Search Results for 'arc euro'

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:41:50:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

I don't think anyone is disputing the gunsmith usage nor that some are made to a specific drawing as shown earlier. The point is there are clearly two distinct versions, one with offset holes for specific pin removal tasks and one dead symmetrical. As humans mostly expect things to be symmetrical (though the human body is distinctly not so) it would not be difficult for any seller, whether Indian or Chinese, to be specific about any deviations from what might reasonably be expected, or on ebay where lots of pictures can be included to show the actual manufacturing drawing.
It is the equivalent of the need to add "contains nuts" on foods that aren't usually associated with nuts.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:41:50:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

One only has to look at the website of a major USA gun hobby website such as Brownells.com to see a variety of bench blocks made specifically for gunsmithing. **LINK**

The second one shown on the link appears in the photo to have offset holes.

I think Starrett supplies tools more for toolmakers and machinists than for gunsmiths, so no offsets on their block. Or maybe they do but just don't cater to the limited needs of the Colt 1911? Knowing Starrett, their block was possibly patented well before 1911 anyway.

Edited By Hopper on 26/12/2019 23:18:43

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by XD 351 on 23/12/2019 17:59:51:

Be careful buying online as you may have issues with warranty if something does go wrong , If you must buy a Mitutoyo then i would suggest you get onto the Mitutoyo website and look for a certified seller in your country and please be aware there are clones of the Mitutoyo Equipment out there everywhere

Indeed.

Don't know if Mitutoyo policy has changed but around 10 years ago I got a brand new Mitutoyo 8" dial caliper off E-Bay from what I believed to be a legitimate dealer, and had issues with it. Mitutoyo flat out refused to have anything to do with it despite proof of purchase and sending the warranty card(?) back. Supplier was less than helpful too, I'm pretty sure they knew it was defective and were exploiting things to unload it. Reduced, but not a super bargain, which I put down to being the previous model. Brazilian made which may, or may not, explain things. I sorted it properly and traded it on as being very underwhelmed by the innards. Ended up with a NOS version before that, made in Japan with the older movement. OK quality, worth the £25 I paid, but objectively not what most folk expect of Mitutoyo. But I've always found Mitutoyo a very overrated brand, I'd not have bought the calipers if anyone else had made 8" dials. Wanted something for rough work really.

Definitely agree that the ArcEuro look-alike is a more sensible buy for the home shop. If you have the money splash out on a decent mount with a good fine adjustment system. Three-quarters of the battle is getting the device firmly held in the right place.

Clive

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 23/12/2019 14:08:23:

Would this Mitutoyo 513-404-10T Dial Test Indicator be suitable?

It sells for £106 on Amazon and is supplied by Mitutoyo.

Cheers,

Austin

More than suitable, but the word I'd use is 'extravagant'!

What's your reason for wanting a pricey instrument? I own a lever type and a piston type DTI: they're both useful in different circumstances. Neither of mine are expected to be accurate. Instead they are used to compare distances or detect tiny relative movements. For example when centring work in a 4-jaw chuck, the DTI only needs to show there is next to no movement when the work is rotated. For that purpose in my workshop (0.01mm is plenty good enough) the dial doesn't need to be anything special.

My instruments are the inexpensive kind, a piston gauge as sold by ArcEuro for £17, and a lever DTI costing about £30. It's possible to find cheaper, but too cheap is best avoided! The difference between my dials and expensive gauges might include: better accuracy over a wider range (rarely needed in my experience), longer working life (provided you don't drop them), and smoother operation. In my opinion the last is the most useful feature. Inexpensive dials tend to be a little sticky in my experience, so using them needs extra care. In a professional workshop slick reliable instruments are worth having because time is money. Not so obvious what benefit a high-end dial gauge delivers in a home workshop.

My biggest regret buying down to a price wasn't the dials, it was the stand! I bought the simplest magnet base available. It works but sure doesn't make manoeuvring the dial into position easy. Unless money is no object, spend that £107 on a couple of cheaper dials and a stand with more joints in it!

Dave

PS. My views on tools are utilitarian. Ignore all of the above if enjoying 'nice' tools is to be part of your hobby and plenty of cash is available. My only objection to buying expensive tools is the money might well be spent more intelligently elsewhere.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 22/12/2019 21:26:43:

The boring bar shouldn't be deflecting that much. What insert are you usng and where did it come from? Also what feedrate is being used?

