Old School
@oldschool
This where I buy my inserts from, https://www.shop-apt.co.uk and milling cutters for my cnc mill the quality and service is good. But they supply industry and a lot of inserts are only supplied in boxes of 10, some are available in model engineer quantities.
I also use Arceurotrade for inserts their own brand for me perform well for me.
Ketan Swali
@ketanswali79440
Posted by Ian Mellors on 25/02/2021 09:05:58:
Couple of questions Ketan, I'd PM these but the answers may be useful to others
- Is there any machining to be done to the collet chuck for the C1 lathe or is it a straight fit?
- are fixing bolts/screws supplied? – it looks from the images that there are 3 tapped holes, whereas the stock 3 jaw chick comes with studs that fit through the spindle plate.
Thanks
Hi Ian,
It is a straight fit (possibly tight) onto the chuck flange/back plate (Part 45) on this diagram
You will need a rubber mallet, to remove/fit the chucks.
Fixing studs are not supplied. 3 x Fixing holes are tapped M6 as shown in the details table on this page
Basically, the general 'Chinese Standard' for the back female register on an 80mm 3-Jaw Self-Centring (S.C.) Chuck is 55mm – to enable it to fit onto a flange/backplate with the matching 55mm male register. Also, most such chucks are tapped M6.
So, the ER lathe collet chuck registers and PCDs are made to conform to the Chinese standards of 80mm, 100mm, 125mm lathe chucks.
You may be able to unscrew the studs from your standard 3-Jaw S.C. Chuck and use them with your ER 25 lathe collet chuck. As far as I can recall, the studs would be introduced from the back of the flange, and screwed into the body of the ER25 lathe collet chuck, in the same way as your existing arrangement with the 3-Jaw S.C. chuck. Note: the stud does not need to go all the way through the tapped hole, as long as the studs go in a reasonable amount to hold the collet chuck secure in place, and you feel comfortable. Alternatively, you make up your own arrangement with studs and nuts to meet your needs.
Ketan at ARC
Edited By Ketan Swali on 25/02/2021 11:44:38
Robert Atkinson 2
@robertatkinson2
SillyOldDuffer
@sillyoldduffer
I have a Lidl special that despite being dropped, stood on, and grossly mistreated still works. After breaking the screen, I upgraded to one of Ketan's mid-price calipers (about £15), which doesn't measure any more accurately than the Lidl but feels better – smoother action, and is less likely to lose zero.
A bit later I picked up a Dasqua on offer for about £25. While it's distinctly silky and has a useful zero function but the big difference between the Dasqua and the others is it's sealed.
Most of the time I use the ArcEuro : it doesn't seem to eat batteries, but then none of mine do. The Dasqua feels reliable and accurate, and it's best for doing a long run of repeated measurements. The advantage of the ArcEuro is it does a good job, much used and abused, and there won't be an emotional scene when I break it.
Dave
JasonB
@jasonb
If your pads don't have a clamp then modify them like this one, a stepped clamping bar like you find on Keats Plates can be made for smaller dia work. A clamp like you get on "finger plates" could be added to the flat one.
They may be recommended in old books but most people have move don to having mills and drill presses so you don't see them used so much now.
Steviegtr
@steviegtr
Well i am glad that the response has been positive for the SG iron model. I have ordered one from ARC. The 100mm one. There is nothing wrong with the Abwood, just the 2 3/4" jaw opening being not enough.
From ARC ad it mentions a little fettling, i have seen a few youtube vids where they have remilled the raw casting which the leadscrew presses against. Also the odd deburr here & there. None of which i will mind doing. The alternative. Well i could not really find one.
Most of the european made ones that give a 4" jaw opening seem to be a bit too large & very expensive too. I would like to get on & make 4 clamps but until it arrives i have no measurements.
Steve.
Ian Mellors
@ianmellors72388
Posted by Ketan Swali on 23/02/2021 15:14:40:
Hello Ian,
Your CL250M is a SIEG C1 lathe.
Consider getting one of these from ARC or from whoever you prefer.
The hole through your headstock spindle is 10mm diameter I think. So, this will allow you to hold stock up to 9.99mm through the spindle. Stock from 10mm to 16mm diameter can be held in the front (as cannot go through the spindle) using the appropriate ER25 collet….. Hope my explanation makes sense.
If you have an MT2 taper mill, then the MT2 milling collet chuck ER20 or ER25 would make sense, as it can be used in both the lathe and mill spindle.
Ketan at ARC.
Ah, now that's interesting. I do hope one day to get my hands on either the now discontinued CL251MH or Sealey SM2502B milli/drill attachment for the lathe, which has an MT2 taper …
Ketan Swali
@ketanswali79440
Hello Ian,
Your CL250M is a SIEG C1 lathe.
