1930 Austin 12 with 3rd brush dynamo

1930 Austin 12 with 3rd brush dynamo

Home Forums General Questions 1930 Austin 12 with 3rd brush dynamo

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  • #854924
    john fletcher 1
    Participant
      @johnfletcher1

      I’m attempting to fix a cut-out, fuse and resistance box from a 1930 Austin car. Inside there should be TWO wire wound resistors, Winter / summer. Might be behind the panel switch according to some folk. Does a reader know these resistor values or can suggest another souce of enquiry.  John

      #854947
      Baz
      Participant
        @baz89810

        Obvious place to try first would be Austin owners club. Also what model Austin would probably be helpful, or did they only make one model in 1930?

        #854963
        Robert Butler
        Participant
          @robertbutler92161

          The original post specifies an Austin 12

          #854988
          howardb
          Participant
            @howardb

            This company rebuilds 3 brush dynamos and cut-out boxes to use their own electronic regulator.

            They seem to know what they are talking about.

            https://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/about-me.php

            #854991
            bernard towers
            Participant
              @bernardtowers37738

              go to classic electrical equipment restorers more likely to have the spares as well. classic car mags usually have directories for the firms involved.

              #855014
              Russell Eberhardt
              Participant
                @russelleberhardt48058
                On Robert Butler Said:

                The original post specifies an Austin 12

                According to the 1930 illustrated Austin catalogue I have There were several Austin 12 models.  There was the Austin 12-4 which was a model that originated in the 20s, sometimes known as the Heavy 12-4.  Then there was the new model the Austin Light 12-4 and, on the same chassis was the Light 12-6.

                I once owned a Light 12-6 “Harley” Saloon De Lux but that was in the early 1970s and I’m afraid that I can’t remember many details except that it did have the Summer/Winter setting on the dash.

                Russell

                #855024
                Robert Atkinson 2
                Participant
                  @robertatkinson2

                  What make is the regulator dynamo?

                  Robert.

                  #855027
                  Howard Lewis
                  Participant
                    @howardlewis46836

                    The dynamo will almost certainly be a Lucas.

                    The car probably did not have a Regulator, only a cut out, to disconnect the battery from the charging circuit at low speeds when the dynamo voltage would be less than 12 volts.

                    The output of the third brush dynamo is set by positioning the third brush relative to the other two.

                    The output will be limited, probably not much more than 10 – 12 Amps.

                    The charge rate is controlled by two resistors, swtched by the “Off”, Side”, “Head” switch

                    They might well be positioned in a holder on the engine side of the bulkhead (To allow the heat generated to disperse)

                    These will control the voltage applied to dynamo field, through the third brush and hence its output.

                    In the “Off” postion, both resistors are in series with the field, minimising charge rate.

                    (It only has to cope with load of the ignition system)

                    In the “Side” postion, the higher value resistor will be shorted out, increasing the output to accomodate the current load of the Number Plate, Side and Tail lights and probably the instrument panel lights.

                    Probably 12 volt, 6 watt lamps; say 30 watts, possibly 36 with the panel lights.

                    In the “Head position, both resistors will be shorted out for maximum output from the dynamo.

                    In addition to the 30 wats load of the Side/Tail position, it should be able to cope with two 36 watt headlamp bulbs (When on main beam, only one on Dip)

                    My prewar Singer 9, like many other cars, used this system, and properly set up, it works well.

                    HTH

                    Howard

                     

                    #855043
                    noel shelley
                    Participant
                      @noelshelley55608

                      is it 12V or 6V ? Noel.

                      #855050
                      bernard towers
                      Participant
                        @bernardtowers37738

                        10 to 12 amps thats pushing it!

                        #855056
                        john fletcher 1
                        Participant
                          @johnfletcher1

                          Your on the right wave length HOWARD obvious you have some experience there. A friend has the car and asked me to fix the burnout wire wound resistors, being burnt means no idea of the resistance value. I’ve done the same for an  A7 3rd brush dynamo with 6 volt output, different voltage. In the passed, a short length of fire element, wound around a pencil about 4/6 ohms for an A7. No precision multi meters in the 30’s, especially in a garage. As we ae in no hurry I’ll try the element idea. It’s not difficult to convert these dynamos to two brush system or to rewind the field coil, but not the armature. Many thank to all respondents.  John

                          #855061
                          Robert Atkinson 2
                          Participant
                            @robertatkinson2

                            Where are you located John? If near I could bring over a rheostat and do some tests. I’ expect a value between 0.1 ohm and 5 ohms.
                            I checked my contemporary references and while they talk about the resistance none mention a value. Even if they did, very few garages, never mind owners would have had the ability to measure such low resistance. They would just change the unit.
                            If you aren’t near I could send you some fixed values to try.

                            Robert.

                            #855064
                            Nimble
                            Participant
                              @nimble

                              Hi John.

                              This site may be of interest to you, https://www.geocities.ws/pravgeusau/solidsta.htm. I have purchased the parts but as yet have not tried to assemble. I plan to use it on a SEV type DD3 dynastart.To me it seems a good idea.

                              Robert would you like to pass comment.

                              Nimble Neil.

