Search Results for 'arc euro'

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Hopper on 19/06/2022 10:00:45:

And to be fair, Neil's book is more about modern lathes, not the vintage Atlas the OP has, hence the recommendations for equally ancient books that address the foibles/needs of machines past.

You are correct up to a certain point Hopper.

The observations we have made resulted in the books for beginners. I will explain:

The old books for the older machines have their place. They were written by engineers, for engineers – many of whom had full time engineering jobs – training / apprenticeships, and who were thought metalwork on mills and lathes in school. So most of the readers of such books had a good chance of understanding what they were reading, especially the terminology.

As metalwork started to get phased out of schools, new people wishing to use a lathe or mill started to have problems. You only have to stand and observe such people at shows watching a demonstration on a lathe or mill on the SMEE demo stand, to see the puzzlement in their eyes, desire to ask questions but failing to do so for fear of looking stupid. You could also see that a lot of the terminology spoken by the demonstrators going over their viewers head.

Many of these new people buy the old second hand lathes, along with the well respected old school books mentioned above, or watch You Tube. Some get on great, and some don't. A good percentage of these new people have a lot of enthusiasm, but have yet to figure out what is a headstock, tailstock, centre – dead/live/revolving/rolling tailstock arbor and so on. We know this based on the telephone calls we get – especially from new buyers who have very limited ideas about the tools they are buying…. at last one call a day!

Such new people have had zero training at school/collage. They are unable to join a club for various personal reasons, but they want to make something. The titles sold by ARC, written by Neil and Jason specifically Lathework for Beginners and Milling for Beginners are directed at such an audience. A good percentage of the people who have purchased these books from us have old lathes, along with the old books. After understanding the basics in the beginner books we sell, it helps them understand the older books better.

In the U.S., we successfully distribute these two titles through Little Machine Shop. A good percentage of their customers have old mills and lathes too, and they too found the same results as we did. Like Jason, they mentioned that the modern books suggest alternative products or updated tooling/terminology to what is suggested in the old books.

In my opinion, the new books complement the old.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 19/06/2022 11:15:39

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Ignorance is bliss, never realised my edge finder might need lubricating! Still OK after 8 years neglect. Mine is a type C in this picture pinched from ArcEuro.

If oil is needed at all, I guess one sold for a delicate mechanism, light, slippery and not prone to gumming.  Clock or Sewing Machine Oil might do.

WD40 is good for cleaning and loosening sticky mechanisms, but the lube effect soon wears off and it leaves a sticky layer that collects muck. GT85 probably has the same problem: it's a combination lubricator and protective, and protective layers are bad news for delicate mechanisms. I'm suspicious of dry silicone on an edge finder for the same reason.

Slide-way oil is far too sticky, and I'd avoid anything containing vegetable oil because they tend to gum up. (Household oil such as 3 in 1 etc.)

Never come across electric razor oil, sounds promising though.

Or do you mean the ball-type?

Got a set of these, but don't use them much. As the balls are a bit sticky on my version the chuck's grip has to be carefully adjusted so they're neither too tight or too loose. A drop of any old oil might help, dunno.

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 18/06/2022 09:10:16

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I don’t have this lathe, but if you are looking at Arceurotrade, they have a very good rating/reputation. They are my go-to for most things I buy.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A practicl way to find out is to take the make a number of short studs with sharply pointed ends (Or buy them fro Arc Euro mused to offer them ).

Screw the studs into the chuck, blue a plate (Fit a central pillar if you like, and rotate the chuck around it. The pointed studs should mark a circle which t you can then measure.

The PCD is unlikely to be anything other than a whole number of mm, on a Metric machine, (AS the OP found ) or a sensible fraction or decimal part of an inch on an Imperial machine.

Howard

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you want to buy, rather than make one, Arc Euro used to offer something similar.

I made one for my Mill from a length of square steel, cut to length and with close fitting end cheeks of gauge plate.

Each of the three sections, (Fixed, Moving and Forcing ) was secured to the table with capscrews and Tee nuts. The forcing screw was a 1/2 – 20 UNF setscrew with a 3/4 A/F head.

I think that some time ago it featured in MEW as "My Biggest Vice"i

HTH

Howard

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Y C Lui on 15/06/2022 08:15:09:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 14/06/2022 15:10:15:

Interesting how good a mechanical edge finder is, ten times more accurate than a laser pointer!