Even if the bar is deflecting it isn't a problem. As you get near to final size take a couple of spring cuts without moving the cross slide before measuring the bore.

Andrew

Bought it from Arc Here

Kind of what I thought, when I get close will use slowest feed rate and minimal cuts

Edited By petro1head on 22/12/2019 21:47:29

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

£30 to £50 seems a sensible budget for a sound lever type DTI. As ever ArcEurotrade are a good reference point for home shop guy/gal friendly price – performance ratio. They will sell you a 1/2 thou – 0.02 mm sensitive one for £32. Plenty of choice of good looking ones on E-Bay in that range too. You can find the wrongly labeled or "nobody wants one this week" superbargains on E-Bay, Facebook, local Free-Ad sheet et al but its doubtful if the gain is worth the wait.

As Micheal says Verdict is a brand name but its the most common by far and cuts down the time spent looking. I'd be expecting a hard case and mounting accessories included, especially if buying used. Verdict rectangular bodies are generally slimmer and longer than other breeds with a shorter pointer. The small dial versions are a bit less in diameter too. Verdicts generally mount via a spigot fixed to the end opposite the lever. Many other brands have dovetails on two or three sides with one or more spigot adapters. On balance I prefer the slimmer Verdict style to the shorter, deeper modern type. But, like so many personal preferences, that may simply be because its what I'm used to and what my working style evolved to suit.

I'm also unconvinced that the extra sensitivity of 1/2 thou – 0.02 mm calibration is worth the general twitchyness and shorter operating range when compared to a 1 thou – 0.05 mm device. When looking for smallest possible movement of the needle, objectively, the difference in twich doesn't seem that noticeable. A 0.1 thou – 0.005 mm sensitivity will drive you to drink and profanity in very short order! I have one, rarely used, and make sure I've taken the calm pills before getting it out. You will see all the tool marks and surface imperfections.

Do make sure that the spigot, whether fixed Verdict style or dovetail fitting, mates up with your mount. Whether already in possession or bought along with the indicator. I'm unsure whether dovetail mounts are truly interchangeable between brands but probably safest to assume not and make sure yours comes with the appropriate spigot. Although you can use fixed magnetic mounts and carrier arms without fine screw adjustment, especially if you exploit the cross slide movement, such can rather try your patience. I would regard a switch style magnetic base and carrier arm with fine adjustment as being essential. Mine are old style Eclipse of a quality you will not find today.

Don't forget that the cross slide dial is a great help when initially setting up in the 4 jaw. Start by using the lines on the face to get the jaws roughly equal. Put a nice solid bumper block in the toolpost and set one pair of jaws horizontal. Move the cross slide so the bumper gently touches the workpiece and note the reading. Spin the chuck 180° and repeat. Set the cross slide to half the difference (remember to take out backlash) and move the jaws so the workpiece just touches with the chuck jaws gripping lightly. Repeat with the other pair of jaws. Assuming the job is round or square it will be close. Maybe a thou or three error for me. For jobs that don't need to be dead on I often leave the indicator in the box and just go round twice and re-check after final tightening of the jaws.

Clive

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Arc Euro recommend Spiral point taps for through holes (To push the swarf ahead of the Tap) and Spiral Flute taps for blind holes, to help remove swarf from the hole.

They offer Taps down to M2.

HTH

Howard

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Just for fairness, re the above price comparison, The axminster comes up as no delivery charge while the ArcEuro shows about £70. That does bring the difference to more like four hundred quid, not five hundred as stated above.

Still a huge savings and not to be ignored. There may be other minor differences, but that is clearly the largest likely difference – the stand is more expensive from Arc, for instance. Warranty periods may be different, but – let’s face it – most claimable defects show up fairly early (wear and tear will not be covered).

Without any idea of the delivery address those figures could be different. I would likely collect it in my car from Syston, anyway, so a price which includes delivery would not be for me.

