Search Results for 'arc euro'

[Robert Bowen-Cattry]

On 23 September 2024 at 11:26 Robert Bowen-Cattry Said:

…

I’ve had my mill a few months now …

What sort of mill is it.  Fitting fancy cutters to a basic mill probably won’t improve it much.

When I got the mill I bought a small selection of 2 and 4 flute cutters in a couple of diameters from ArcEuro. These have served me well and allowed me to learn, however some YouTube education has led me to believe that I will get better results with better cutters.

Youtube has no quality control.  It’s a mix of good and bad advice.  Trouble is the best videos require an experienced machinist, who is also a good communicator, and knows how to make a watchable video.  Not that common.   Quite a few are made by inexperienced machinists with video skills, and it can be fun watching them to see how many inadvertent mistakes they make.  Another group are ‘influencers’ – rewarded in some way to push products, and therefore prone to bias.

My experience of ArcEuro is good.  I’d describe them as a careful vendor of mid-range products, priced to suit hobbyists, but capable of reasonable performance on hobby machines.   You need to ask exactly what a top-end cutter will do for you.   Briefly:

• Will be to specification out of the box – no blunt, mis-ground, or poorly hardened.   This is important to professionals because time is money, much less so to hobbyists who don’t mind a delay replacing a dud.
• Long life when run at commercial speeds.   Again, important to professionals, but very few hobbyists run cutters at anything like commercial rates.  Our machines lack power, speed and rigidity, and we probably don’t cool or remove swarf to spec either But in general, posh cutters last a bit longer than cheaper ones.   I’ve not found it worth paying the extra, but it depends on what you do in your workshop.
• Guaranteed balance for high-speed running.  Probably a waste of money in a hobby workshop.
• Making it less likely that poor results could be due to a defective tool.  That allows the operator to concentrate on what he’s doing wrong!  But a bad operator can quickly convert an expensive cutter into a dud: I’d rather learn on mid-range cutters and check them for damage with a loupe, rather than fling money at well-made cutters in hope they’ll survive my blunders.
• Bragging rights down the club!
• Also acceptable if coughing up makes you happy.   Many enjoy using good tools, even if they make no practical difference.   Reassuringly expensive is a thing.

So I really wanted to get peoples opinions of the validity of this, and if it is correct what sort of budget should I be allowing for cutters, which are the better makes, and where is good to buy from?

Simple answer, assuming lots of cash, is someone like Cutwel.   I doubt they get a lot of business from hobbyists though, because as a group we lust after industrial quality only until told the cost!   A nice 20mm 4 Flute Multiple Helix K2 Coated Carbide Chamfer Prep Weldon Shank End Mill from Cutwel is £124.10 plus VAT, and maybe postage.   Are you up for spending on that scale Robert?

My experience, based on relatively light experimental work in a Far Eastern equipped workshop is that posh cutters don’t make enough difference for me to spend big money on them.   Someone who works faster on high volume output needing a quick good finish might get a different answer, one that might include upgrading their machines as well.

Budget depends entirely on how much metal you cut.  Many small cutters are consumables, and it might well be cheaper to burn through several inexpensive cutters rather than tie money up in posh one.

Where not to buy from may be helpful.  This is difficult: ebay and similar do offer genuine bargains.  Trouble is they are mixed in with carp and it’s hard to know what’s what.   Avoid too cheap, vendors who don’t have an engineering track record, and imports.   Not that they are all dishonest, but a proportion are flogging manufacturing seconds, worn tools in new boxes, forgeries, and factory rejects.   The reputable UK suppliers are unlikely to send complete rubbish, and should refund/replace if a lemon gets to a customer.

…

B

 

 

Dave

Good morning all,

I’ve had my mill a few months now and am starting to get to grips with it, made a few small parts and planning on buying and building a couple of Hemingway kits.

When I got the mill I bought a small selection of 2 and 4 flute cutters in a couple of diameters from ArcEuro. These have served me well and allowed me to learn, however some YouTube education has led me to believe that I will get better results with better cutters.

So I really wanted to get peoples opinions of the validity of this, and if it is correct what sort of budget should I be allowing for cutters, which are the better makes, and where is good to buy from?

Many thanks,

B

 

 

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Yes a boring head is the way to go and I would suggest some practice holes before the real thing. You will also need to buy boring tools to fit the boring head, have a look at Arc Euro trade, Chronos, RDG or online sellers. Come back with further questions as needed.

Tony

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

+1 for Sliding Die and Tap holders. (Buy a 2MT blank arbor, the actual Die Holders, and drill chuck from Arc Euro, and then insert a bar into the blank arbor). Make bodies to carry the Die Holders, and the drill chuck.

They need to be a fairly slack sliding fit on the bar, (say 0.005″ clearance) so that the Dies, or Taps can self centre on the workpiece.

