Search Results for 'arc euro'

[DutchDanParticipant @dutchdan]

Thanks for the warm welcomes everyone.

Hopper, I've been looking around these forums quite a bit and generally it seems to me that both Warco and ArcEuro are reliable suppliers. I've dealt with ArcEuro for some small bits and bobs which was always fine.

Brian, I hope you have a lovely time! It's been a while since I've been back due to the circumstances. I've never used imperial in any capacity so I'll stick to metric myself.

David, I did see JB cutting tools mentioned several times (I've been browsing these forums for some time now) but it appears they are closed until spring 2022. I'm looking to start with HSS tooling as the consensus seems to be that it is more forgiving, and then getting a nicer set of indexable tooling at some other point. I've read some good things about Sumitomo? I've been looking at the Chester site as well, it seems quite a bit more industrial level, no prices on the website either.

Gep, nice to see a fellow Dutchie. Do you have anything to do with the TU or just happen to be a technically inclined person living in Delft?

Stevie, I do believe Grizzly sells these machines in the US. I think harbor freight may as well?

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Bear in mind that the chuck and arbor are sold separately. So, for example, Arceurotrade's two smallest chucks (keyed and keyless) can both be married to 2MT arbors.

Rod

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Link: Joint Square Edge Needle Files

It was discussed on this forum in 2018: Link

Link: Joint Round Edge Needle Files

Ketan at ARC

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 26/01/2022 17:51:13

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

I have only once needed to do something similar and I managed with a type 2 precision tool vice from Arc Eurotrade held in the saw vice and a toolmakers cramp to add some vertical security – but a definite bodge and one I hope not to have to repeat..

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Andrew,

Saracens Head IS a south Lincolnshire group, but they don't seem to have a website.

Maybe the Southern or Northern Federations might have contact details, if you ask

I am sure that if you start asking around Lincolnshire Model Engineering clubs, someone will have a contact..

Maybe someone on here will be able to put you in contact?

They exhibited at the now defunct Spalding Hobbies and Model Engineering Show., and occasionally have met someone who I recognise as a member, although do not know his name.

Mounting a 3 or 4 jaw chuck will require an adaptor which fits the Mandrel bore to carry the chuck.

Once you know what the bore is, a suitable adaptor can be made up (MT stub mandrels are available

(Arc EURO don't sell above 3 MT, but RDG offer a 4 MT. )

Being a Raglan, the mandrel bore may be 4 MT, as "read across" from the centre lathes..

Any info on the Lathes UK site?

Once a backplate is mounted on such an arbor, all machining should ensure that the register is square to the lathe axis, and concentric.

Capstan tooling will be automatically centred of the holder is dowelled to the Capstan head in some way and then bored / reamed from the mandrel..

HTH

Howard

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

According to the Arc Euro website, the rack for an old X2 is 280 mm long.

Arc doe list spares for these machines.

take a look to see what you need.

Howard

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

The reason why we had different wedges in our workshop was for the purpose checking different chucks on arbors.

Question for those who may know: In normal use environment, why would people need these wedge/s?, unless the JT/B taper is a permanent part of the spindle, or the wedge/s are being used in a muti-tool type assembly… such as the one used in a multi-purpose live centre set.

I mean, once the chuck and arbor are assembled correctly, why should there be a need to take the assembly apart?. If the chuck becomes faulty over time, it should be cheap enough nowadays to buy both the chuck and arbor NEW, doing away with any damage when taking the assembly apart.

Ketan at ARC

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You might also want to look at the spare one that ARC sell, this is longer than was fitted to some early machines from other sources and would be the right thickness and is also ready drilled

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Yes = I think the larger, blind holes are simply to take a finger-tip or the back end of a pencil, as in the old rotary telephone dials.

The video referred to earlier on shows someone rotating the dial but and manipulating the inner one but that doesn't really help us identify it, I'm afraid. It does show the two rotors are not geared together. Or if they were, it might have been by pins lost long ago. It also shows that at certain points certain holes line up, by revealing the writing-pad under the instrument. Unfortunately the operator had apparently no spotted it, and was turning it too rapidly for me to read it properly.

I've had a reply from the pharmacology historians.

They say it's not to do with medicine – adding that to music and textiles as trades it's not for. They did though suggest something I don't think has been looked at yet, that the instrument is not for working in one system, but for converting between two systems of… what? A measurement system now lost?

'

Start a new dig……

For example, one Vedro of water = 2.7 Imperial Gallons, as does 1 Eimer; but 1 Pood = 3.6 Imp. Gall.; and the Russian Fathom = 7 feet.