At 125kg gross and only 95kg nett the SC4 is not exactly a heavy piece of kit. The SC2 is a breeze in comparison – nearly tuck it under one arm and clearly less price differential – but I would still go to Syston.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Based on my experiences, of four of the importers, (One I have not visited or bought from in years, and another is in almost the same category, the third is not far behind the other two ) Have never used Axminster, so cannot comment

F W I W, I would go for a SC4 from Arc.EuroTrade, Never had a problem with them

Howard.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Jason Brister on 21/12/2019 10:54:44:

So out of the Axminster, Arc or Clarke, which is the better build quality/spec?

If only it were that easy!

The machines are made to a common out-of-copyright design, in the Far East, mainly China, by a number of different suppliers. The design is said to be European and is typical of a modern manual lathe circa 1965. There are variations such as different motors, electronics, paint-jobs, accessories included and maybe other details, but they are all similar.

All the machines are made down to a price which means they are not subject to intense inspection at the factory. Their design philosophy and build quality is utilitarian. Do not expect them to be as polished as a Western lathe costing 6 to 20x as much, and don't be surprised to find they perform rather well despite that.

Although there are dogs about most these days seem satisfactory out of the box, though all mine benefited from minor fettling. Basically the design is good and the components reasonably made, but to keep costs down the machines aren't finessed in any way. They look and feel rough, but the headstock is aligned with the bed!

Beware of cheap lathes sold by pop-up online sellers; it's hard to tell the difference between genuine bargains and opportunists box shifting rejects and returns. Read the small-print carefully! It's not the lathe that matters, it's what happens if it turns out to be a crock.

All the mainstream British vendors will supply a reasonable machine and – most important – they will refund or replace in the event you are unlucky enough to get a bad example. I think Imperial vs Metric is more important than choosing between reputable suppliers. Axminster are more expensive because their price includes an extended warranty. Clarke (sold by MachineMart) don't have in-store expertise, but spares are available and the company responsible. Some suppliers, I think Arc and Warco are examples, seem to take more care establishing relationships with their suppliers. As a result they may get better finished machines than others. While both have been known to drop the ball, both have good reputations, with Arc getting almost exclusively positive feedback. Warco sell a larger range of machines.

My advice is to pick a machine you like the look of and buy it! Dithering about specifications and build quality just wastes valuable workshop time because there isn't an obvious answer. Unless you intend specialising in small work, best advice is to buy the biggest lathe you can manage. Big lathes can do small work but not vice-versa and it's usually easier to set up work and tooling when there's plenty of space on the machine.

Dave

[JAParticipant @ja]

I am getting a bit fed-up with Myford oil guns and the lubrication of my big bore Myford. Ten years ago there was an article in the MEW about fitting a one-shot oil system to a Myford ML7. The parts came from Arc Euro Trade and for some time they sold a kit for the lathe.

I would like to know if anyone fitted the system and, if so, what they thought of it. Better still, if anyone modified the system for use on a later Myford.

JA

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Similarly, On Monday morning ordered some M3.5 taps and a Die from Arc Euro. Arrived by post on Tuesday morning. Allowed the job to be done by mid afternoon.

Howard

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

From the little that i have seen of a friends Arc Euro Seig SC4, I was impressed.

Speed control is electronic, and feeds or thread pitches are by changewheels.

I can understand why Arc Euro do not warranty machines for industrial use. In industry, it could be hard at work for 40+ hours per week; compared to infrequent use for a hobby.

There never will be a lathe that satisfies everyone's requirements, because we all have different needs.

My lathe is a lookalike of a Warco BH600, but no longer on sale. Has a Norton gearbox and only one Idler needs to be moved to change from cutting Imperial threads to Metric.threads. At 300 Kg not a lathe to lift off a stand and put under the bench. So too big for your purposes.

Later models may offer similar facilities, but at a reduced size / weight. Certainly the sort of spec to look for.

Whatever you buy, do mount it on a substantial stand or baseboard. The bed needs to be free from twist, or work free from unwanted tapers is unlikely to be produced, consistently..

There is a lot to be said for a simple machine that is rugged, rather than over sophisticated. Why spend money on a bell or whistle that will never be needed?

Howard

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you only want the needle roller thrust bearings, see if Arc Euro have any the right size. Might be less costly!

Howard (aka as Scrooge at this time of year )

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Thanks Alan & Howard, yes Arc Euro got back to me and they are indeed supplied in individual little blue boxes.