…

I haven't tried the cigarette paper + oil method but I have tried tapes. The method works but if the tool is not an end mill or the part of the workpiece being touched is not a flat surface, it is not usable. Just some examples that I have come across :

– The pointed tip of a chamfering tool touching the workpiece surface

– The end of an end mill touching the corner of a workpiece clamped at an angle

– The tip of a boring tool touching the inner surface of a hole

I recommend cigarette paper, but you're right – it's not always suitable. I don't know of a single way of locating edges, marked out lines, and holes etc, even without having to account for odd tool or workpiece geometries.

I've been investigating a point made by Ramon Wilson in another thread were he claims centre-finding with a DTI is more accurate than doing so with an edge-finder. He could well be right and I'm nowhere near proving otherwise. However, one source, without explaining why not, simply says 'you can't accurately centre find a hole with a DTI mounted in the spindle'. Then goes on to describe:

• a flexible arm arrangement that clamps above the spindle, allowing a DTI to be used with the cutter inserted and ready to go
• a 'coaxial centre indicator', alias 'Dial coaxial centering Indicator' like this example from ArcEuro. These look much easier and faster to use than the DTI on an arm arrangement. (Anyone able to confirm this, I've not used either system.)

Both methods are comparative, that is no actual measurements are taken. The instrument is considered centred when the dial registers no movement as the spindle rotates. Accuracy is limited by the mechanisms ability to amplify tiny movements up through a sticky gear train and then shift the dial needle far enough for the operator to see it. A well-made instrument would outperform a cheap one, but neither would impress a metrologist! Fortunately, none of the machining I do has to be accurate within measured tolerances: my parts only have to fit together, and I don't provide interchangeable spares!

Dave

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

ArcEurotrade or the Dasqua 60 or 80 kg ones both work fine for me – and are much, much cheaper..

For lathe-work I tend to use either a bar-mount held in the toolpost, or occasionally one on a post bolted to the back of the cross-slide..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As Thor says an 80mm would be about right on that sort of size machine. I use one of these 80mm versatile ones on the CNC and with a bit of a change of jaws will also hold larger work for light machining so you only need the one. I don't use my vices with the swivel base in place unless there is the rare need to.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Both Warco and Arc has 80mm milling vices, that you may suit your needs. You can remove the swivel base if needed.

Thor

[Steve Dunthorne 1Participant @stevedunthorne1]

When I purchased my Tormach 770MX (it was delivered April 2021) I had absolutely no idea I would, by November that year, be tapping away at my keyboard writing about the experience. Genuinely, I was driven to write down the details of all that I experienced along the journey, when it became apparent to me just how complex it had become, how interesting I had found the process, and wanting to share this for the benefit of others. Trust me when I report to you, writing a technical book with a very narrow target audience is not going to make anyone rich – it is a vanity project if it is nothing more.

Being quite a ‘techy’ sort of chap, once I decided I wanted a CNC machine, I researched the options extensively. As anyone who frequents this forum will realise, buying this sort of machine is not a matter of popping into B&Q and so my book “starts at the beginning” as they say. Literally I record the decision making process for buying the machine and it’s options, to the last detail.

Now although early on in that process I decide on the Tormach, and hence the options for it are all Tormach options by default, I would say many of the points raised are generic and may be considered useful discussion items for buying a different make of mill.

The point is I have tried hard to make this a “chatty” and readable path down which you, the reader, and I, the writer, amble together. Hopefully, in this way, this feels like a “good read” rather than a stiff technical instruction tome. In effect, we end up building the machine together as a team, and then learning how to take the first tentative steps to cutting metal on it, side by side. I have been told by a few people who have read the book, they liked this style.

But I am not an author – I am a bloke with a fancy machine in the garage who thought he might have a go at writing about it. I am quite pleased with the end result, and by the way, I do think the book looks great in paperback, it is a weighty document in the hand, something you lose appreciation for in the “kindle effect” in my humble opinion.

If I were to write it again, I would make a significant change. I made the mistake of writing the book in its entirety in metric. The second half of the book goes into quite a lot of detail on feeds and speeds and specifically this sort of thing needs to be written in metric for UK and Europe, but in imperial “inches, pound-feet and horsepower” for our cousins in the North American continent. The two systems are mutually exclusive. Many manual machine enthusiasts in the UK will undoubtedly still use imperial units on their machines, I know, but I doubt there are many people in the UK running CNC in imperial.