Consider getting one of these from ARC or from whoever you prefer.
The hole through your headstock spindle is 10mm diameter I think. So, this will allow you to hold stock up to 9.99mm through the spindle. Stock from 10mm to 16mm diameter can be held in the front (as cannot go through the spindle) using the appropriate ER25 collet….. Hope my explanation makes sense.
If you have an MT2 taper mill, then the MT2 milling collet chuck ER20 or ER25 would make sense, as it can be used in both the lathe and mill spindle.
Ketan at ARC.
Mike London
@mikelondon
On Monday (15/02/21) at about 3 in the afternoon I ordered a fairly large heavy item from Arc Eurotrade. I was promised delivery on Wednesday (17/02/21).
On Tuesday (16/02/21) I received an email from RM parcel force with a tracking reference.
Checking the tracking reference I saw the parcel had been collected from Arc Euro at 16-15 Tuesday (16/02/21)
The Postman was knocking on my door with the parcel at 09-30 Wednesday (17/02/21).
Royal Mail delivered the parcel in 171/4 hours.
I have no connection with Arc Euro or Royal Mail. But I think that was fantastic service from both parties.
not done it yet
@notdoneityet
Posted by Steviegtr on 21/02/2021 21:31:26:
I have been looking on the ARC euro site for a milling vice.
……
I have also looked at the precision tool vice 90mm with a 120mm opening.
Anyone got either of these & can give some comments on how good they are.
….
Steve.
If you are looking at the ‘precision type 2’ you will either love it or hate it. I happen to like them and they are my general ‘go to’ options. The 70mm lives on the Raglan and the 90mm on the Centec.
My second one (the 90mm) came from a forum member who bought it but simply did not use it.
Steviegtr
@steviegtr
I have been looking on the ARC euro site for a milling vice. My own is a very good Abwood with 100mm wide jaws , but only 70mm of opening. It is a pain so i am looking for one with wider opening jaws. I have read a few comments about the cast iron ones called a Versatile 100mm version with a 122mm opening which would be handy. It seems a very reasonable price. I have also looked at the precision tool vice 90mm with a 120mm opening.
Anyone got either of these & can give some comments on how good they are.
I am not looking at dragging a product down as to buy a similar european model would be out of the question due to cost over usage. I do not mind a bit of deburring & fettling , but do not want any huge errors to try & overcome.
Steve.
Ketan Swali
@ketanswali79440
Chris, perhaps parts of this article may help. To the best of my knowledge, your machine may be the old X2 mini-mill.
Also, if you search what you are looking for under X2 mini-mill, you will probably find more dismantling information.
Very broadly speaking, the X2 Mini-Mill head assembly is also very similar to old SIEG C2 and C3 mini-lathe headstock, sharing many of the same components except the spindle. So perhaps also review parts of this guide.
Ketan at ARC
old mart
@oldmart
I believe you can get small benchtop machines with MT2, but should you go for R8, an R8 to MT2 adaptor using a smaller diameter drawbar works well. I have R8 to MT2 adaptors for drawbar and for tanged tools such as drill chucks.
ARC Eurotrade have lots of adaptors to look at, as well as milling machines.
Edited By old mart on 19/02/2021 16:04:02
Tony Pratt 1
@tonypratt1
It's a job I need to do on my Arc Eurotrade vice, I'm never going to use flood coolant & the extra travel will be useful.
Tony
Dr_GMJN
@dr_gmjn
Posted by Ramon Wilson on 17/02/2021 21:39:02:
Ha – going off on a tangent is not such a bad thing at times Doc
I've never built specifically to compete but when I returned to plastic modelling in 2003 I felt a bit of self imposed pressure to do so when attending shows with club colleagues. At first it was an enjoyable reward for the effort put in but is a double edged sword for me. Last comp 'entered' was indeed at Telford in 2008 – got a gold in 1/48 modified aircraft so saw that as enough. I have been fortunate to receive 'Awards' at various shows since where a model on display is chosen by someone but, save my club comps, have not physically entered a competition as such since that year.
Haven't been for about three – four years – it's a long way to go and definitely a two night stay for us.
You should do it though – if only the once, for as you know it's been a major event with entrants from over Europe though whether that will be the same if it does go ahead this year remains to be seen.
Yes, missed the shows this last year – usually do three or four. The last was the East of England show at Peterborough last March – literally, just before the shutdown.
That’s awesome. A gold at Telford would be it for me, I couldn’t imagine doing better. I think our first Telford was 2012. Love it!