To be honest I was baulking at the idea of having to make a tray to hold them as I got it into my head I'd need a different size hole for each size collet….and they say you cant beat stupid!

Cheers

Chris.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

It's very easy to add needle roller thrust bearings either side of the LS bracket which allow more preload and give less friction.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And for those without the catalogue it also comes up when you click any of the ER collet sizes on their site here

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Like Jason, I store  the ER 20 collets for my Worden Cutter Grinder, in holes bored (Thankfully, all the same size ) in a piece of chipboard that is a close fit in the drawer made to fit within the reinforcing bars in the base.  It looks almost as neat as Jason's!

My ER 25 collets came in a wooden block within a cardboard box, from Chronos. Many years on, the box and the wooden block are still reasonably intact!

So, how about making a case, for custom made, for your collets?.

For anyone doubtful about how to mount an ER collet into the Clamp Nut, the Arc Euro Catalogue (Issue 11 just released ) shows how to do it.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 16/12/2019 20:44:43

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Posted by Chris Vickers on 15/12/2019 17:17:17:

I emailed Arc Euro earlier to ask if the collet sets are supplied in an aluminium case, strangely it doesn't say on their website.

The set I ordered arrived as a collection of individual square blue plastic boxes. A discount for bulk-buying. No special packaging.

Those plastic boxes are now packed open-ended on a square grid in a wooden box that originally contained cutlery.

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Hello IanT,

Thank you for that, most interesting and informative, and bang on topic. I was making a shopping, well wish list earlier and your comments have certainly helped!

I emailed Arc Euro earlier to ask if the collet sets are supplied in an aluminium case, strangely it doesn't say on their website.

I also notice one can now get (elsewhere) collet's to take up to 25mm for the ER32 holders.

Cheers

Chris.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Chris Vickers on 14/12/2019 17:32:30:

Could I ask what the difference is between Stevenson's original collet blocks and any other available, and are the ball bearing caps worth having instead of the plain.

Cheers

Chris.

Generally agree with what has been said before Chris but will add a few other things which might be useful. It's a kind of 'Evolution' story in terms of my collet collection…

Before the JS ER32 Blocks were available, the (Hobbyist) Trade only offered 5C collet blocks – so that's what I originally purchased. 5Cs will hold up to 28mm round stock but you can also get square and hex collets. They are for just a 'single' size but that may not be a problem for specific projects (I only have a few sizes). The quick release lever-type 5C holder can be more convenient than ER when working on multiple parts.

At this time I also had a 'Chinese' MT2 collet chuck (with non-ER collets) – but we can skip over that as ancient history…

My Spin Indexer was also 5C but then JS introduced his ER32 adaptor for it – so I started to use (and like) ER32 collets. In terms of work holding size – you can now get ER40 of course (max 26mm?) but I'm invested in ER32 – so the 5C is still handy occasionally.

I also have a 'bearing' nut that gets used when I really need to take a ER32 collet down near it's minimum – and it does make life much easier (especially if you have trouble gripping things too hard) but for anything near the 'max' diameter of the collet – the normal nut is perfectly useable. I've also mentioned before that a few Imperial collets can help in this area – If I have some 6.2mm material to hold – a 1/4" (6.35mm) collet is easier to use than a 7mm one…

All my collets/chucks have come from Arc Euro (and I've no complaints) – so I cannot speak to other suppliers.

Collets & Collet blocks are very useful things to have and the more you use them – the more uses you seem to find for them. Hope this hasn't been too far off-topic…

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 15/12/2019 15:13:10

[Mark Gould 1Participant @markgould1]

Gents,

I have wanted a quality European drill for a while and have been searching for Meddings etc. but havent been successful.
i recently ran into this one which seems to be military surplus. Have anyone heard of it? It is a Duss D23 and the press part is a Hahn and Kolb.
My internet searches haven’t revealed much info.

Many thanks,

Mark

 

 

Edited By Mark Gould 1 on 15/12/2019 04:16:22

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Could I ask what the difference is between Stevenson's original collet blocks and any other available, and are the ball bearing caps worth having instead of the plain.

Also anyone bought the Arc Euro trade 6" bench grinder, is it a good machine?

Cheers

Chris.