So if metric suits you, then I believe there is a lot of information contained within which might add to your knowledge of CNC when you come to it as a novice. Every book needs to find its target. This one is not for experts. It is an introduction. Fundamentally, the message is you can buy one of these machines and, with the support of forums, books and the internet, teach yourself how it works from scratch. Those readers intending to set up a CNC machine running in imperial units will find some sections less useful, but the basic messages contained within will always be true. As the sub-title of the book suggests, this journey I have recorded will take you through to “relative competence” so do not think this is merely a cursory glance at things. I go into quite a lot of detail.

At the risk of annoying some (see above), please feel free to take a peek at http://www.blurringtheedges.co.uk where there is a little more detail. I really hope this book can be seen for what it is, and as others have alluded to, that it potentially fills a gap in the market for this sort of book.

I hope I haven’t offended anyone. Genuinely. Thanks for reading this far.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

David,

As has already been said, it is all a matter of measurement. Take into account the size of your tooling, height of the toolpost mounting surface to centre height and compare with the dimensions for a given QCTP. For example, my lathe is a generic 9 x 20 Asian clone and I use a model 000 wedge-type from Uncle Ketan's Emporium. I'm very pleased with it. Have a google for videos on YouTube. There are several on there that explain the method of selecting the correct size.

Wedge-type QCTP Model 000

That page also has links to articles on fitting such a toolpost to either a mini lathe or a Myford, so I'm pretty sure that size would suit your Zyto.

I dare say you could get away with a larger one, but I don't see any benefit to be gained by doing so.

John

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 01/06/2022 17:15:47:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DUS332148A

If you zoom in on the bottom left quadrant of the photo, it says 'improvements patented in Europe Dec 1885'.

Is it possible to find that one?

[Laurie WParticipant @lauriew39626]

I have found that needle and precision files by Vallorbe, Grobet or Baiter from Switzerland and those made in Germany by Dick (identified by a stylised arrow symbol) have all proved excellent over many years of frequent use. However when it comes to diamond files my experience has been a bit different. Whilst beautifully made my Vallorbe diamond files have proved disappointing in use as they lose their coating rather quickly. I no longer buy them and instead use those supplied by Arc Euro Trade which don't look as nice but perform far better and are far cheaper. Eternal Tools also sell diamond files which may be worth a try – their other tools have proved themselves to be good.

Edited By Laurie W on 27/05/2022 11:13:53

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

How about Vallorbe?

This set on Amazon, yours for only £138.30! Beware of asking for 'best quality' unless stinking rich.

Arc Euro manage to find and sell mid-range tools at reasonable prices; I've done ok with the other UK model engineering suppliers as well.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I provded the part number and that is how I found the Cromwell one when searching, there are a few more about in mainland Europe but post etc will likely take them up to a similar price so depends on how much Bill needs the adaptor.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Ball oilers are interference fit in a plain bore, Drip feed or cup oilers are likely to need a threaded hole, so you will need to make adaptors.. And will stand proud of the surface.

Will this mean that they get sheared off at extremes of travel?

I have had ball oilers on my Warco Mill/Drill for nearly 30 years, anon my Engineers ToolRoom lathe for almost 20 without problems.

And I tend to be fairly heavy handed.

Maybe the OEM fittings were built down to a price, rather than to a quality?

FWIW, my advice would be replace with ones bought from Arc Euro, or Warco. They might be more durable.

If you break those, it might be the treatment that they get.

What sort of oil gun are you using? and how vigorously?.

Howard

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Have a look at this, Steve : **LINK**

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/MYF001/myford-cstb-mod.html

Now … use your imagination, and visualise it operating in the Z-axis

That would surely be a good basis for your design.

Note: I have never seen the actual Cowells unit dismantled.

MichaelG.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Stephen, my thoughts as a builder of a (great!) Tich.

– People will tell you "YES!" or "NO!" but it is totally your choice. Build what you want to build, and you are young so you'll learn skills that will take you through life. Would I build another Tich – yes. (it might be higher on the list than readers here think)

– I started my Tich when I was 14 and living in Southern Ontario, and did not finish it for a while. Teen years, university etc got in the way, but finally finished it when I was living in Europe.

– It has run in The Netherlands (has Dutch boiler certificate), Vancouver Island, tracks in Ontario and Quebec, Winnipeg, and down in the North East of USA. One track was the Waushakum Live Steamers, if you google this, it is quite the track, but after one lap I'd have to stop and empty the grate and smokebox.

– Yes, I fly on airlines with it. So long as it goes through the x-ray machine, no problem. I took the box to the local airport at a quiet time and the security people there were great at helping me, it meant no problems for me or them during a busy time.

