Martin Cleeve Swing Clear Retracting Toolholder

[Roger HarveyParticipant @rogerharvey92595]

Can anyone steer me in the right direction where i can find details and drawings for Martin Cleeve's Swing Clear Retracting Toolholder. There are plenty of pictures of this but I cannot find where it was published. I have the Model Engineer magazine issues where he describes his original non-retracting version.

Regards All,

Wychwar

[Roger HarveyParticipant @rogerharvey92595]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I think it's in his little book "Screwcutting in the lathe". I'll check next time I'm in the workshop.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Try here, Roger … I re-posted the link earlier today

**LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=168193&p=2

MichaelG.

[herbert punterParticipant @herbertpunter99795]

Roger,

Hemingway do kits and drawings for the retracting toolholder and it’s definitely in ‘Screwcutting In The Lathe’

Bert

 

 

Edited By herbert punter on 03/10/2020 21:15:54

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That’s the Geo. H. Thomas one isn’t it, Bert ?

MichaelG.

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/10/2020 20:45:49:

Try here, Roger … I re-posted the link earlier today

**LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=168193&p=2

MichaelG.

This is another old post of yours linking to his patent:

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=139985

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Yep.

Geo. H. Thomas did the Retracting Toolholder.

Martin Cleeve did the Swing Clear one.

Tubal Cain did a stop system for Myfords, probably adaptable to others, that limited retraction via the cross slide handle giving essentially the same result.

SouthBends, and maybe Boxfords, along with some others are equipped to take a threading stop clamping to the cross slide ways setting both retraction via the handle and, somewhat crudely, threading depth.

They all get you to the same place in practice.

I decided to do without extra bits and learned the zero-2-zero method.

For some folk one considerable restriction of Martins original Swing Clear tool holder is that it completely replaces the normal tool post. Not compatible with four way blocks or QC systems although it can be revised to fit at the cost of considerable extra overhang. It would work well as part of the quick change (two slot?) block system I've been known to advocate.

Martin made his living with a seriously modified and upgunned Myford so threading and other jobs needing the swing clear holder were batch processes with many parts to do. Switching toolposts was of little consequence.

But if you only have one or two threads to do ….

I have just finished a batch of 6 threaded parts needing 5 tools for each. The swing clear would have been totally impractical for that job.

Clive

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Best one I ever saw didn't even need retracting

he reversed his lathe and it lifted the tool up

back to the start… stop the lathe… and it dropped back into the same start position

…clever

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Ady1,

When I got my first mill, several years ago, I made one of these from Mike Cox's design,as an exercise in milling. I don't think I ever used it in anger, but it still sits on the shelf above the lathe, waiting to pounce on some unsuspecting piece of stock.

John

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

I have a pair of swing-up holders (one in use) purchased secondhand, and a bit 'agricultural'. Very handy for allowing easy dimension checks and resetting centre height for different tool sizes. John 'bog-standard' made an example of the self-retracting holder on another forum and seemed very enthusiastic.

rgds

Bill

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Any videos of the Martin Cleeve tool holder in action?

John

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Ady1 on 04/10/2020 00:47:41:

Best one I ever saw didn't even need retracting

he reversed his lathe and it lifted the tool up

back to the start… stop the lathe… and it dropped back into the same start position

…clever

Hi Ady1, might this be the one you mean Flip up threading tool

Regards Nick.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

I remember assisting Dr John Beddard with some technical details of the Prototype for Hemingway's on the Martin Cleeve Retracting Tool Holder. I know this was after Neil Hemingway sold the business, someone Lyons springs to mind. John may have even written it up for SMEE at the time.

The Toolholder was listed with Hemingway's, as I remember the photographs that were used which were taken by John. I also seem to recall some 3D views of this somewhere, may-be the front cover of Martin's book.

The basic mode of operation was an eccentric in the tool block which initially retracted the tool. I cannot remember if the handle would also swing the tool clear, or if this was a separate manual operation.

Regards

Gray,

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This appears to be Hemingway’s current version: **LINK**

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Retracting_Tool_Holder.html

… Which is quite unlike Cleeve’s ‘Swing Clear’

Did they also do that one ^^^ ?

MichaelG.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/10/2020 13:59:53:

This appears to be Hemingway’s current version: **LINK**

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Retracting_Tool_Holder.html

… Which is quite unlike Cleeve’s ‘Swing Clear’

Did they also do that one ^^^ ?