(I kid thee not: look in your copy of Fowler's Mechanics' & Machinists' Pocket Book, 1944. Page 30. )

Further rooting established the vedro and pood were Russian; the eimer, Austrian.

My source? I typed those three names and the word "measurement" into the search-bar and as much by luck as intelligent(!) guess, picked on A Manual of Commerce, by William Waterston.

The Google ad (which offers a printed version of this 19C book) opened a table titled General Table of Metrical Equivalents – to Imperial units. Note the adjective does not say or mean "metric". My choice of units was helpfully highlighted.

Only, Waterston gives the Eimer as 12.460 Imp. Gall in Austria, 15.118 Imp Gall in Prussia… While in Russia, 1 Pood was a mass unit = 36.10lbs avoirdupois ("have some peas" ). Ah – that makes sense: 1 Gall weighs 10lbs.

'

Were all these national units undergoing massive revisions even domestically by the 1944 date of Fowler's? It would be logical even without the late-19 and early-20C upheavals across Europe; and Waterston showing for example the Prussians and Rhinelanders had the Morgen (Ger. = "morning"?) for land area, but at 2.63 and 2.10 acres, respectively; while Austria used the Joch (1.42 acres)!

If you scroll up through the bewildering assortment shown in the sample pages, you find metrical evolution occurring in many lands even before the end of the 19C, and the Metric System was already making inroads. France herself invented the metre etc. because, as did other nations, she had suffered a centuries-old trade-by-region measurements conglomerate making even internal commerce increasingly difficult.

France was already metric as we know it, and it's hardly surprising their neighbours especially moved to copy post-Revolutionary France's m,g,l system. Yet she was still though one of several maritime countries using latitude variants of the League whose one length varied by country for nautical distances. For example, her sailors used:

Lea. 1º [divided by] 25. (The standard Nautical Mile now is 1º / 60.)

France also had a "myrametre" = 10km.

At least Britain's engagingly eccentric Imperial units were nation-wide; and the bushel, peck, grain etc were disappearing long before the official move to Metric, now SI, units. Though it lingers: the modern US Gallon was aapparently a 17C Old World, wine-trade version of the Gallon. 

So although this does not really get us much further forwards in identifying our neat little device, it does suggest it was really a units converter for merchants generally; but specific to two nation's national metrical or indeed currency units. Waterston shows currency too, was a complete tangle.

Which countries though?
The table shows an incredible labrynth.

'

Interesting that the decimal fractions above are 9s-based but I am not sure if or how they go with the fractions on our curio's scale. We'd need know, really, how the Eimer, Vedro, Pood etc. or other candidate units were sub-divided or multipled. Nor does it explain the 16-times table, but if this device is to suit a national scale, that might not be Russian or Austrian anyway.

Further ferreting, another book – Encylopedia of Scientific Units, Weights and Measures, Francoise Cardarelli, 2012. The Google review frustratringly omits the Russian page but does give a selection of other countries' ancient measures, in tables showing their sub-divisions and multiples. Intriguingly, very many did use ratios expressed (as indeed does Avoirdupois) in single-integer fractions; and some seem to match some of those on this calculator.

'

So I for one, inspired by the pharmacologists, am turning to thinking this was a units- or currency- converter for general commerce between two countries, not a special design tool.

'

Ref:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2ZUTtLOHd1MC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=vedro,+eimer,+pood+measurements&source=bl&ots=qntGtNswHe&sig=ACfU3U3KPmH_T-CGdOCwpBLcw1A8fCG4fA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiM7_DKurj1AhUSmVwKHU-XD74Q6AF6BAgeEAM#v=onepage&q=vedro%2C%20eimer%2C%20pood%20measurements&f=false

'

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 17/01/2022 11:08:19

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Stuart, besides the basic equipment, you will need end mills, lathe tools, drills, taps, dies, gas torch for silver soldering, possibly needle files, nice sharp files for brass, possibly a gauge and pump for home water boiler hydraulic testing, stuff for painting etc etc, the list goes on. Add to that list, chunks of metal, tubes, fittings, nuts and bolts, rivets etc. Don't be surprised if that lot adds up to more than the price of a lathe or mill.

I have just about completed a SPEEDY 5" loco using a Boxford and Warco Major mill. I had to replace the milling vice with an ARC Euro one (I like it) and purchase a low cost rotary table. Although I am retired, its taken me about 10 years to complete – there always seems something else that takes priority !

Bob

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

The ARC Eurotrade advert on this page is a very good place to look at machines and tooling. The owner, Ketan is also a member of this forum and has an excellent reputation for after sales service and advice.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

That Seig SX1LP mill recommended by SOD looks exactly right fot the type of work you are doing. The link to ARC Euro's site shows the space required for the mill which is also very important.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the forum. You can do a search on this site.

