Speed limiters for cars from 2022?

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Amongst a note from the HomeWatch about speed limits on residential roads, there was a brief and very non-technical mention that from 2022 new cars will be fitted with speed limiters which will somehow interact with sensors in the road which will "tell" the car what the speed limit is on that road, and restrict the car's speed appropriately.

Anyone know anything about this or have HomeWatch got it wrong?

Rod

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

I don't know about the Homewatch programme, but a couple of points:-

Firstly I regularly drive minibuses fitted with speed limiters and while some come into effect smoothly one of our vehicles has a very sudden cut off of power which makes it unpleasant to drive at motorway speeds where the limiter is 65mph. As a driver you have to be aware of this as otherwise it could be dangerous – say in an overtaking manoevre. Such a system on every road could increase accidents.

Secondly and most importantly, how are these sensors going to be fitted to every road in less than 2 years?

On the whole unlikely I'd say.

[Mark BarronParticipant @markbarron78673]

My car 'reads' road signs including speed limits and there's a speed limit setting on the cruise control. It'll be quite simple to link these features together so the car won't drive above the prescribed speed limit. The era of self-driving cars is just around the corner!

[Gordon AParticipant @gordona]

5G network perhaps?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

GPS and Google Maps. My friends new car has a warning voice that comes out of the dashboard every time she exceeds the local speed limit and tells her to obey the law. Even on 40kmh zones only 100metres long or so on the approach to roundabouts etc.

I'm ready to rip the speaker out already.

But it's one step away from linking it to the throttle body and ABS module.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Every month there are less and less freedoms in this life

Fewer and fewer choices, more and more control

I hope there's no reincarnation, now that would REALLY hack me off

definitely seen the best times as far as an individual is concerned and going to get a lot worse too as our population increases

Scotland a lot worse than England, the Tartan Taliban just love to ban everything

Edited By Ady1 on 04/12/2020 10:53:00

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Scalextric here we come

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

The last gov epression of method I came across was simply restricting cars to 70mph with a short time period of over-ride in case of necessity.
Any new system would take years to implement because it'd only apply to new cars and perhaps a very few current models that could be retro-fitted.
GPS and Google is all very well but Google not updated often enough.

I have both GPS and Google and Sign recognition in my car and if I have it on self-drive then I do need to intervene on ocassions to avoid drivers behind getting annoyed.. There's one stretch where the 30 limit was shortened and cars expect now to speed up. Another section where the 20mph is advisory during school start/stop itmes but car thinks it applies always and worst is when its a tenporary road-works situation and the guys forget to place an end of limit sign (or it blows over). It's also very easily spoofed by a crude home-made paper sign.

Any new system will also have to be able to cope with 'smart' motorway overhead sign changes with a lot of potential problems

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 04/12/2020 10:44:46:

GPS and Google Maps. My friends new car has a warning voice that comes out of the dashboard every time she exceeds the local speed limit and tells her to obey the law. Even on 40kmh zones only 100metres long or so on the approach to roundabouts etc.

I'm ready to rip the speaker out already.

But it's one step away from linking it to the throttle body and ABS module.

Absolutely! Actually there are several technologies that could do this. Probably the easiest is to fit the car with a built-in satnav : their maps know all about speed limits. Also possible for a computer to decode road-signs, or to accommodate restrictions issued over the mobile phone network, itself reacting to road-side sensors, or a police control centre. There are cameras everywhere.

I'd expect this sort of technology in crowded town centres, not on the open road.

The argument in favour of this sort of intrusion is most accidents are caused by drivers! Obviously not Knights of the Road like us; it's all those boy racers, drunks, sleeping lorry drivers, mobile phone users, and other incompetents! Have to say there's a lot of them about. Yesterday I had to break hard on a quiet main road when a BMW pulled out in front of me; then the driver drove at 25 to 30mph though a 40mph limit, maintaining that through the 50mph and 60mph limits. Car positioned on the white centre line except when clipping corners. My guess, poor eyesight.

