Which Lathe???

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Unless the large diameter job is overly long, you can use a fixed steady to machine larger diameter jobs in a Myford. Works surprisingly well.

But I would take a Boxford or other South Bend clone over a Myford if I had the choice. More solid machine than the Myford all round but similar footprint area.

But as you already have a ML7 you might as well keep it and learn to use the fixed steady for larger jobs.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Slightly modified description :

Model A:- Screwcutting with quickchange g/box., power cross feed & long. feed. Back geared headstock.

Model B:- Screwcutting with changewheels, power cross-feed & long. feed. Back geared headstock.

Model C;- Screwcutting with changewheels. Back geared headstock.

Model T : Plain lathe – no screwcutting facility, no back gear. May only have been available as underdrive (TUD)

Unlike the Models A & B, the Model C does not have the power longitudinal feed provided by the bed rack & pinion. The leadscrew on the A & B has a longitudinal groove that drives the power feed apron, with the thread on the leadscrew just being used for screwcutting. The C does not have the groove & just has half nuts – longitudinal feeds use the leadscrew thread. which causes more leadscrew wear & could (in theory) cause screwcutting errors.

TUDs seem an inexpensive way to buy an unworn bed to refurbish a more capable machine.

I have always considered Home & Workshop Machinery pricing to be "optimistic".

Nigel B.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

STEVEIGTR

If you are looking for extra chucks for your ML7 the chuck, or its backplate should have a thread 1.125 x 12 tpi Whit form.

When things return to normal, you should be able find a backplate to fit a ML7 quite easily (Arc Euro certainly sell them).

Hope that you did not lose / misplace any shims when you removed the mandrel to take it to the auto jumble.

Personally would not have done it that way, but hopefully, no harm done.

If it broke, don't fix. Disturbing things without good reason could cause more harm than good.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 06/04/2020 10:06:06

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 05/04/2020 19:42:13:

So what chinese lathes are any good?

I replaced my Myford Speed 10 with a Warco WM250V five years ago. I kept my Jacobs chuck and Myford double-swivel vertical slide and used them on the Warco.

There were a couple of issues early on with the Warco, arguably my own fault, but all were resolved very successfully. I use it most days and have done a pretty wide variety of work on it. On every imaginable criterion it's a long way ahead of any ML10 variant.

I wouldn't go back to the Myford 10 now for all the tea in China.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 05/04/2020 22:31:35:

Im looking into the Boxford box lathes, they maybe very efficient in what they do, which is of course the primary goal, but lack the charisma of a myford super 7 style lathe. Or Is it me just being a tart?

Yes, you are just being a tart.

Now where did i put those fishnets and stilletos?

Regards,

A happy Boxford camper.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by thaiguzzi on 06/04/2020 10:20:08:

Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 05/04/2020 22:31:35:

Im looking into the Boxford box lathes, they maybe very efficient in what they do, which is of course the primary goal, but lack the charisma of a myford super 7 style lathe. Or Is it me just being a tart?

Yes, you are just being a tart.

Now where did i put those fishnets and stilletos?

Regards,

A happy Boxford camper.

Yup, the moment you start talking about charisma, you've left Engineering.

[Paul Smith 37Participant @paulsmith37]

The other criteria which ive forgotten is the ability to move it fairly easily, as ive a view of moving in a couple of years, so i dont want a 400 kg monster to lug about. Yes, i accept im a tart. haha

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I took out my headstock shaft, if that's what it is called

The correct term is "spindle". The threaded section that you wish to try in a backplate is the "spindle nose".

It is not, as some insist on calling it, a "mandrel". A mandrel is a form of workholding device that is mounted on the spindle, in a chuck or between centres.

Nigel B.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 05/04/2020 22:31:35:

Im looking into the Boxford box lathes, they maybe very efficient in what they do, which is of course the primary goal, but lack the charisma of a myford super 7 style lathe. Or Is it me just being a tart?

Since you ask, yes, that's how tarts think!

What do you want a lathe for? If it's for cutting metal, almost any machine will do. For rough work, badly worn classic machines and rough Chinese can both perform. In skilled hands it's remarkable what can be done.