Have you found these on the Internet?

***Link***

***Link***

Thor

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Welcome to the forum Fred.

Your question's a bit awkward to answer because I'm not familiar with the scale you need, Normally, best advice is buy the biggest machine you can afford. It's because small machines can't do big work, most Model Engineers graduate upwards, and a big machine can be cajoled into doing tiny jobs.

However, anyone specialising in small work, clocks, O-Gauge model railways, and perhaps Zippo lighters is better off with a small lathe and mill because big machines doing small work are clumsy beasts. You don't want to get too close to the spinning chuck of a powerful mill even if it's necessary to look at the cut through a loupe.

I suggest putting 'quality' on the back-burner when comparing second-hand with new. When buying second-hand condition is everything, not how sooper-dooper a well-made machine was in 1948! Depending on a machine's history, condition could be anything between as-new and scrap. It's a bit of a minefield.

Now I know what to look for, I would want to see a second-hand machine cut metal before I bought it. There are plenty of good machines about, but don't be surprised if pre-loved turns out to be pre-abused. It could take time to find a good one, and repairs may be necessary too.

The advantage of buying new is wider choice, available now, with mostly well-behaved UK suppliers supporting you in the event you're unlucky enough to get a lemon. It does happen. However if the purchase goes spectacularly wrong, consumer protection applies when buying new.

The disadvantage is affordable new machines are all in the hobby class. They're made down to a price, and not as smoothly reliable as an ex-industrial machine in good nick. My experience of hobby machines has been positive. With one exception all mine worked first time out of the box, though they benefited from mild fettling. The exception didn't need any fettling! Driven with due care and attention, they do all I need. No problems after 7 years.

Boils down to how risk averse you are and if you want to get on with it rather than explore what's available second-hand at the moment. Second-hand is more of a gamble and takes longer unless you strike lucky.

Order new, and the machine will be delivered. You might discover a new hobby mill isn't good enough for what you need. If so, sell or return it and return to the second-hand market. Having understood why the new mill didn't cut the mustard, you're much better placed to spot what's wrong with dodgy second-hand gear.

About 5 years ago I looked at a Chinese micro-mill and decided it was too weedy and wobbly. The next size up was more solid I thought. Today I'd be tempted by a Seig SX1LP (brushless motor) which can do 5000rpm. High speed is an advantage in small lathes and mills,

Dave.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

There's plenty of options from warco, Chester, axminster, arc euro etc but imo the quality can be hit and miss.

Since the work you are doing is small scale a Sherline mill might be suitable. You should have plenty of budget for both the mill and tooling.

Hobbymat make a decent little mill, and the quality is better than most of the Chinese stuff being of German manufacture. They are relatively inexpensive if you can find one. The only bad point is the round column.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

that has plenty of backlash, can't lock its X&Y axes and seems like it's well past its prime.

You may be correct, but also it may only need proper adjustment and some much needed maintenance. As an already operating machinist/hobbyist, you should be able to determine which it is – out of adjustment or worn out.

Buying a machine for one specific duty may not be the best plan of action – unless on a production line.

My smaller mill is a Raglan – certainly not worn out and in good order, as it was only used in a tool-room environment, for prototyping and other small precision jobs, during its ‘working’ life.

The SX3, from Arceurotrade (a well respected supplier) is within your budget – but do remember that tooling can be a considerable extra cost.

My Raglan, while a delightful machine, was known to be not large enough for many of my milling antics but It still gets used a lot – and will not be leaving my workshop while I can still use it!

There may be more to life than zippo lighters in the future? Best to take this into account when you consider your options.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

The toolposts listed look to be Dickson clones. Whilst they work well, making extra holders is not straight forward.

I use an Aloris clone Arc Euro model 200 or 222. These take 16mm tooling and will fit your lathe. The holders are (I believe ) cheaper and certainly easier to make.

Whilst I agree that QCTP's are not always quicker to go from tool to tool, they do make life easier if using a DRO (and you have enough holders).

I wouldn't be without mine!

Regards.

David.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Not that many manufactures but lots of brands! Most of the Warco, Chester, Amadeal, SPG are variations on a theme made by Weiss. The other manufacturers are Sieg (Arc, Axminster) and Some of the European manufacturers/finishers like Optimum and Wabeco. If you want Wabeco you need deep pockets. If not one of these then you are looking for good used but these are often ex-industrial and a bit larger. (Further thoughts on milling machines *** HERE ***)

John

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by br on 12/01/2022 10:57:02:

Posted by John Haine on 12/01/2022 09:49:10:

You can buy a small mill for that price!

That sounds a much better bet to me.

