucky if a quarter of the electrode or wire used does anything useful. Most forms lumps separated by slag on only one side of the joint, even if it looks and sounds right during the process itself. This is partly inexperience but also my hands tremble when I need them steady under some strain – they always have. So I use welding only rarely, and where strength, function and appearance are not too critical.

These pillars won't carry the load, simply take mild lateral forces when manually moving the hoist along the shed. Nor will the crab carry anything more than my Clarke-badged manual chain-hoist and loads well within its limits, and will normally carry rope blocks and tackle.

The rest of the assembly is all bolted.

I left trimming the weld lumps until after tea, and ensured my neighbours were indoors, as I carry out welding and angle-grinding outside the workshop.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by duncan webster on 15/04/2020 11:36:12:

Posted by John Hinkley on 15/04/2020 09:38:14:

Nigel,

If you check this forum and Arc Euro Trade's web site, you will find that they have re-opened, albeit for online business only. They are working a system that I imagine will have slightly degraded delivery times compared with their usual extremely prompt service. Postal delays not withstanding.

John

(JASC)

But the first thing you get is a notice about cookies, and you don't seem to be able to turn them off, so no more Arc Euro for me

It's the websites that don't tell you about the cookies you need to watch out for.

You can always set your browser to delete cookies* or use a 'private' window.

Neil

*but then you won't be able to stay logged in to websites like this one.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by duncan webster on 15/04/2020 11:36:12:

But the first thing you get is a notice about cookies, and you don't seem to be able to turn them off, so no more Arc Euro for me

Even this site uses cookies. Every time you answer or make a post a cookie is generated to track them. Every time you read the news or go to any website cookies are generated. As said in the Terminator series. "You cannot stop them or hide from them" . EVERY browser adds dozens of them to your pc. The internet does not work well without them. I bet you have 100's if not 1000's of them on your pc. I suppose if we all thought like that ARC along with RDG and the like would have no internet business and loose much of their income and therefore go bust. You would have to go to the bank every time you need to get or transfer money etc. Your car/home insurance would have to be done manually at an office some where, possibly India these days. regards

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by duncan webster on 15/04/2020 11:36:12:

But the first thing you get is a notice about cookies, and you don't seem to be able to turn them off, so no more Arc Euro for me

In my opinion legitimate cookies are not designed to do harm – they are either for the convenience of the user by maintaining shopping baskets or form entries between sessions and the like or for commercial purposes of the website owner to target advertising – which can help to pay for non commercial sites.

However I do not like them on my computers so configure browsers on most of my machines to block them or delete them at the end of sessions. This is easy to do, but can be overturned by software updates occasionally so you need to check from time to time the blocking is still in place.

Just not going on sites that say they have cookies is not a viable option as some sites are exempt from asking for your permission to use cookies if they are used for specific purposes – and also if a dodgy cookie is going to be left on your machine they are hardly likely to ask your permission!

 

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 15/04/2020 12:16:03

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by John Hinkley on 15/04/2020 09:38:14:

Nigel,

If you check this forum and Arc Euro Trade's web site, you will find that they have re-opened, albeit for online business only. They are working a system that I imagine will have slightly degraded delivery times compared with their usual extremely prompt service. Postal delays not withstanding.

John

(JASC)

But the first thing you get is a notice about cookies, and you don't seem to be able to turn them off, so no more Arc Euro for me

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Nigel,

If you check this forum and Arc Euro Trade's web site, you will find that they have re-opened, albeit for online business only. They are working a system that I imagine will have slightly degraded delivery times compared with their usual extremely prompt service. Postal delays not withstanding.

John

(JASC)

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Ian –

Only just spotted your post of 2 or 3 weeks ago, wondering if you can go and buy metal. This must be a problem for many of us.

I suppose you could have added it to a food-shopping trip, but would the place have been open anyway? The restrictions on driving are there to protect you, me the staff and everyone else, but if it's still open would it still be permissible to buy there on the principle that it is a shop still allowed to trade? The shop itself might have established a similar system to Screwfix: telephoned orders collected at the door. (Some pubs are selling their stocks rather like that – you collect the ordered beverages from a table outside the door.)

Some of our regular suppliers, including MJ Engineering and ArcEuro, have suspended trading but I bought some fastenings recently from Live Steam Models, by mail-order. Others may still be trading but their web-sites no longer work. I do hope we are all between us still supporting these firms as we can.

' ' '

It's made me think carefully about the metal I have in stock. I've always used 'new-to-me' materials, but am presently using some steel that even I might otherwise scrap as it's so corroded.

