Message from ARC to our customers in the E.U.

[Jim Butler 1Participant @jimbutler1]

I hope that I am not being set up here, like that poor girl with the soldering iron!

JimB

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

ouch!

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Anyone smell something burning? no, must be just me then.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Nothing to worry about – she's got her safety spec's on.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 10/12/2020 20:02:50:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 10/12/2020 16:50:52:

…

But if it is a significant business, rent a wharehouse in Boulogne (or wherever) I am sure that other small businesses will get wise & shared arrangements can be set up., import the goods to there & send them from there to the EU customers. The bookwork can be handled from the Uk by computer. Profits can come back to Uk so that foriegn tax is limited. All you need in Boulogne is a manager and a couple of parcel packers.

Is it really so hard, once the initial problems are sorted & of course there has to be a will to develop a business opportunity. …

You are probably right Sam. Where there is a will, there is a way.

At present I am content with my lot. Lets see how things develop over time.

Ketan at ARC

Sam's solution is a way ahead, but it's purpose is to circumvent the imposition of trade barriers resulting from a political decision. It's damage limitation with overheads, not an improved way of trading with Europe!

Did voters have this sort of hoop jumping in mind 4 years ago? My impression is they wanted simplicity, less bureaucracy, more local control, conservative methods, and more opportunity. A bright new dawn and sunlit uplands.

Interesting times – this is history in the making. I had to study the French Revolution, Congress of Vienna, the Corn Laws and Gladstone (but not Bismarck – perhaps I was asleep). I wonder what the youth of 2170 will make of our goings on?

Dave

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by peak4 on 10/12/2020 22:33:05:

Ketan, I appreciate this might not affect you directly as it's concerned with EU>UK imports post Brexit, rather than vice versa, (and I think regardless of a deal.)
In a way, it seems to put UK buyers, from EU vendors, in a similar position to your EU customers.

Yes Bill, I am aware of this. I believe that Michael G brought up this issue with the government link back in mid October, on this thread.

As I understand it, EU will have the same policy from 1st July 2021, where exporters to EU will have to have some kind of EU VAT registration for exports from UK to EU from 1st July 2021. I guess the details will get clearer in the coming months.

Ketan at ARC

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 11/12/2020 11:25:49:

Did voters have this sort of hoop jumping in mind 4 years ago?

Dave

The general public might not have, but businesses trading with Europe who did not wear rose tinted glasses did, or should have

What I failed to take into account was the way the couriers would react. I could say many less than complementary things about them, I could join the conspiracy band wagon, but at the end of the day, businesses like us – on both sides of the channel – have to find a way to work with the system, whatever the outcome.

Ketan at ARC

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 11/12/2020 11:25:49:

Interesting times – this is history in the making. I had to study the French Revolution, Congress of Vienna, the Corn Laws and Gladstone (but not Bismarck – perhaps I was asleep). I wonder what the youth of 2170 will make of our goings on?

Dave

 

I know what the youth of today make of our goings on.

JA

I school they did not allow us to do history more recent than Charles I. I now realise why.

Edited By JA on 11/12/2020 12:56:52

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

For most of the 18th C + early 19th England was at war with France but French wine etc still made it onto the tables of the more affluent (partly helped by the IoM)
The later half of the 19th C and half 20th the UK was in conflict commercially (including in the then colonies + dominions) and of course militarily with an expansionist Germany.
2021 will see a return after a peace of 75 years to conflict (hopefully merely commercially) with a Europe that now feels secure enough + led by a generation that has lost knowledge of the sins of their great grandfathers.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I school they did not allow us to do history more recent than Charles I. I now realise why.

Edited By JA on 11/12/2020 12:56:52

Sounds like a crap school!

Tony

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Once the EU and the UK Gov see the effect this has on small business like ARC, they'll remove all these new regulations.

