Search Results for 'arc euro'

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think it is a modified form due to being a 12T gear, if you look at the photo on ARC's site the larger one looks more like 20pa as do the pair it runs with rather than being 14.5pa.

 

They have not helped themselves by putting the keyway between two teeth where the gear is at it's thinnest

Edited By JasonB on 07/12/2018 13:27:50

[Dick HParticipant @dickh]

A couple of years after I got my mini-lathe the back drive bearing on the lathe went, I thought I had completely f**ked it, the plastic gears stripped and it stopped (not necessarily in that order),.

I replaced the plastic gears with metal ones. As someone said at the time, next time something else will go.

One suggestion at the time was to use a hole, probably for the earth connection behind the control electronics to inject lubricant. On my lathe the only access was a couple of screw holes, other lathes seem to offer better access. Another suggestion was whilst you are there to drill a couple holes so you can have a look and or lubricate without having to take the headstock off. I did neither, just applying a bit of grease and putting it back together.

Whilst I was at it I replaced the ball bearings with roller bearings. David Fenner´s "The Mini Lathe" book was useful. Arc-Euro trade has some nice illustrated articles (lots of pictures) on the taking apart and rebuilding. Now they seem to advocate other bearings.

Dick H

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Have no experience of dealing with AMADEAL, but if in the market for a lathe, I would most probably opt for the Seig.

a) Although only a small spending customer, have always got on well with Arc Euro. I like their attitude and ways of trading. The Company seem to be very supportive of the hobby..

b) Have seen a friend's SC4 and was impressed by it.

FWIW If possible, buy a machine a little larger than you think you will need. It may well have extra features that you will come to value. And you can do small work on a large lathe, but not necessarily the other way round.

Howard

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve got a traditional bought fly cutter on a MT3 shank like this type.

**LINK**

I use HSS in it with a radius tip for cutting alloy and a round carbide cutter for steel. I get a great finish with it.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Just had a look on the Arc Eurotrade site and see for about 10 quid you can buy a very comprehensive set of thread wires that cover metric and US threads from 48tpi/.5mm to 3tpi/6mm. Plus a handy little holder for the pair of wires on t'other side.

At that price, yes why not use them/play around with them? Far cry from the old days when such equipment was super exotic and expensive. I might have to get me a set.

EDIT, actually not just the old days. There's a set of Mitutoyo thread wires on eBay right now for A$950! Yikes.

 

Edited By Hopper on 06/12/2018 05:38:50

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You will find a lot of good advice on here.

It would pay you, if possible, to join a fairly close by Model Engineering Club. You would get a lot of advice, and probably could examine a few lathes, before you buy one.

1) Whereabouts are you?

2) What are you thinking of doing with it? No point in buying a mini lathe if you will want to skim 12" brake discs!

Tend to agree with your decision not to go for a Lathe/Mill combination. Dedicated machines will be better. But would advise most strongly against using a Pillar Drill/ Cross Vice for Milling. Drill chucks are not intended to take to side loads that End mills, Slot Drills and Slitting Saws impose! Ketan at Arc Euro says that it can be dangerous, as helical flutes will tend to pull the cutter out of the chuck.

And equally be wary of finding out that you want to put a long piece of 25mm into a machine with a 20mm bore headstock . Been there, done it. Don't want to go there ever again!

Good advice is to buy a lathe that is larger than you at first think you want. Your horizons will expand and it is frustrating to find that your machine cannot accommodate what you now (later on) want to machine.

You can do small work on a large machine, but the converse is more difficult!

You could include on your list of possible new machines the Seig SC4. It is the subject of Neil Wyatt's series on Lathework for Beginners. A friend has one. It has electronic speed control, and selection of metal back gears for screwcutting.

If you want to go bigger, there are other machines which incorporate a Norton gearbox to make selection of feeds and threadcutting easier.

You may find a secondhand machine, in good condition, (Warco BH 600 or Chester Craftsman have PCF, Norton box, Metal gears, Thread indicator, 24" centres, and 12 " swing, 18" in the gap) will give you a better value for money. It might even have Variable Frequency Drive. The saving can be spent on the tooling that you will definitely find that you want or need. (You can spend a lot on measuring equipment!)