We only do Halifax/Huddersfield, Cosford and Telford for plastic models, and Doncaster for Model Engineering and railways. Only been to two Model Engineeing shows – just when I could do with going to one, they’re cancelled! The last Halifax Show was also just before lockdown. I suppose a load of old blokes in a confined space isn’t a good idea under the circumstances.
Ramon Wilson
@ramonwilson3
Ha – going off on a tangent is not such a bad thing at times Doc
I've never built specifically to compete but when I returned to plastic modelling in 2003 I felt a bit of self imposed pressure to do so when attending shows with club colleagues. At first it was an enjoyable reward for the effort put in but is a double edged sword for me. Last comp 'entered' was indeed at Telford in 2008 – got a gold in 1/48 modified aircraft so saw that as enough. I have been fortunate to receive 'Awards' at various shows since where a model on display is chosen by someone but, save my club comps, have not physically entered a competition as such since that year.
Haven't been for about three – four years – it's a long way to go and definitely a two night stay for us.
You should do it though – if only the once, for as you know it's been a major event with entrants from over Europe though whether that will be the same if it does go ahead this year remains to be seen.
Yes, missed the shows this last year – usually do three or four. The last was the East of England show at Peterborough last March – literally, just before the shutdown.
Roderick Jenkins
@roderickjenkins93242
Youra,
I used a pair of angular contact bearings, one at each end. These from arc.
Rod
DC31k
@dc31k
I think the Abene references are a little misleading. It has only superficial similarity to those – the head on the (opposite) side instead of the front. And that head is on a sliding ram with an additional Y-axis on the knee.
The photos taken from the right hand side of the machine look as if there is an additional vertical sliding surface, perpendicular to the knee ways and perpendicular to the ram ways so the whole head and ram can possibly be raised and lowered. It almost has two Z-axes and two Y-axes.
Google images will be your friend here.You have to try various combinations of 'Swiss milling machine', 'German milling machine', 'European milling machine'. These may give you some manufacturer names for further searches.
From the square shape and design of it (round, plasticated handwheels), to me it suggests late 1970's, early 1980's (compare and contrast the newer Abene models, Schaublin 22, later Deckels). The lathes site is better on the early machines than the later ones.
Another place to ask is anglo-swiss tools and the oldswissmachines io group.
If you remove a few covers, you might find date codes on some of the motors/electrics. That can narrow things down a bit.
Turbine Guy
@turbineguy
Posted by JasonB on 28/01/2021 17:25:43:
Picture not showing up but I suspect you can see a hole with an offset cut out this is so the collect can be snapped into the nut so I will ask again are you correctly fitting the collet into the nut before screwing the nut onto the chuck. If you don't do that it will push the collet sideways and give the measurements you are getting.
The nut should also pull the collet out of the chuck when undone, if the collet is staying stuck in the chuck that is an indication you have not fitted it correctly into the nut.
See pic at the top of this page the lip at the bottom of the section through the nut is smaller than the lip at the top.
Edited By JasonB on 28/01/2021 17:32:58
I just received a collet set that was sold in Ebay for use with Umimat 3 &4 lathes and was listed as made by JJG Turning Mlling Devices. I quoted this post by JasonB because I read it before my collet set arrived, and despite his excellent instructions, I had the same problems with runout as JDS. The collets and collet chuck were still in sealed bags so I don't believe they were ever used. I followed JasonB's instructions for putting the collets in the chuck and tried different sizes at the upper limit and lower limit printed on the collets. I also tried tightening them as much as I could using the bar and wrench included in the kit. In all cases I tried, the runout was worse than what I would get using my EMCO drill chuck and an additional drill chuck made by another unknown manufacturer. I mentioned the manufacturers name to caution anyone from purchasing a collet set shown as being made by them. I hope this helps someone from making the same costly mistake.
Byron
SillyOldDuffer
@sillyoldduffer
Assuming HSS.
Brass and Cast-iron, not required.
Aluminium – Paraffin or WD40, always.
Steel – almost any oil, or suds. I use CT90, which I have for threading because my local emporium keeps it, or neat cutting oil as used to make suds. Suds is an emulsion of oil in water; the water removes heat and the oil lubricates the cut. Commercial fluids work better than home-made, but at a pinch soapy water, Chip Pan, 3-in-1m or Engine Oil are all better than nothing.
Mostly I apply cutting fluid with a brush because most of my cutting is modest – I don't remove lots of metal at high-speed, or work continuously. My mill can be flood cooled with a pump but I only use it for heavy work on steel: it's messy, and I have the daft idea the water might cause rust. (It doesn't!) The pump system was a waste of money – I don't use it enough.