                              #855412
                              Georgineer
                              Participant
                                @georgineer

                                If you can track down a copy, Automobile Electrical Repairs by E. Alber (E. & F.N. Spon, London, 1938) is very imformative, and was well-written by somebody who really knew his stuff.  I haven’t looked to see if it covers this exact question.

                                George

                                #855422
                                john fletcher 1
                                Participant
                                  @johnfletcher1

                                  Back yet again, I/we got an element, remove 6.5 ohms worth and by trial and error every thing is now as it should be, a VERY happy owner. Now, to George above, whilst according to my wife of nearly 70 years says, I have enough Auto electrical / electrical books, I have just bought a copy of Automobile Electrical Repairs by E. Alber (E. & F.N. Spon.

                                  The owner of the car didn’t want me to alter things by fitting an electronic voltage control to the dynamo or altering the dynamo to 2 brush either, third brush was  simple and really reliable in my experience.

                                  Many thank to all who responded to my request. John

                                  #855449
                                  renardiere7
                                  Participant
                                    @renardiere7

                                    Good result!

                                    #855486
                                    Robert Atkinson 2
                                    Participant
                                      @robertatkinson2

                                      Good to have a value for this. I guessimated way out by a factor of 20. It must be a small dynamo / low load.
                                      Was the 6.5 ohms with headlights on or off? Some cars had the resistor(s) connected to extra contacts on the light switch as the lights are a significant load.

                                      Robert.

                                      #855501
                                      duncan webster 1
                                      Participant
                                        @duncanwebster1

                                        Some British motorcycles of the 60s and 70s had a similar charge control, the alternator had 6 coils arranged radially with a rotating permanent magnet. With the headlight on all 6 were in circuit, with it off only 2 in circuit. Later on a power zenner diode was put across the output to limit the voltage. Crude but not a lot to go wrong, no brushes to wear at least. I can’t imagine it did the battery any good

                                        #855510
                                        John MC
                                        Participant
                                          @johnmc39344

                                          Slightly off topic, would the OP consider converting to 12 volts?   A friend did this with an Austin light 6.  If originality is important read no further!

                                          A modern 12 volt alternator was fitted.  The original (reproduction) wiring loom was not altered at all, as far as I can recall.  The dynamo wiring was disconnected, the original control gear was left in place in such a way that the original system could be reinstated easily.  12 volt bulbs fitted and modern direction indicators also fitted along with brake lights.  The other big change was the starter motor, a modern permanent magnet motor with the bendix mech grafted on to it.  A bit of a head scratcher but worth the effort.

                                          The 12 volt system coped much better with the occasional use the car gets, that is to say better battery charging.  Better lights.  Better starting.   My friend tells me reliability is good compared with what other owners seem to experience with the original setup.

                                           

                                          #855523
                                          Russell Eberhardt
                                          Participant
                                            @russelleberhardt48058
                                            On John MC Said:

                                            Slightly off topic, would the OP consider converting to 12 volts?   A friend did this with an Austin light 6.  If originality is important read no further!

                                            If you mean an Austin Light 12-6 that was originally fitted with a 12 V system.  I think the only 6 volt ones were the ten and the seven.  Converting an Austin 12-6 to use an alternator may well have made it more reliable although I never had any problems with the original electrics.

                                            Russell

                                            #855656
                                            Howard Lewis
                                            Participant
                                              @howardlewis46836

                                              I rewired my Singer 9, (someone had clamped a kirby grip across the terminals, to short out the resistors.) Reverting to the original 2 resistor set up got things workng as they should again.

                                              The 12volt dynamo could cope with the side / tail lights and two 36 watt headlamp bulbs, and even a 36 watt fog light!

                                              So, properly set up a third brush dynamo and the two resistor set up provided adequate lights, and kept the battery charged.

                                              Glad that you’ve got the system up and running again

                                              Howard

                                              #855687
                                              Clive Steer
                                              Participant
                                                @clivesteer55943

                                                The early electrical systems did not provide voltage regulation as this was largely provided by the lead acid battery. When this reached the fully charged state any excess current would be “boiled off” by the battery producing hydrogen and oxygen. So the ammeter shows whether the generation/load balance is correct. However a high ammeter current indication can be produced if a discharged battery is being recharged or the battery is being “boiled”. So the chauffeur would normally have a container of distilled water to refill the battery when need, which might be several time in a journey. This regular charge/discharge cycling meant batteries had fairly short lives and if a cell shorted the lights were dim and the generator was overloaded and failed if the chauffeur wasn’t on top of his game.

                                                Aren’t you glad that electronics now manages everything.

                                                Clive S

                                                #855934
                                                Howard Lewis
                                                Participant
                                                  @howardlewis46836

                                                  For cars of this era, with a third brush dynamo, the Off/Side/Head, switch and the two resistors provided the coarse regulation for battery charging.

                                                  “Off” – both resistoirs in series.

                                                  “Side” – one resistor shorted out, to mincrease the vomtage to cover the side/tail/instrument panel load.

                                                  “Head” – both reistors shorted out to produce maxumum charge for the headlights as well

                                                  The only other component was the cut out, which disconnected the dynamo from the battery at tick over, when the dynamo voltage would be lower than the battery voltage.

                                                  Howard

                                                   

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