I use the power feeds almost all the time, certainly for finishing cuts.

A machine ex College or school may be hard to find, because of the decline of metalwork classes. They will have seen little use, although some abuse!

An ex industry machine will possibly need a 3 phase supply, and will have worked hard for its living, so not suitable for you.

3) Where will you locate your workshop? Hoisting a 200Kg machine up a flight of stairs will be difficult, and will the floor stand the weight? Would the noise annoy the neighbours?

4) Make sure that your shop is well insulated, and ventilated, to avoid problems with rust, and SECURE. You do not want to find that the shop has been damaged and equipment stolen or just trashed for the sake of it.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 05/12/2018 13:10:02

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

**LINK**

These are what you need!

I've got a spread sheet that works everything out if you put in the effective thread diameter. If you are interested, message me your email and I'll send it you.

Jim

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Men Ifr on 02/12/2018 13:09:50:

By precision square I mean one of these type of things. I don't know your location but if you were near to me in Kent I could loan you mine.

Arceuro do one that is claimed to be 4 arc seconds, which is plenty good enough for what you need.

Thanks for the offer Pete but I'm in Warwick

I think the frame levellers are just that – I need to measure 90deg and their tolerance (I believe) refers to detecting and angle from 90deg horizontal.

I'm in Rugby and have an 8" cast iron square with 0.0002" in 10" level, a 10" granite square, plus four 3"x5.5" cast iron squares that I ground up for a job. I could lend you any of these that might be useful.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Austin 1 on 02/12/2018 16:04:26:

The best guess so far is that it was supplied to the Airforce Engineers to support the deployment of Spitfires, The first was 19 Squadron in March 1938 at Duxford. I would appreciate any information or ideas on where I could find out more.

I doubt it was specifically to do with Spitfires. In 1937 the UK Defence Budget was about 2.7% of GDP despite serious concern about the high risk of war with Germany, Italy and Japan, but also with Soviet Russia due their aggression in Finland. Defence had been underfunded since the end of the Great War and Britain's armed forces weren't ready for a major conflict.

In 1938 the government pressed the panic button and tripled the Defence Budget to 9% of GDP. It might be possible to link the contract number with the Staff Requirement by researching the National Archives. But I think that might be misleading. By 1940 we were at war and the lathe could have been sent almost anywhere it was needed.

The 1938 expansion went far beyond any single aircraft. The lathe might have been bought to service Spitfires, but more likely it met other needs. This included ground engineering at multiple new airfields as well as direct support of aircraft, and not just the planes going into service in 1938, but planes planned to be in service by 1945.

As we know, Adolf went a step too far in 1939. During the phony war defence spending rose to 40% of GDP, but it was too late to deal with the already well-prepared Germans. It wasn't until mid-1943 that the British developed sufficient force to really hurt Germany. Of defence procurement Churchill said: 'In year 1, nothing. In year 2 a trickle. In year 3 a flood.'

If only we had some political way of defusing the tensions that cause European Wars…

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 01/12/2018 19:20:03:

By precision square I mean one of these type of things. …

Arceuro do one that is claimed to be 4 arc seconds, which is plenty good enough for what you need.

.

That's a very impressive specification for the price, Pete

… well spotted

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/12/2018 12:56:53:

If those are accurate to two arc seconds … BUY THEM ALL

MichaelG.

I can't promise that! But in a batch of four I would expect at least one to be good enough to tram a mill.

I am concerned that although the OP's mill clearly needs aligning properly, expectations may be a little high.

An alternative to use with even a wonky square is to look at the readings with the square on the left, then on the right and adjust until the change is the same on both sides when the head is moved up and down. The column should now be vertical.

Now possible to set the head perpendicular by tramming, but I think the problem faced is that the head.can only be adjusted off the mill.

This is why I suggested the 'shim with paper' methodology. This must be more or less how they are set in the factory, however, they have the advantage of doing this before they are painted. When I discovered the head of my mill was out, it was evidenced by a crack in the paint where the two parts join.