MichaelG.

Yes, but machined from solid rather than fabricated in the MC way.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

My Hemingway kit version (of the Martin Cleeve ) retracts the tool, and lifts as it retracts.

If I forget to retract the tool, when the lathe is reversed, the tool is swung up so that it does not cut.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 04/10/2020 14:26:50

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 04/10/2020 14:10:57:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/10/2020 13:59:53:

[…]

Did they also do that one ^^^ ?

MichaelG.

Yes, but machined from solid rather than fabricated in the MC way.

.

Thanks for that … I was not aware

**LINK**

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/cgi-bin/sh000029.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ehemingwaykits%2ecom%2facatalog%2fRetracting_Tool_Holder%2ehtml&WD=swing&PN=Swing_Tool_Post%2ehtml%23aHK_201630#aHK_201630

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Nearly sure "Marlco" had a version of the swing up on the market.

Regards Ian.

[egaParticipant @ega]

By way of a belated PS to this thread, I have just completed the Hemingway version of the Martin Cleeve design and plan to use it semi-permanently mounted to its own topslide. It could, of course, also be used on a solid riser block after the current fashion, eliminating the topslide.

I was surprised to see an original Thorcraft (ie MC one) online at £595 and amazed that it was marked as “SOLD”.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

 

For anyone disappointed that the forum migration failed …

Martin Cleeve’s ‘swing-clear’ can be found here:

https://archive.org/details/PopularMechanics1976/Popular%20Mechanics-04-1976/page/n105/mode/1up

MichaelG.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Maybe a little off-topic, but the mention of Martin Cleeve reminded me of a late friend who was a regular correspondent of MC. Cleeve gave my friend the drawings for his retracting tapping device that utilised a modified bicycle Sturmey-Archer gearbox. The device was briefly described in ME (17th May 1962, Vol.126, No. 3175) but no really detailed construction or operational notes were given.

I passed the original drawings on to the late Chris Deith in the hope that some greater detailed article might be published and I know Mr. Deith passed the drawings to one of his contributors but nothing further happened AFAIK. I have no idea as to whether the drawings are still extant, have been lost to time or if anyone else ever built the device. My late friend always regarded Cleeve as a model engineering genius as anyone who has read his book ‘Screwcutting in the Lathe’ might agree.

It would be interesting to know if the drawings that I passed on still exist or anyone else ever built the device. I have a PDF copy of the ME article and if anyone would care to PM me with their email address I would be happy to forward it to them.

[alecsParticipant @alecs]

Good luck finding a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub in thus day and age.

I reckon the modern equivalent for such a project might be the epecyclic reduction gearbox out of a battery drill.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Shimano make a modern equivalent, no idea if it would be suitable for Cleeve tapping device

[Chris Crew]

On Chris Crew Said:

Maybe a little off-topic, but the mention of Martin Cleeve reminded me of a late friend who was a regular correspondent of MC. Cleeve gave my friend the drawings for his retracting tapping device that utilised a modified bicycle Sturmey-Archer gearbox. The device was briefly described in ME (17th May 1962, Vol.126, No. 3175) but no really detailed construction or operational notes were given.

I passed the original drawings on to the late Chris Deith in the hope that some greater detailed article might be published and I know Mr. Deith passed the drawings to one of his contributors but nothing further happened AFAIK. I have no idea as to whether the drawings are still extant, have been lost to time or if anyone else ever built the device. My late friend always regarded Cleeve as a model engineering genius as anyone who has read his book ‘Screwcutting in the Lathe’ might agree.

It would be interesting to know if the drawings that I passed on still exist or anyone else ever built the device. I have a PDF copy of the ME article and if anyone would care to PM me with their email address I would be happy to forward it to them.

Hi Chris,

I was the person who Chris Deith passed the drawings to. With a view to me writing an article about it, or possibly up-dating the design.

Whilst the Design was rock solid, the attachment took up quite a lot of room under the spindle nose. Okay to use on a stand alone Pillar Drill, but not so easy to used on Bench top mounted machines. At that time the Sturmey-Archer Hubs were virtually non-existent second hand. Those that were available cost twice as much as a good second hand tapping head, so article was shelved.

I returned the drawings to Chris, maybe Avril still has them.

Regards

Gray,

[Author]

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