In 1947, Myford released a hobby lathe that made all the others look dated or inadequate. It included many modern features – like guarded gears – and was well made. It struck an excellent balance between quality, size, functionality and price. Price was vital, because, although an expensive stretch for most, Myford lathes were just affordable.

Most other good lathes were aimed at the professional market. The cheapest Boxford was about half as expensive again as Myford's dearest machine. Other makes were seriously big money. Mostly bigger and heavier than the Super 7 with complicated 3-phase power requirements. They were bought by schools, colleges, universities, garages, workshops, and factories for whom Myford lathes were too small and on the delicate side.

Time marches on!

From 1980-ish onwards CNC made most manual machines obsolete. Many were and are sold in excellent condition, often much cheaper than a Myford. Myford have a deservedly good reputation but part of it is suspect. Model Engineers had spent 40 years telling themselves that Myford made the best lathe in the world, which was only true while the alternatives were unaffordable.

As VFD's have solved the 3-phase problem and second-hand professional lathes are being dumped by industry and education, its realistic for hobbyists to go up-market from Myford.

At the same time, Far Eastern makers started producing lathes of more modern design. Easier and cheaper to manufacture than a Super 7, and – for the hobby market, made down to a price. They're a bit rough, but despite numerous minor warts, my WM280 is 'better' than a Super 7 because it's bigger, and cheaper, and does all that I want of it. (26mm spindle bore) True it has no charisma, but I bought it to cut metal, and don't mind fettling it myself! Not clear exactly were the Chinese designs came from; the general approach reflects European and USA thinking developed during the 1950s, which recognises the foolishness of paying for unnecessary quality.

When Chinese lathes are discussed on the forum, we mean the hobby machines. As far as I know, no-one on the forum has ever bought an expensive Chinese lathe. If you have £10,000 plus to spend they do some nice machines…

30 years ago, telling beginners to buy Myford was good advice. Dubious today because the machines are 30 years older and there are far more alternatives.

In the end, it's what you want. I don't care my lathe is warty, others are thoroughly irritated by minor issues. I wanted to buy a lathe to fit the space available, have it delivered, and be able to return it if it was a dud. At the time I wasn't confident I could check out a second-hand lathe, and I couldn't travel far to look at candidates. But that's just me, you might enjoy the hunt, and value pride of ownership.

Do you like a sparkly clean tidy workshop? Mine's a disgrace. Your goals, interests and psychology matter.

Dave

[Paul Smith 37Participant @paulsmith37]

Thanks Dave, great reply!

My workshop mostly is a mess, and i focus upon what im making, however, a lada niva will get you to your destination as would a nice golf. Id prefer the golf.

I think you have to enjoy using the machine as that is part of the experience of making the item in hand, having a machine which is a nuisance to use is a pain in the arse for me .

Ive a Warco pillar drill, thats ok, you can tell its chinesium, but it does its job,not quality, but it drills holes.

My ideal machine would be a big bore super 7. But i cant warrant 10 grand on it.My idea was to buy a 2 grand super 7 and fit a big bore headstock to it. and add the metric conversion for the gearbox LIghtish, portable, big capacity, threadcutting, umpteeen speeds,.and you can use it as a milling machine( you can with lathes with the correct tooling).

I guess that exercise would cost 3.5k if i can get the headstock at 1500 pounds.

So that money could buy an off the shelf unit with a reasonable quality level.

The hunt continues….

Most of the boxfords ive seen are three phase, but that doesnt phase me! pardon the pun.

Ill see if the home workshop firm will let me in for a wander with gloves and a mask on for a peruse.

Thanks again Dave for a great reply.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by mgnbuk on 06/04/2020 11:11:26:

I took out my headstock shaft, if that's what it is called

The correct term is "spindle". The threaded section that you wish to try in a backplate is the "spindle nose".

It is not, as some insist on calling it, a "mandrel". A mandrel is a form of workholding device that is mounted on the spindle, in a chuck or between centres.

Nigel B.