Obviously using paper, a flat surface and painted castings isn't ideal, but I can honestly say it worked OK for me.

I described the process for the old-style X2 in this article from MEW 201:

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/reviews/MEW201_p52_58_X2_Mill.pdf

Page 5 describes what I did and there's a photo on page 7.

I strongly suggest trying this, followed by conventional tramming (as in Dave's photo) before investing in any additional equipment.

Neil

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Men Ifr on 02/12/2018 13:09:50:

By precision square I mean one of these type of things. I don't know your location but if you were near to me in Kent I could loan you mine.

Arceuro do one that is claimed to be 4 arc seconds, which is plenty good enough for what you need.

Thanks for the offer Pete but I'm in Warwick

I think the frame levellers are just that – I need to measure 90deg and their tolerance (I believe) refers to detecting and angle from 90deg horizontal.

Frame squares have all four sides finished perpendicular to each other. They are very versatile for doing alignment work.

[Men IfrParticipant @menifr84251]

By precision square I mean one of these type of things. I don't know your location but if you were near to me in Kent I could loan you mine.

Arceuro do one that is claimed to be 4 arc seconds, which is plenty good enough for what you need.

Thanks for the offer Pete but I'm in Warwick

I think the frame levellers are just that – I need to measure 90deg and their tolerance (I believe) refers to detecting and angle from 90deg horizontal.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Men Ifr on 01/12/2018 18:57:50:

Buy or borrow a decent precision square. The top and sides are perfectly square to each other and it will have a sensitive bubble with graduations. You can set the square on the table, against the column ways, against the mount for the head etc and compare measurements. The graduations will tell you how far out any surface is.

I have several 'precision' squares – only the usual stuff that is relatively cheap and does not come with a tolerance – I do not believe they are 90deg – one possibly 0.1mm out over 100mm which seems quite poor (for what I want) any-one else I know will not have a genuine precision square made to a tolerance.

Only the starret seems to have a good tolerance but is £££ but maybe worth it it it would get a lot of use (who knows…)

By precision square I mean one of these type of things. I don't know your location but if you were near to me in Kent I could loan you mine.

Arceuro do one that is claimed to be 4 arc seconds, which is plenty good enough for what you need.

 

Edited By Pete Rimmer on 01/12/2018 19:22:25

[andy mulhollandParticipant @andymulholland30577]

hi, I have a old x3 mill bought from arc eurotrade a good while ago..ive been out of the hobby for a while but starting to renew my interest and have found that the carbon brushes on the motor most probably need renewing.. I've phoned arceurotrade but apparently the older brushes are no longer available .. does anybody know differently or have any suggestions on the best way to proceed.. I was wondering if its possible to make up new bushes …any advice much appreciated..thanks….Andy

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Slot to the back, have a look at the X1L rebuild on ARC's site as the tables are virtually the same, pic 95 in particular

Edited By JasonB on 26/11/2018 18:32:30

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by JasonB on 26/11/2018 16:30:02:

Ron, you have not been doing your homework and catching up on the Milling for Beginners series

Part 3 Photo 31. or one of these

Thanks Jason, I have caught up having read all the series so far, I will probably go back and read them all again so it sinks in..

Excellent series by the way.

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ron, you have not been doing your homework and catching up on the Milling for Beginners series

Part 3 Photo 31. or one of these

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Martin

**LINK**

The Swiss company Fritz Studier Held one of the early patents. Now lapsed.
They used "polymer concrete" With their proprietary name Granitan using Ciba Geigy resin.

Polymer concrete is the description used by the Europeans, Epoxy Granite is used more on the other size of the Atlantic by the US

The reason for the break from Cast iron was not cost it was about the considerably higher vibration damping properties. The almost, and some say zero shrinkage of the cast after curing. and the advantage of being able to place steel inserts, pipework and other fittings within the almost cold mold. Casting accuracy of a thou .001" is not uncommon. Compare that to cast iron and the considerable amount of metal removal required to finish machine it.

On the con side it has a much lower tensile strength. You have to use thicker sections. and possibly for me anyway you have to rethink a project model to gain the benefits it offers.