Quill stroke 24mm

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by John Haine on 12/01/2022 09:49:10:

You can buy a small mill for that price!

But they're different types of tools, and are built for very different use:

the drill here was intended for industry, to be bolted to a bench, used for hours every day and every few years get a new belt, a squirt of oil and the motor blown out. That example is a bit expensive, but it needs nothing and buying it could save lots of time finding a cheaper one.

the £700 mill is going to be a lightweight machine for hobby use, where annual usage is often be counted in a few hours – like mine.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

You can buy a small mill for that price!

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I'd rate the chances of finding jaws as pretty low, and if the rest of the chuck is worn, then there's not much point.

Probably the best approach is to get a backplate that's pre-machined to fit the spindle nose, then machine it to fit a new chuck. It's not difficult, as I managed to do it successfully. Main benefit would be that you could spend as much or as little on the chuck as you want to.

Many suppliers are available, Arc Euro have some nice ones that are reportedly decent qualty (or fit for purpose, as SOD would say).

Rob

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Interesting range of viewpoints on several subjects in this thread now.

As an ex cyclist, I think anyone attempting to fight it out with modern day traffic is clearly bonkers, even though the law seems to be on the cyclist's side! No good telling St Peter you had the right of way!

When I towed a caravan many years ago, it was other traffic that held me up. I took it to many countries in Europe including mountain ranges. If you have the right towing vehicle for whatever you tow, you won't get into trouble.

It seems to me that vans belonging to Amazon and the like can, and do whatever they like. They work all hours with no control such as tacho's. The only code they seem to have is to deliver as many parcels in one day, as quickly as possible. An unfair side of the law IMO when compared to lorry drivers

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A 100 mm chuck on a HV4 seems a bit big to me.

A HV4 suggests a fairly small mill, so it would use a lot of headroom.

On my HV6, with a 2 MT bore, I fit a smaller chuck, with a Myford thread 3 or 4 jaw, and a Myford / 2 MT adaptor.

For a flange mounted chuck, you could make your own adaptor.

Take a suitable thickness plate, face it, .

Bore a register in the centre. See later for possible size.

Buy a 2MT stub arbor, and turn a short length (Same as the thickness of the plate ) to produce an interference fit in the bore in the plate. Think in terms of 0.001" for a 1" diameter (0.025 mm for a 25 mm bore

Put the plate int the freezer overnight.

Put the plate into the oven and cook for a couple of hours at gas Mark 6

Carefully retrieve plate and drop 2 MT arbor into the machined side of the hole, and tap home.. It should be an easy sliding fit, until everything warms up! Hopefully the two will then be inseparable.

Locate the 2 MT arbor in the lathe by the taper, and face the unmachined side of the plate, and any of the arbor that may be protruding a little.

Turn the the plate to produce a register which is a snug fit bin the register of your chosen chuck

Turn the OD to suit the chosen chuck..

The Register and OD should then be concentric with he taper.

Make up pointed screws so that the position of the holes can be determined.

The Arc Euro catalogue gives dimensions of the chucks for mini lathes (Register and mounting hole PCDs )

Drill the clearance holes.

You should then be ready to mount your chosen chuck onto the Rotary Table.

Be warned.

If you use any form of drawbar to hold the taper in to the table, IN THE VERTICAL POSITION, it will be possible to remove the arbor from the RT by slackening the drawbar and tapping the end with a mallet, to break the taper.

In the HORIZONTAL position, without removing the RT from the table of the Mill, this will be impossible.

HTH

Howard

[Mike DonnerstagParticipant @mikedonnerstag]

John: Apologies – I didn't explain myself well. According to the 'Warco head shake' post, Old Mart posted the following:

"I remember plunging a 1/4" slot drill about 1/4" deep and getting a hole 0.015" oversize. Changing the cutter resulted in a hole only 0.001" oversize, yet there didn't seem to be much difference in the sharpness."

From this, I assumed that it must be the cutter geometry that is different between the two 2-flute cutters. I watched JasonB's Youtube video that showed a trouble-free plunge using the z-axis, again surmising that it was the quality of my cutters that may be at fault.

Also, I should have changed the word 'lower' to 'move' as this obviously only applies to the Z-axis and not the X-axis.

By 'fully enclosed' I mean that the slot starts and ends within the metal. The cut was blind (not through) and about 5mm deep overall. I took this to depth in 0.5mm passes.

In a previous post, JasonB explains that ArcEuro recommend using the quill feed for plunging, rather than the Z-axis. Having tried both, at least using the poor quality bit I have, it was evident that the quill feed was more controllable.

JasonB: Many thanks for your advice. That's exactly what I should have done. Can you also mill the slot using the 3-flute cutter, or would you switch to the 2-flute?