That is true today but was not always so. Probably up to the 1950s or so the term mandrel was commonly used to describe what we now call the headstock spindle. Most of the old books on ME and lathes etc — by the likes of LH Sparey and Duplex — refer to the mandrel, which I always did think was odd. But apparently, the term mandrel originally referred to any shaft on which something else was mounted to rotate it, circular saws and lathes included.

That's my useless bit of trivia for the day!

Edited By Hopper on 06/04/2020 12:03:17

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For many years my ambition was to own a Myford (mainly because it was the only hobby lathe of which I was aware. I had operated DSG, Edgwick, herbert and Ward in Industry )

Finally I got one, but the design was over forty years old, and I found limitations, for what I wanted to do. So, perhaps it was not the best choice. Before it went, it had been fitted with Long Cross Slide, Fourway Toolpost, Swivelling Vertical Slide, Rear Toolpost, Micrometer Dials, a new countershaft and bushes.

On retiring I bought a larger far eastern machine. It has a number of features that the ML7 lacked, and came fully equipped, fitted with a VFD, at a quarter of the price of a new equivalent Super 7 Sigma, which lacked power cross.feed.

Over the last 16 years it has done all that I asked of it, and some things that were imagined to be beyond it.

Yes, there were a couple of silly minor, not insuperable, problems, and I have made one or two small mods, but overall it it suits me.

It will not command the price premium of a 7 Series, but does what is required. A carthorse perhaps rather than a steeplechaser?

Most of what I do could still be done on a ML7, but at the expense of wasted chucking pieces, and less conveniently.

Fantastic work has been, and is still, done on Myford 7 Series lathes but I have few regrets over my choice.

Everyone must decide what is most important and buy the machine that seems most fit for their purpose.

Howard

[Paul Smith 37Participant @paulsmith37]

Thanks Mr Hopper and Howard for your replies. Ill have to wait until this corona thing goes and have a trot over to Warco and check them out .

Any other brands and models which may fit the criteria?

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

While I still think you should buy a Boxford, I kinda agree with what you say. You need to enjoy using your lathe otherwise whats the point?

As well as the Boxford I also have a Chinese mini lathe. The Boxford encourages use because it is a pleasure to work on. The mini lathe on the other hand drives me up the wall because jobs seem to take twice as long. Probably because I spend much of the time troubleshooting why it isnt working properly. 😒

If you have your heart set on a Myford, buy a Myford. It's not like you are buying junk, they are a good machine and they hold their value anyway. I have a feeling that in your case buying anything other would leave you with a sense of unfulfillment.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Mick B1 on 06/04/2020 10:37:10:

.

… the moment you start talking about charisma, you've left Engineering.

.

And [perhaps] become an amateur in the true sense of the word.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

< deleted double post  >

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 06/04/2020 12:22:32

[Paul Smith 37Participant @paulsmith37]

If we didnt have passion and charisma in engineering, you wouldnt have motorcars like ferrari ,lamborghini, but big powerful square boxes with the sex appeal of last nights half eaten kebab and stale half lager left overs.

Form over fashion achieves the mission of getting the project completed , but does the end result want you to look at it and think…..Yeah i made that,,thats cool….. Or that will do it works.? Thats the definition of form over fashion.Both will achieve the same end goal, but one makes you smile.for a long time.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Fitness for purpose will do the job, but not necessarily please the eye. Land Rover Series, 1 and 2 spring to mind.

But a highly polished part will take a lot longer, and may not not work any better than the less refined version.

A Reliant Robin will take you from place to place less speedily and comfortably than a Rolls Royce Corniche, but you should get there.

A machine with a beautiful shiny paint job may not turn any better, (possibly even worse, if the labour has been spent on polishing rather than accuracy ) than a rough looking machine. People produce good work on hundred year old Drummonds, better than a shiny new "built down to rock bottom price" machine.

Ultimately, the criterion, surely, has to be accuracy rather than a high gloss finish in seventeen glorious colours.

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

A passing thought about how we now expect so many 'extras'. Before ww2 many hobby lathes came without dials on the feedscrews and people just managed without. And you still see old lathes on ebay without them. Yet once you have a lathe making a handwheel dial is a trivial exercise. It is strange that people didn't just make these and all the other upgrades themselves.