For the home builder polymer concrete opens many doors. Form work can be just about anything; plywood, metal, chip board, plastic etc. Simple molds can be made for once only use or more durable materials for reuse.

And the rest of the world? See link below.

**LINK**

 

Edited By John McNamara on 26/11/2018 10:24:08

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by john carruthers on 25/11/2018 08:56:27:

I fitted one of Arc's lead screw grommets…
**LINK**

Thanks for that John, I didnt realise you could get one.

Ron

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

I fitted one of Arc's lead screw grommets…
**LINK**

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would have thought that could be done with any turret that has parallel tooling holes, just cut down some plain shank ER collets to the right length and away you go.

You could do similar to Joe's turret on your SC4 with one of these and some parallel shank ER collet chucks, bit like this one on Neil's SC4

 

Edited By JasonB on 17/11/2018 07:39:30

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

DAVE:

• If after installation inspection had detected a problem, then commissioning would have stopped while EMCO did whatever was necessary to fix it. Commissioning is more than ticking off items from a DIN standard, it manages the possibility of failure as well. We don't know what EMCO do when a fault is found because your installation went well.

Dave, I think that is the point – EMCO have confidence in the quality of the product and the standard to which it is built and so do NOT expect problems and therefore only sent the 'inspector', Dr C Klapf.. – From Dept Small Machines R&D – I am some 12,000km from them, and if they expect issues, they would surely send the right fellow along as well , rather than hold up the client ( me) for another week or two while sending someone out, etc.

I think we are playing word games – there was no 'commissioning' as per your definition – just verification that the lathe STILL meets spec.

We can all go in circles here forever – I am not debating as to my lathe being better than your lathe, by luck or otherwise, but trying to get it through that one cannot simply say all lathes are 'poorly' put together and need work, or that all lathes are easily knocked out of kilter and need work, etc. Again, you do the manufacturer an injustice with such public statements. Yes my lathe was expensive – that is not the point. The point is that you get what you pay for – If you pay for a specified and audited product from a recognised manufacturer that is what you get.

I understand that people are in this hobby for their own reasons and pleasure. I understand that without the cheap lathes the hobby would be crippled. I also understand that the changes in times have made all to accept the reduction in quality, service and standards and to therefore be prepared to put in more personal effort to 'make things work' . BUT that does not apply to ALL lathes! Allow the Lathe-Seeker access to other points of view and other possibilities as well. Should he ( or She) not have the where with all to purchase up, then so be it – but don't tell them there are no better choices out they if they can afford it!

MARTIN:

As I said above, Martin, I think the key lies in the product specification, ie, to what standard is it manufactured. The Wabeco series seems to be manufactured in Germany, but I would guess ( unfounded) that it is similar to a line of Italian 'bench' lathes – manufactured meaning assembled in-house, with some added value, as demanded by the import customs, ie, there has to be a percentage of in-house manufacturing to permit the company to call it 'made-in-Italy' – But these lathes do not comply with any industrial standards and carry a pedigree in name only. I am NOT saying they are poor lathes, or the like – I am saying they fall in the same category as all the other cheap small lathes. The percentage required of in-house manufacturing is small and infrastructure investment is kept low and small as well – else why would they not do it ALL in house and be proud of it??

I did not jump in with eyes closed when I purchased the 14D – I spent a long time – 7 months – digging and researching many lathes and manufacturers – the extra cost brings with it a lathe that bears up to a standard, will maintain that standard for decades, will perform well, and will hold its value till the end of my life at least!

I looked at the many Chinese lathes on offer – I went to South Africa and looked at most of the offerings in that line available there – and simply cringed. I did look at the Harrison lathes (Student 2500) – ( 600 Manufacturing agent in SA) but they were even more expensive than the 14D! Looked for Colchester and found they were now actually Harrison..

You probably realise by now I am an EMCO fan – I recently refurbished completely my V10, all leadscrews and nuts, half nuts, all fibre gears, toothed drive pully, etc – I obtained ALL the parts from EMCO in Hallein – The headstock fibre gears cost me 210 Euro..