Dave

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

This 5G hoo-haa with china has been partly because everything is going to be cross connected, even at a local level, over the next 20 years

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The boy racers will always find ways to bypass the technology. Been doing it for years already on engine control modules etc. Easy as fitting a new chip and viola extra horsepower and the heck with emissions.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

There has been talk of speed control of vehicles for a good few years now, and as far as I know, a system known as ISA (Intelligent Speed Adaptor/Adaption) was proven to work satisfactorily some years ago. At that time the idea was for new cars from a certain date (2019?) to be fitted with this system but under switch control for optional usage, but from a later date (2022?) the switch would not be fitted thus removing the option. The idea was that the vehicle would pick up data from satellite system (GSM?) and thus know what its maximum speed should be. Furthermore, the idea was that once a majority of vehicles were so fitted, non-fitted vehicles would a) stand out if speeding; or b) would be forced by traffic levels to conform.

A side effect was that speed could be reduced to whatever was thought to be suitable, eg zero, by someone (Police?) in an office many, even hundreds, of miles away!

Although I have never been a bus driver, I was intrigued by a system in use back in about 1994. Here some early H or J reg buses had drive by wire (I assume) controls along wih an upper control speed of about 50mph It was fascinating to hear the engine note changing whilst the bus maintained a more or less constant smooth acceleration up to 50mph when acceleration ceased. Slightly later buses had a slightly different system, or maybe were lower powered, but these buses used to decelerate as they approached 50mph.

It was interesting, and no doubt illegal, that one particular driver "found an extra gear" when travelling down the M621 into Leeds. I estimate he was doing about 60mph whilst out of gear.

Peter G. Shaw

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

During Covid, my wife and I have been doing a fair amount of walking. This includes roads with pavements and country lanes with speed limits. Having observed the clowns (usually BMW or white van drivers), I am quite certain that something does need to be done. With so much discussion on green technology, I don't understand why every car has to be so powerful and large these days but that is another topic. Over the 12 months, the walking has been far more dangerous than Covid -19.

Dangerous to drive with a speed limiter? – not if you know about the limiter and drive correctly.

Freedoms? – what about the freedom of everybody else trying to use the roads?

Boy racer bypass? – rights of the driver removed, car taken away and destroyed – easy?

Whether we need technology or simply lower the size and power of cars – I'd start with the latter first – oh and the ridiculous white van inflation too. Why does every tradesperson need a massive white van?

My thoughts.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The best thing ever was speed bumps on residential streets

Hated them at first, then went to the Irish Republic where even crossing a quiet residential street was a dicing with death experience because they had none

The best speed limiter system of all is is a zero technology one that bashes the car about and costs drivers money

Edited By Ady1 on 04/12/2020 12:01:59

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I am quite certain that something does need to be done

"Something" did used to be done – it was called "Roads Policing" & used speicialist Traffic Police officers to monitor & interact road users. Something that succesive Chief Constables have eroded over many years, to the point that Traffic Police patrols are now so infrequent to warrant a comment when I see one.

The widespread adoption of various camera technologies is not an accepatable substitute IMO & neither is widespread automation via in-car technology.

"Speed bumps" are a PITA that cause a lot of damage to the likes of ambulances & have been noted to have conytributed to less-than-favourable outcome in cases where ambulances have bee held up by them. A classic case of local politicians imposing something to be "seem to be doing something", even when the "something" isn't a great solution.

Nigel B.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Yes 2022 is the year it all happens link here to an article:-

Speed

Speed bumps are intrusively noisy if you live in a house near one also some people seem to try and see how fast they can drive over them.

 

Edited By V8Eng on 04/12/2020 12:37:09

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I'm sure the issue of limiting speeds was raised a few years ago and the police were against it on the grounds that , in an emergency you may have to exceed the speed limit to avoid blocking an emergency vehicle.