With Carbide, I find cutting fluid is usually unnecessary on any metal. Sometimes it improves the finish. If cutting fluid is used with carbide, apply generously and avoid splashing the insert directly. Carbide is brittle and thermal shock can crack it. Carbide's quite happy taking brutal deep high-speed cuts that spray the operator in red-hot steel chips, but a spot of cold water can ruin it.
Chief exception: I always apply a squirt of CT90 when threading with taps and dies.
Dave
andrew lyner
@andrewlyner71257
Posted by John Rudd on 27/01/2021 10:45:30:
Posted by andrew lyner on 26/01/2021 18:03:24:
Posted by John Rudd on 20/01/2021 13:53:51:The scr’s are triggered by the low level electronics. If the supply to these isn’t present then the scr’s won’t be triggered at all….Check the 15K 2W carbon resistor adjacent the 0.01Ohm current sensing resistor…..
Spot on – well done – the 15k carbon resistor is O/C. So none of the control circuit gets any power. Is the other resistor in parallel just a backup to keep some bias on the downstream bits?
Actually 2W rating doesn't leave a lot in hand (200V squared / 15K is 2.5W) so a bigger replacement may be a good idea. The way it's mounted implies they expect it to get warm.
The purpose of the 100k resistor isnt clear…Its value is too high and its rating too low to be of any useful purpose.
I generally replace the 15K carbon unit with a 5 Watt ceramic wirewound type for a lasting repair…(I've told all my secrets now…)
When I replaced that big steaming resistor, the board became even deader – no less lit and at least one chip looking charred. So I decided to get a new board from Arc Euro, (£138 ouch) despite their special email to me with a severe Caveat Emptor message. I carefully transferred connections from one board to the other, checked the operation of switches and the potentiometer (motor was working anyway). Damned thing did nothing when at switch on. Check, check and check all connections (I was getting quite familiar with the circuit by now) Check Volts across diodes and stuff. Finally I looked at the wire link across small green terminal block at the bottom. There was a VOLTAGE DROP across the screws. The U shaped link I had fitted was not making contact under one screw – pushed in behind rather than under the shoe. Sorted and I gave a sigh of relief that I hadn't returned the unit – potential great embarrassment.
GingerLathe
@gingerlathe
Posted by Me. on 11/02/2021 16:00:02:
or as it seems many places for the things I need……
What am I on about – well basically trying to get all the bits and pieces I need together to get myself set up.
My machines came with some tooling, some of it quite nice and usable but a lot "tired and used".
I put a small shopping list together to get the bits I needed but unfortunalty all the tool suppliers I have been using never have all the things I need.
Ive tried 3 of what you might call "the big boys" (mostly initials and a Greek sounding time keeper).
Unfortunately they don't have all the bits i need in one place and hunting around each site to pick up the things is costing me a fortune in postage.
I have a budget to spend each month on picking up the items but every time I think i'm getting somewhere with the items I get knocked back by "not listed" or "not stocked here".
Is there a one stop shop or is that too much to ask.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for. I've used arceurotrade a number of times with good results. RDG Tools have a wide selection with average quality for the most part,
Nick Clarke 3
@nickclarke3
Posted by JasonB on 11/02/2021 14:56:33:
………You might also find Neil's bool useful
Book!! – or even his previous book that used a lathe the same as yours for many of the pictures and examples.
**LINK**
JasonB
@jasonb
If you want a set of HSS cutters then the 6mm ones that ARC do will work fine on the SC3.
If you would rather go down the indexable tool route then a 8mm righthand tool, 8mm boring bar and 8mm parting blade & holder will get you going and are all in stock. You might also find Neil's bool useful
Darren Keats
@darrenkeats48928
Old School
Ketan Swali
Robert Atkinson 2
SillyOldDuffer
JasonB
Steviegtr
Ian Mellors
Mike London
not done it yet
old mart
Tony Pratt 1
Dr_GMJN
Ramon Wilson
Roderick Jenkins
DC31k
Turbine Guy
andrew lyner
GingerLathe
Nick Clarke 3
Darren Keats
John Purdy
Fulmen
Martin Johnson 1
Wade Beatty
tgglass
Michael Gilligan
old mart
Robert Atkinson 2
JasonB
KEITH BEAUMONT
john fletcher 1
Russell Eberhardt
fingerscrossed
teamricky
dean clarke 2
Bill Phinn
alecs
Kiwi Bloke
Graeme Seed
lucerne
COLIN MARTIN 2
grizmaster
noel shelley
Dunc
Mike Cooke
Speedy Builder5
Trevor Gale
Harry Broadbent
Bazyle
ron vale 3
Weary
ray1580
Howard Lewis
wilfried54