They'd never risk their people losing all they'd worked for just so Gov's could spite one another over Brexit.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 11/12/2020 13:49:44:

I school they did not allow us to do history more recent than Charles I. I now realise why.

Edited By JA on 11/12/2020 12:56:52

Sounds like a crap school!

Tony

May be, but wise.

JA

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

companies such as ARC losing its Euro trade is just small collateral damage to the ideologues of both the UK and the EU – unless some sense is seen in next few days I suspect it will be several damaging years before sense is restored and after a greater loss than Arc’s lost business.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Breakups are interesting. The instigators (or, hopefully, unsuccessful instigators) always expect things to go their own way.

Over here in Canada, we have Quebec popping up the idea of separation, and Alberta and the west.

I read this recently, in an obituary of one of our indigenous leaders:

"Although he was friendly with the Quebec separatist leader René Lévesque, Mr. Gros-Louis remained a federalist. During a 1992 appearance at a Quebec National Assembly committee studying Quebec sovereignty, Mr. Gros-Louis was asked by a Parti Québécois legislator whether First Nations in a separate Quebec would insist on forming their own mini-states, turning Quebec into a “Swiss cheese full of holes.” To which Mr. Gros-Louis responded. “We’ll leave you the holes and we’ll keep the cheese.”"

Things like, taking the James Bay hydroelectric dam, cities like (I assume) Montreal and Quebec, etc. leaving the Quebecois with the dregs.

You open Pandoras' box, and you never know what you'll let out.

Sigh.

(ref: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-huron-wendat-grand-chief-was-a-strong-and-charismatic-advocate-for-his/)

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

We were never going to get a deal, Dyson predicted that 3 years ago

Leave the EU…. and then get a good deal?? Only in your dreams

There are other EU members who want out and a decent deal would only encourage their Leavers

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by blowlamp on 11/12/2020 14:19:47:

Once the EU and the UK Gov see the effect this has on small business like ARC, they'll remove all these new regulations.

They'd never risk their people losing all they'd worked for just so Gov's could spite one another over Brexit.

Lol… Yes there will be effects, but they are likely to be limited, as far as ARC is concerned, positive and negative. I wish negotiators on both sides well. My concern are only the couriers. I will be trying out different ones over the coming months.. DPD (French Post owned – crap at dealing with problems when parcels go walkabout in Europe), DHL (German Post owned, but more expensive – and pro-active on service when things go wrong), Parcelforce (maybe – but what service? when things go wrong).

I see that certain changes are necessary. I for one am FOR the changes to the VAT regulations, be they for import into the UK from 1st January, or for the EU from *1st July. They are long overdue.

If UK and EU traders are expected to obey the law, so should Amazon, eBay, Banggood, and all the Chinese traders who trade through them. Regardless of the outcome of Brexit talks, the next challenge will be how HMRC or their European counterparts are likely to enforce the changes… if they are able to. I know that such traders outside the UK and EU will already be looking at loopholes to beat the system. With an increasing number of such Chinese traders setting up shop in Hamburg port, I feel sad for the traditional German businesses similar to us, who already are suffering.

Ketan at ARC

* If ARC manages to still have customers left in EU after the first six months of next year, hopefully there will be an easy way for ARC to VAT register for the EU collective states by 1st July, rather than register in each state of the EU. Lets wait and see.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/12/2020 15:54:47

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Can anyone explain why Amazon doesn't;t get it's a**e kicked by all governments? Why don't they set up laws to make it pay a decent rate of tax???

Tony

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Lawyers get rich by suggesting loopholes- ever thought why so many MPs are lawyers (+ so few have any STEM background)

Also international tax laws can be rigged to allow avoidance eg the Irish making Apple rich via the double dutch sandwich or even plain simple come here and we won’t tax you

Edited By Frances IoM on 11/12/2020 17:36:49

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

It would be interesting to know what % of the goods that ARC sell into the EU is actually made in the Uk. Very little one might wonder But then I may be very wrong. If i am then that is bad for the UK because it is lost manufacturing.