I'm sure it was Garmin that put this forward, saying that their database covered all UK roads and had speed limits for all of them and that interfacing to the car from the GPS would not be difficult to implement.

Obviously time and memory may have distorted this.

David.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I thought the UK was leaving the EU ?

EU ruling means speed limiters will be mandatory in the UK by 2022.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Just wait until speeding fines drop through the door for the vehicle, not the driver. Could easily be done.

Likely extension would be notification by email and (then) automatic removal of funds from a bank account? Only applicable to honest citizens of course, not pikeys, new age travellers and the host of people that drive without insurance, driving licences, etc.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 04/12/2020 13:22:29:

I thought the UK was leaving the EU ?

EU ruling means speed limiters will be mandatory in the UK by 2022.

 

I have also read that the U.K. will still be implementing it after leaving (can’t find that article).

Edited By V8Eng on 04/12/2020 13:39:08

[Steve NeighbourParticipant @steveneighbour43428]

Posted by Phil H1 on 04/12/2020 11:54:45:

Whether we need technology or simply lower the size and power of cars – I'd start with the latter first – oh and the ridiculous white van inflation too. Why does every tradesperson need a massive white van?

My thoughts.

Firstly the size and power of a vehicle is somewhat irrelevent – a small 'low power' car is usually more than capable of exceeding the UK speed limit these days.

Secondly most delivery van drivers are carrying (and one hopes delivering) 100's of parcels on any given day, so their van may be rammed full at the start of their work, or likelwise empty when they are heading back.

Years ago, I was at the roadside with a work colleauge when a car went past at a significantly excessive speed, I remarked "look at that reckless idiot" !!

To which my colleauge replied "You never know what another persons haste is, he may be rushing to a hospital"

So, these days I am a lot more tolerant of others these days, we all have a right to live our lives how we wish, unfortunately there are those who seem to lack common sense are think laws apply to them – for those individuals we have the Police !!

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

David Colwill

Apparently breaking the speed limit, moving into a bus lane, crossing a red light, mounting a pavement etc to make way for an emergency vehicle can all result in fines (often automatic) and may well fail to argue mitigation in court. RAC has an article on that somewhere searchable..

Not done it yet

I thought fines drop through the letterbox for the registered owner with legal obligations to notify who was driving? If lucky you get away with a speed awareness course (t'was a while ago on a wide clear road on a quiet sunday just after a limit change)

pgk

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by V8Eng on 04/12/2020 12:34:20:

…Speed bumps are intrusively noisy if you live in a house near one also some people seem to try and see how fast they can drive over them.

Nothing new there. When I was an apprentice at Marchwood Power Station one of my fellow apprentices decided to test out the speed bumps on the private roads there. He took his Ford Anglia over them at increasing speed and found that at about 25 mph his head hit the roof (no seat belt of course). He persevered, despite or perhaps because of the bang on his head, and found that at 40 mph the car went over with barely a shudder. After that he always approached them at forty. That was in 1971.

George B.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I've had some very quick cars, I've had some very slow cars, and I've had some very fun cars. The latter were usually the slow cars. I've had mk1 MX5s in the past, mainly because you can be driving around with a huge grin without doing 1000mph.

There is entertainment to be had enjoying a small car with skinny tyres; dual carriageway Grand Prix is for the reckless who confuse top speed with driving ability/enjoyment. Where is the fun in straight line speed unless you are on the salt flats?

I'm interested in those who say they had to use acceleration to get out of trouble, I'd love to hear some examples.

I'd rather watch the One Make Racing Championships (usually all cars with a 5th of the bhp of an F1 car) than F1. Driving enjoyment doesn't have to be flat out. If they limit my speed to the legal limit I really wouldn't care. As I understand it my car is limited to 112mph anyway, but as I didn't get it to use on track it doesn't make the slightest difference to me.

Edited By Jon Lawes on 04/12/2020 15:58:52

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