DHSS access to your bank account

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Samsaranda on 23/05/2021 08:38:58:

Did these draconian powers come into being because of our membership of the EU where all member states were required to have parallel systems in place ? Dave W

No. Responsibility lies with parliament. And the government are looking to extend the powers granted to the DWP at the moment. Nothing to do with the EU.

Most of us are dead against benefit fraud. Unfortunately, too many imagine fraud is only committed by drunken ne'er do wells living idle lives of luxury on council estates at taxpayer expense; they aren't aware fraud is committed on a large scale by wealthy folk too. When applying for state support – care homes etc, applicants have to declare their capital: many lie! As fraud is rife, the state checks suspicious claims, including yours…

Mark Rand mentions RIPA, also nothing to do with the EU. Introduced in 2000 by Labour, it's since been strengthened by Conservative governments. Analysis of internal DWP Guidance on applying RIPA by Privacy International shows much more than checking bank accounts:

Guidance for staff includes rules around physically monitoring those suspected of fraud, gathering CCTV videos, looking at someone’s social media activity and investigating employers who may be seen as assisting fraudulent activity.

Suspected benefit fraudsters in the UK are being subjected to excessive surveillance techniques such as being tailed by government officers or identified in CCTV footage.

The DWP work with private companies – some of which may be an individual’s service providers. These companies are obliged to hand over information if there are reasonable grounds to believe that the individual is or could be involved in a benefits-related offence.

Companies who can be asked for this include bingo clubs, the BBC, estate agents, gyms, legal aid boards, banks and the NHS counter fraud department, which can hand over GP registration and checks of medical cards.

The DWP say: “Privacy International’s report grossly mischaracterises the use, and extent, of DWP powers, which are subject to independent scrutiny. The limited powers that the department does possess are used to prevent and detect potential crime, with surveillance conducted only when the department is investigating potential fraud, and even then only in cases where all other relevant lines of inquiry have been exhausted.”

In my view they are both right, depending on how the powers are applied case-by-case. Fraud and fraud counter-measures are nothing but bad news for innocent bystanders!

As an aside, this DWP graph shows a sharp rise in fraud since the UK left the EU.

Or not! I suggest the graph demonstrates how difficult it is to identify cause from effect. Three obvious possibilities:

1. Brexit is causing more fraud.
2. The red dotted line shows the point at which the DWP changed the way they detect and report fraud. So the increase may not a rise at all, it's more accurate reporting of previously undetected fraud.
3. Coronavirus!

Or all three together. Nothing is simples, check the evidence!

Dave

[JAParticipant @ja]

Most countries have these draconion powers when it comes to tax and excise (money). My father crossed the Canadian border into the USA in the mid 1930s along with some tourists. A German had a brand new Leica and the customs man asked to see its receipt. The owner did not have it so the official threw the camera against the wall, hard.

JA

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 23/05/2021 07:17:39:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 22/05/2021 22:36:06:

That's nothing, Customs and Excise have the right to enter your home and carry out a search without a warrant.

regards Martin

Thats got you all worried just before bed time.

:O)

Edited By Martin Kyte on 22/05/2021 22:36:53

Hi Martin, this document says otherwise Chapter 3 Powers 3.4

Regards Nick.

Does that not relate to Irish Excise Law?

Anyone who steals or defrauds the Government steals from you and me.

regards Martin

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Its probable the coronavirus furlow and other relief fraud is a major part of that.

On Ebay and Paypa l accessing accounts, while they required authority to open an account, you can recind that at any time including right after opening the account.
Ebay are currently forcing use of them by sellers for payments instead of PayPal etc with associated bank account access. Many sellers are opening separate accounts to ring-fence this. Santander for instance offer a free basic current account that can be a secondary account, i.e. no regular deposits, even if you are not an existing customer.

Robert G8RPI.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

In respect of fraud from public funds, recently had the roof on our conservatory replaced, when the company came to survey the job I asked how long would the waiting list be, his reply was we are snowed under with work since the start of COVID and we would have to wait 6 to 8 weeks even though it was only a one day job. He said that since the government were making loans freely available to businesses during the pandemic, business owners were obtaining loans, supposedly for their business and then using the money to fund new conservatories hence the conservatory businesses were booming. As a taxpayer I find that a gross misuse of public funds, no wonder the pandemic is on course to bankrupt our public finances.

On a different theme I remember the story of a gentleman who was blatantly evading income tax and the tax inspectors were extremely frustrated that they couldn’t catch him out, eventually they found which supermarket that he used for his shopping and applied to the supermarket for the records of his loyalty card. When they checked they found that his spending in the supermarket amounted to more than the sum of his declared income so they took him to court and his loyalty card records were used to convict him. We leave a footprint everywhere and the government will leave no stone unturned to catch fraudsters. Dave W

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 23/05/2021 11:20:29:

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 23/05/2021 07:17:39:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 22/05/2021 22:36:06:

That's nothing, Customs and Excise have the right to enter your home and carry out a search without a warrant.

regards Martin

Thats got you all worried just before bed time.

:O)

Edited By Martin Kyte on 22/05/2021 22:36:53

Hi Martin, this document says otherwise Chapter 3 Powers 3.4

Regards Nick.

Does that not relate to Irish Excise Law?

Anyone who steals or defrauds the Government steals from you and me.

regards Martin

Hi Martin, must admit that I didn't notice it was for Irish Excise Law, however, you may like to peruse these Privancy in your own house Powers of Entry and Code of Practice. 10, 11, 12 and 13 maybe relevant. Things never seem to be cut and dried and look like they are full of; if, but's and maybe's.

Regards Nick.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Big brother may also be watching your travels.

Following.

Edited By V8Eng on 23/05/2021 15:13:28

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