Personally I have little sympathy with goods sourced in India & then sent to the EU, if there is no value added in the Uk. & I say that with the greatest of respect to Ketan. The only benefit being increased turnover for ARC meaning increased buying power of the product & hence reduced cost to us here in the uk perhaps

What I expect to see is an unholy mess for 6-12 months. considerable delays at ports etc, remainers will have a field day,( Laura K at the BBC will be on overtime )Great political arguing. But once industry get to grips & actually KNOW what they need to know then things will start to run more smoothly. Couriers will reduce costs. Currently their charges are reflecting uncertainty & we cannot blame them for that. Without turning the debate into a political one it is clear that we would have been better off walking away ages ago. But that is for another debate.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 11/12/2020 17:40:33:

It would be interesting to know what % of the goods that ARC sell into the EU is actually made in the Uk. Very little one might wonder But then I may be very wrong. If i am then that is bad for the UK because it is lost manufacturing.

Probably none, but then how many products are actually manufactured in the UK, built with UK tools and machines and by British people? I really doubt there's any piece of electronics, tooling or clothing in the planet which is not made entirely or partly in China.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by ChrisB on 11/12/2020 18:28:16:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 11/12/2020 17:40:33:

It would be interesting to know what % of the goods that ARC sell into the EU is actually made in the Uk. Very little one might wonder But then I may be very wrong. If i am then that is bad for the UK because it is lost manufacturing.

Probably none, but then how many products are actually manufactured in the UK, built with UK tools and machines and by British people? I really doubt there's any piece of electronics, tooling or clothing in the planet which is not made entirely or partly in China.

Spot on, but that's the way we want it .The underpaid east will continue to supply the affluent west.

Tony

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

The “underpaid east” is mostly myth – just look at the number of affluent Chinese visitors pre covid.
Yes the wages started off low many years ago but the Chinese Government seeing the opportunity supported the adoption of the latest CNC manufacturing whereas the UK engineering sector which could have modernised in the 60s + 70s preferred to take the short term profits by buying cheap Chinese manufactured goods – Covid demonstrated we could neither produce PPE nor most pharmaceutical products – the only mass produced goods in the UK seemed to be short-life fashion for the young female market produced at slave labour rates in Leicester

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Frances IoM on 11/12/2020 19:03:10:
The "underpaid east" is mostly myth – just look at the number of affluent Chinese visitors pre covid.
Yes the wages started off low many years ago but the Chinese Government seeing the opportunity supported the adoption of the latest CNC manufacturing whereas the UK engineering sector which could have modernised in the 60s + 70s preferred to take the short term profits by buying cheap Chinese manufactured goods – Covid demonstrated we could neither produce PPE nor most pharmaceutical products – the only mass produced goods in the UK seemed to be short-life fashion for the young female market produced at slave labour rates in Leicester

What a load of dross this thread is, I'm bailing out of it !

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

Posted by ChrisB on 11/12/2020 18:28:16:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 11/12/2020 17:40:33:

It would be interesting to know what % of the goods that ARC sell into the EU is actually made in the Uk.

Probably none, but then how many products are actually manufactured in the UK, built with UK tools and machines and by British people? I really doubt there's any piece of electronics, tooling or clothing in the planet which is not made entirely or partly in China.

My perusal and use of JB CuttingTools website shows many ( I haven't checked every one )   cutting tools as being made in Sheffield and displaying the Union flag.
DaveD

Edited By Meunier on 11/12/2020 20:01:17

Edited By Meunier on 11/12/2020 20:01:57

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Frances IoM on 11/12/2020 19:03:10:
The "underpaid east" is mostly myth –

It depends what stats you are considering, Frances.

GDP per capita is the usual measure of material standard of living.

The World Bank's 2019 figures for GDP per capita of the UK and the PRC are $42,000 and $10,262 respectively.

[Author]

Posts