– I have some Welsh steam coal. No problem with 2 adults (one quite large) on the flat Winnipeg track. Or two (me and a teenage lady) on the Vancouver Island Model Engineers track.

– saying that, it is a difficult locomotive to fire. If you like challenges (I do!) you might find it a fun challenge.

– I liked that I could run for a bit, then stop. I like talking to people, and model engineers, and those hangers-on are sometimes the most interesting people you can meet.

– I have a large 3-1/2" gauge 2-8-2 that I find quite boring to drive. It needs a big load behind it, but club rules say "no passengers on the elevated track". The Tich wins in terms of "fun".

– Don't use BA threads. Very expensive for us in North America. I now use metric, but UNC/UNF may be more appropriate for you? I started down the metric path when living in Europe, and have stuck with it.

– Oil burner conversion. If you can get your hands on these articles, you may find it interesting, as good coal is hard to get in North America (and, increasingly, everywhere else)

1994, Vol.172, Issue 3966, page 435. Original descriptive article with drawings.

1994, Vol.172, Issue 3970. page 670. Editorial: Clarification as to fuel to be used.

1997, Vol.179, Issue 4047, page 144. Update: blast nozzle increased to 2.9mm diam., pseudo brick arch added (with drawing of arch), importance of lubrication.

– Others have given you ideas on tools. If you are in the USA, (or Canada) you may find Sherline tools to be a good choice. I have a new Sherline lathe and mill.

– My favourite lathe is my old EMCO Compact-8. I do have a large British 11×24 lathe, but it's too big, and rarely gets used (every 5 years or so). The Sherline is new to me, so still getting used to it; it is more capable than I had expected.

– I have mentioned this before, but there is a fellow on modelenginemaker.com called Chris Rueby (username "cruelly&quot, who builds masterpieces with his Sherline equipment. Going through his builds will give you tons of ideas.

– The IBLS web page has recently put up CAD renderings of Tich, including some adjustments found during the CADing. Peek at that if you have a moment.

I've attached a picture of me and a fellow finishing a lap of the Winnipeg track. It was a fun lap – with heavy riding car (with propane tank, car was borrowed) and two medium to heavy lads, I was glad that the track was flat – long but flat – but Tich made it no problems. I think that I was the only run firing with coal that weekend, and I had the smallest locomotive by far. Propane was the fuel of choice there/then. And, yes, there is a Tich at the head end there!

John.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you all – interesting replies.

Quite a number of CAD users say they find 3D drawing natural because real things are three-dimensional. I can appreciate that, but when you look at an object at eye-level you see only one elevation of it; and we usually need orthographic elevations in the workshop anyway.

For some, this might come from plunging straight into 3D-first packages (like Fusion) with no previous manual drawing experience – fair enough but to me, the long way round as you still need the 2D workshop drawings. The ease of extracting those depends on the particular make of CAD: I have never discovered how in TurboCAD.

It is common now for part-drawings to hold a small isometric rendering next to the elevations, to help you visualise what you are making. I encountered this first at work, and later found Hemingway Kits use the same practice.

Also of course intact, exploded and cut-away isometric drawings have been around for years – think as widely as the Haynes manuals (and for my fellow bus-pass holders) the splendid cut-aways of liners etc in The Eagle!

It is possible to examine for fits, clearances etc in orthographic drawings, despite what some imply; though it's not always easy.

Dave –

Your comments about 3D in Solid Edge, Fusion and generally, show only how complicated the whole field is! Words like "Synchronous" are the sort I meant in my remarks about the SE web-site, which suggests you need already know all about it in order to learn it.

.

Fusion put me off by its presentation: an aura of TV glitter meets Inner Circle arcanity; and sheer difficulty with no real manuals available. It was free for hobby use but I don't know if still. I tried it but made no progress.

Various other "free" CAD packages on-line were all very limited "trial" or "student" versions of full editions. Many concentrate on garden designs, electrical circuits and even (for the Powerpoint Presentation addicts?) flow-charts. I found a promising one for mechanical engineering, I forget its name, but that soon proved a trial version with even basic moves shown but switched off.

'

Obviously we all have our own ways and rates of learning anything difficult, and as some point out, often things suddenly "click". I believe we also have individual capacity limits that vary from subject to subject; and which cannot be exceeded however much more you try to cram in. As a rough analogy, it's like trying to put 5000 gallons of water in a 4000 gallon tender: the extra just overflows into the ballast. So I could well have used up all the neurons available for CAD!