[Paul Smith 37Participant @paulsmith37]

But shoddily built to a price lathes that look great and dont produce decent work are no good to anybody except the seller, this is what we all try and avoid.

I know im looking for the holy grail but im sure with a bit of effort the goal is achievable.

And doesnt look like a washing machine

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Making accessories not only adds to the usefulness of the machine, but greatly expands one's knowledge and experience.

Without a micrometer dial, the old machinists were skilled at knowing how hard and how much to nudge the handle to take a cut.

My old turning instructor could work to within a few thous with a worn 6 inch rule, far better than i could as an inexperienced Apprentice armed with a depth mic!

Howard.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 06/04/2020 12:52:03:

But shoddily built to a price lathes that look great and dont produce decent work are no good to anybody except the seller, this is what we all try and avoid.

…

But can you name a no-good lathe being sold in the UK by a reputable supplier? (Internet purchasing from abroad is different.)

The Chinese lathes don't meet Paul's criteria. Although they're built to a price and assembled in a hurry, they don't win any beauty contests, and they can produce decent work. No one claims they are a good choice for a tool-room.

Well made lathes hold their settings better, have a smoother feel, and generally save time. They make life easier for the owner. But their motors aren't magically more powerful (though may be continuously rated for sweat-shops.) The dials might be more accurate, but dials aren't essential to accurate work. Low backlash is good, but backlash can be worked around. Thread precision depends on gear ratios, not how polished the change gears are. Being more rigid might allow heavier cuts, but again not essential to accuracy. And lathes all work in the same way: cutting is relative to a spinning axis, which means lathes as basic as a watchmakers turns can still produce accurate work.

In a blind test I think it would be impossible to tell the difference between sample rods turned on a random mix of Super 7s, Chinese, and other machines. Easier to detect the difference between experienced and inexperienced operators.

Knowing how long it took to make each item would be a better guide to the quality of the machine that made it: I'd expect the better lathes to be easier to drive and therefore more productive. But even that's dubious, – a fast Chinese machine with carbide inserts might well leave an Super 7 an HSS in the dust.

It comes back to what individuals want their machines for. Horses for courses…

Dave

PS Though not essential, I bought an extra-comfy chair for armchair engineering.

[Paul Smith 37Participant @paulsmith37]

Dont get me wrong here, if i knew i could get a really good chinese lathe for 3k id buy it, one thats going to last me out and still be able to fix it in a few years time, thats great. What i dont want is the unobtanium part that breaks and kills the beast.Yes i know most parts can be made or fabricated,but i cant be arsed.If said part breaks, hello have you an unobtanium 123? yes is 20 pounds , in the post and youll receive it tomorrow. great!

One thing ididnt like about the warco was the three nuts to hold the chuck on, screw on chucks are far easier.

I bought a brand new Oxford mig welder last year, and it was messing around, i ended up speaking to guy on the production floor that built it, 2 minutes later, fixed. entirely my fault i add. and also built to my spec, unheard of for a mig welder.

I bought it as it was English and made in the uk. I also bought a Chinese Tig and Arc.If im honest the build quality on the Chinese stuff is superior.one has a 5 year warranty and the other a 3 year. The Oxford had a two year warranty.

I couldnt find a Chinese mig with the build format i wanted.The difference inside is that the english mig looks like it was built in a shed, and welds great which is what it is supposed to,do inside the chinese stuff its much better. However when the chinese stuff goes up the wall, youll be hard pressed to find somebody to mend it .Whereas any bright spark will mend the Mig. I think you have to be happy in the clothes you choose to wear, thats what makes the world go round.

As a by the by,ive recently returned to metalwork as a hobby and it astonishes me what jobs you can achieve with a small lathe.

 

Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 06/04/2020 14:45:26

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

**LINK** – what about something like that

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 06/04/2020 12:35:01:

If we didnt have passion and charisma in engineering, you wouldnt have motorcars like ferrari ,lamborghini…

I wouldn't care if we didn't. All they are is vanity possessions. They have no practical advantage over ordinary vehicles and represent a grotesque consumption of resources.

Not that I wanna get political or anyfing…

[Author]

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