It's a matter of cutting and machining the less affected metal to lose the worst pitting, and leave the remaining surfaces where it won't matter too much, and will be painted. Obviously those pitted surfaces are not on model components that will be visible so have to look right. Nor heavily-loaded, unless the steel is sufficiently over-size for cutting all surfaces below the corrosion. If loaded, I assess how it is loaded, and whether the weathering has weakened it too much for the application.

This is to leave my precious, non-precious metals in decent condition, for where original size and good surface condition are important.

[Steve Jones 20Participant @stevejones20]

Thanks Guys for all your advice, I will definitely be getting some accessories from ArcEurotrade as mentioned above.

Because I’m a novice to using a lathe I was wondering if anyone could identify my boxford lathe model because the home of Boxford said I had a Boxford BUD, but I think I have a Boxford C lathe?

The lathe is stamped: C8234

see pictures below. What do you think?

Steve.

 

Edited By Steve Jones 20 on 14/04/2020 14:17:06

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The usual places being the model engineering tool suppliers who advertise on this site and in Model Engineer magazine etc. ArcEurotrade as mentioned being one with a good reputation.

Beware cheap "bargains" on eBay. Quality can vary (very) widely. Better to spend a little extra and get the better quality units from a reputable supplier.

Tailstock accessories such as chucks and centres are universal across all machines, the main variation being the size of the tapered arbor that fits in the tailstock. In your case, that is a No. 2 Morse Taper, usually listed as MT2. Larger lathes use a larger taper such as MT3 and will not fit your Boxford. 

Get yourself a revolving or "live" centre to save having to lubricate the point of a dead centre. And the keyless chucks are very handy, if good quality. No searching for lost chuck keys and quicker in operation.

Edited By Hopper on 14/04/2020 02:47:24

[Sarah FParticipant @sarahf]

Posted by Adam Stevenson on 12/04/2020 13:13:25:

It was found to be 350 for best results, the velocity is the one important for the spindle. Lots of testing was done with these machines and each one from Arceuro was calibrated to allow a quicker setup by the users.

The actual values are regardless it is the ratio between them that matters. Think that for each 360º the computer sends steps, it is not just how many steps are sent but how fast the amount are sent too. But we are not sending steps but a Voltage that the controller uses to drive the motor at a set speed, they is also a in-built tacho that will increase or decrease the current to keep the speed constance. So at the end it is not the number of steps sent per revolution but the rate at which they are sent. So we pick a nice number and then how fast we send them and balance the ratio between them, in this case 350 x 4,000 or 35 x 40,000 or 3,500 x 400. The computer will have limits so we picked the mid ground that most PC's would work with.

Edited By Adam Stevenson on 12/04/2020 13:16:52

Hi Adam, I now understand what you meant about the ratios of Step per and Velocity.

Your 'Step per' multiplied by 'Velocity' figures are approximately double those of mine. I put your Step per x Velocity in to my machine and the sure enough the rpm doubled! A requested 2000rpm shot up to over 4000rpm! So presumably I can either have my 100 x 6000 or modify yours to 350 x 2000 (plus a bit of twaekage). Is there any practical difference between the two?

The X, Y and Z axis seem fine at 5us Step Pulse, they just sound a bit different.

Thanks for your help and patience.

Sarah

 

Edited By Sarah on 13/04/2020 12:40:40

[Adam StevensonParticipant @adamstevenson91624]

It was found to be 350 for best results, the velocity is the one important for the spindle. Lots of testing was done with these machines and each one from Arceuro was calibrated to allow a quicker setup by the users.

The actual values are regardless it is the ratio between them that matters. Think that for each 360º the computer sends steps, it is not just how many steps are sent but how fast the amount are sent too. But we are not sending steps but a Voltage that the controller uses to drive the motor at a set speed, they is also a in-built tacho that will increase or decrease the current to keep the speed constance. So at the end it is not the number of steps sent per revolution but the rate at which they are sent. So we pick a nice number and then how fast we send them and balance the ratio between them, in this case 350 x 4,000 or 35 x 40,000 or 3,500 x 400. The computer will have limits so we picked the mid ground that most PC's would work with.

Edited By Adam Stevenson on 12/04/2020 13:16:52

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

I have a lifetimes collection of blunt ends mills and slot drills. Being stuck at home and not spending much money, I thought I might treat myself to an Arceurotrade milling cutter sharpening machine.

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/End-Mill-Re-Sharpening-Module/EMG-12-End-Mill-Re-Sharpening-Module

Anyone have any experience of using one.

I do have a Chinese cutter grinder but it just doesn’t get used I have not been very successful at sharpening cutters on it.

Edited By Old School on 12/04/2020 07:28:35