Videos: Most seemed just publisher's experts showing what the programme can do and how easy it is for him. Not how to make it easy for me. Nor can you readily stop or refer back all over the place, as you can with a static manual.

Here, TurboCAD's UK agent, Paul (The CAD) Tracy scores by making pdf training "books" – mine came on a CD along with the IMSI CD itself. You can work at it page by page, though still hampered by the constant switching back and forth when you have only one screen available! (I bought TurboCAD from Paul's stand at one of the exhibitions, but I see he's not advertised in the magazine for the last 3 or 4 years at least – for whatever reason.)

Similarly, the MEW Alibre series walked you gently through the first steps; and invited you to experiment further: I did, easily enlarging and recessing that scribing-block base for better stability! Then I missed the next two or three in trying to subscribe to MEW, hence lost it all. I removed the software and registration but that didn't stop a cascade of advertising material for nearly a year afterwards.

'

YouTube Videos…

I used to follow citations on this Forum to various engineering videos, but abandoned it after Google started ruining them with idiotic, irrelevant advertisements every minute.

++++

I have not given up on CAD entirely but don't use it as much as I had wanted to do. It would be pointless trying to learn a totally new package, especially one insisting on the difficulties of a 3D-first approach.

I can use TurboCAD to a moderately functional point, in 2D; but its 3D mode is extremely difficult although as its Users' Forum gallery shows, it is extremely powerful; and typically depicts an object as a whole, not as lumps with obvious glue-lines. So I leave its 3D mode to occasional images of simple, symmetrical objects – of no practical use. Like my welding, I use it as little as possible because I am too poor at it for any real use.

I still have a very basic Blundell-Harling, A3 drawing-board (I think still being manufactured) – and the advantage of manual drawing is that however old they are, the methods are universal and not seriously out-of-date!

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/05/2022 07:38:09:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 04/05/2022 21:13:17:

3 holders are nowhere near enough.

Tony

You,ve (clearly?) not looked at the Arceuro offerings? Tool post separate, or with 3 tool holders.🙂🙂

The school has a mill. Both gears, and extra tool holders, should not be difficult to make? It’s what I did.

They also sell single tool holders which I have purchased in the past, also bought directly from China & I did make one special holder for a cut knurling tool so I have a fair idea of the options.

Tony

[Tristan LuscombeParticipant @tristanluscombe46103]

Good morning folks,

 

More fabulous advice on here, thank you all! I will check out Toolco and ArcEuro today. The idea of a toothed belt instead of gears is fascinating, I will definitely read up on that.

We do indeed have a Senior M1 mill and since its service last week where it had some links removed from the drive belt it now cuts metal!

I can't begin to say how much I appreciate the help and knowledge you're all sharing with me, your input will be instrumental in getting this department back up to where it should be.

 

ETA: Incidentally, I'm in Ickenham, Middlesex.

Edited By Tristan Luscombe on 05/05/2022 08:44:46

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 04/05/2022 21:13:17:

3 holders are nowhere near enough.

Tony

You,ve (clearly?) not looked at the Arceuro offerings? Tool post separate, or with 3 tool holders.🙂🙂

The school has a mill. Both gears, and extra tool holders, should not be difficult to make? It’s what I did.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I would not (but a school might) buy a set such as shown. I would buy only the tool post and, say, three tool holders, initially. I bought a full set when I bought mine and have regretted it🙂 .

You give no indication of your locality/area. Arceurotrade, near Leicester, are a very much favoured (by the forum) supplier for all sorts of machinery and accessories. Ian is a very helpful and knowledgeable person to speak to. Likely better prices than some other suppliers for the same or similar items, as well.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to the forum. Amazone has Boxford backplates and you can of course, get backplates from UK companies like Warco, Arc etc. delivery cost may be high though.

Thor

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

The important bit from the littlemachineshop page is this: ISO: CCMW060204 HSS

That is the International code for the insert. The other code, the ANSI one, is used mainly in the US, but they are complete equivalents.

The carbide equivalent of the HSS insert is CCMT060204, so any holder that will take this insert code will fit what you have.

ArcEuroTrade's own brand holders and the Sumitomo brand they also offer will fit.

This page is good for the holder codes: https://www.cutwel.co.uk/blog/learn-the-turning-tool-iso-code-system

You will need to look for something that goes SCxChyyz06 where x is the holder style, h is the hand of the holder, yy is the shank height and width and z the length. The other parts of the code are specific to the insert used, which you already have, and thus do not have a choice.

For instance, a standard, right hand turning and facing holder with a 16mm shank would be SCLCR1616H06