EMCO Hallein still make in house a number of V10 parts FOR SURE – not everything, but most of what one might require in the lathes life.

It is the FB2 mill that is a problem – they still do the spindle/Quill and the head fibre gears, but nothing else – leadscrews, nuts, etc all done in Poland – I replaced my FB2 leadscrews with those 'new' Polish ones, and then refitted my old ones 2 weeks later…

Joe

Sheeshh…I'm trying hard to stop flogging…

 

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 15/11/2018 15:55:05

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

I thought spending more money on a European made lathe was the way to go, this turned out to be a big mistake in my case when a bought a new Wabeco D4000 lathe. I got rid of this lathe @ a great lose just to get some money back, i had it less than 1 year a didn't do that much work on it so was like new when i sold it. This lathe was documented on this forum along with a few others that also had serious issues with the Wabeco D4000. The reason i stayed with a European machine over say a Warco was that i had had an Emco V10P for 20 years 1994 – 2016, this was a 1977 produced Emco V10P to which had served me well up until there was a failure in the headstock gears creating a mess inside the head stock. With limited parts available for the V10P & astronomic prices for the few parts that were still manufactured all be it by another company & not the original Emco factory made it not viable on this 40 year old Emco.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 14/11/2018 10:12:45:

A machine gets set up and tested on a test rig in a factory.

It may then travel half way around the world in a container, sit in storage for months or years, before being transported carefully to someone's workshop. It is then set up on a bench with no particular specification in uncontrolled temperature conditions.

If it is in perfect alignment and adjustment, that is more likely to be luck than quality production…

Neil

I suppose you may be correct, but I suspect it has a lot to due with the quality of the machine, and hence what it costs? Without trying to harp..My Emco 14D is by all counts a 'smallish' machine – It is the successor to the older Emco Super 11, so maybe in the Wabeco D6000, or between the Warco 1236 and 1230 models.

It was verified in the Emco factory before shipping to Namibia – a 2 month Sea journey, and then by road to me. An Emco rep was present for commissioning and performed the same verification as done at factory – NO noticeable change at all…37 measurements done..

I can post the Emco check sheets if anyone is interested, but the measurements are extensive – Runout on spindle internal, external and flat face ( all less than 0.0018mm!) Runout of test bar in chuck, including longitudinal runout from left to right ( ie, saddle moved from left to right with dial on bar) – less than 0.0022mm!, etc…They also measure the twist in the slide by attaching a DTI, and applying a set load on the slide, first at one end, then the other, and measure DTI deflection…

I realise that if you pay 50,000 or 80,000 Pounds for a machine , this level of return may be expected, but the 14D was WELL below that price – below 18,000 Pounds – which is 'only' 4 or so times the above mentioned Warco models.

I believe you get what you pay for in most cases..And I know one cannot compare a European made machine to one made in China, but by the same token, then,

It benefits from a little setting up but that's true of every lathe – anyone who thinks you can plonk a lathe down on a bench and expect it to give it's best without checking the gibs etc. is deluding themselves.

is really only applicable to a certain range of lathe or to a certain supply base, or maybe , more to the point, to a 'cheap' lathe as opposed to an inexpensive lathe..

Pedantic, I know, but…

I'll now do as that other fellow and get my coat..

Joe

Not with you on this one Joe I'm afraid.

Neil said "It benefits from a little setting up but that's true of every lathe – anyone who thinks you can plonk a lathe down on a bench and expect it to give it's best without checking the gibs etc. is deluding themselves."

I think you agreed entirely with Neil's logic when you said "An Emco rep was present for commissioning and performed the same verification as done at factory". I take your point that the rep found nothing wrong, but if the lathe was guaranteed rock solid why was it necessary for him to be there in Namibia at all? I'd say his role was exactly in line with "checking the gibs etc."

Isn't it also what Dr Schlesinger's 'Testing Machine Tools' is about – making sure new machines, even the very best, are installed correctly and then kept in good order?

As for your Emco, I WANT ONE. Super machine, and only a little more expensive than my Far Eastern machine…

Dave