(Include a radial tapping to take an anti rotation bar, which can bear against the Cross Slide or the  toolpost).

These activities will give you practice, so that you gain confidence, and familiarity with the machine. You will also have a couple of tools which will be used in the future.

Using Dies or Taps under power may mean that the speed is too fast, even using Back Gear. If this is the case, make a Mandrel Handle, so that the spindle can be rotated by hand.  This will have the advantage when working upto a shoulder, or in a blind hole that you can feel when you reach the end, and stop.

Under power, you could suffer the calamities of hitting the end and stripping the thread that you have just cut, or even worse, breaking the Tap on the work!

If you want, I can provide pictures of a Mandrel Handle, and advice on how to make one.

Howard

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

+1 for Jasons fix. I’d make the step a bit longer with a shallow slope at the entry. Getting a shallow saw on dead straight onto a barely wider step will be challenging. Almost certain to want to wiggle.

However my commercial one bought from ArcEurotrade “not telling you how many years ago” isn’t perfectly on size either.

But neither are the saws themselves.

One is sufficiently tight that I seriously doubt that it would go on a dead nuts holder. The others go from a tage slack to a couple of tages slack if you see what I mean. I did measure the diameter when I first noticed the differences but exactly what the error was I no longer recall. I want to say around 5 thou, anything seriously more and I’d most likely been on the phone “OK I know economy range won’t be dead nuts but this is going a bit far.”.

So mine is a bit better than yours but same ballpark.

Slitting saws aren’t a commonly used tool for me but I don’t recall ever having issues attributable to a slack fit. Important thing is to get the workpiece set up nicely with appropriate feeds and speeds dialled in. For some reason my instinct has always been to want to run them too fast. So I always check the numbers. Lubrication really helps.

0.25 mm / 10 thou difference in cut as the saw goes round will make no noticeable difference unless the operating settings are way, way out.

Clive

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I can understand why your mentor might advise that but probably based on his own experience, possibly in industry.  If you did manage to find one sub 1k it’s likely to be in poor condition and would hinder you as a novice never knowing whether it was your skill level or the machine.  Also for this type of lathe you would need to factor in a generous allowance for moving a heavy chunk of iron.

You will see on this site that many people (JasonB for one) have done excellent work on Chinese machines and you can buy a package including a range of accessories from ArcEurotrade for one at a price withing your budget.  And you get a warranty from a well-regarded supplier.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

I can second the SC4 lathe, having had both an ML7 and 254 lathe I moved house and decidedto give up model engineering. That was a mistake as I had to start over when withdrawal symptoms kicked in.

I bought a mini lathe which I used for a while, and it was ok but I found it a bit small  for what I needed.

Visiting Arc Eurotrade I looked at the SC4 and bought one, a good move, for the price and quality I can reccomend it .

Whilst the Myford is a good lathe the price of it for a beginner is , in my opinion, too dear.

Ian

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

For the original question, I don’t think anyone who has recently bought a new “New Myford” has replied.
Personally I would not buy a new Myford (I have a early ML7, Seig mini-mill from ARC Euro Trade and a Pultra) but that’s personal. If paying for a new S7 does not leave the hobby budget so depleted that you struggle to fund tooling materials etc then that is a clear indication that it is not a good idea. If the budget is OK then it is a technical and personal preference decision. Enough has been said on those.

Robert.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Check the motor rating, and the marking on the control board.

There are two different, non interchangeable, control boards.

Arc Euro list both, but do get the correct one!

Howard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You can still get the SX2 in the case of ARC it is the SX2PG which is the brushless twin gas strut model with rigid column.

Price is more likely to have been the SX3 as someone else wrongly suggested that ARC were doing that with a bundle at the moment. It is actually the SX3.5ZP bundle that the recent email was about. but well over budget.

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

Welcome to the Forum.

You have a useful lathe there!

If you want a refresher course, buy some books. Stan Bray’s “Basic Lathework” (Rrevised as WPS 45), Harold Hall’s “Lathework, A Complete Course”  (WPS 35)

Dave Fenner, David Clask and Neil Wyatt have all written books specifically for the mini lathe.

If you want any spares (If you haven’t got one, before too long you will find a need for an independent 4 jaw chuck.)

The SC2 was made by Sieg who supply Arc Euro Trade and Machine Mart as well as Axminster. There will be detail differences between parts for other mini lathes imported by others, such as Warco or AMAdeal.

You will find Arc Euro carry spares / accessories, and to be most helpful if detail advice is needed.

FWIW, gain experience with the machine by making simpole tooling that you can use with it. My hobby horse is a Centre Height Gauge, and Tailstock Sliding Die and Tap holders, and a Mandrel Handle.  (PM me for more details, if you want them).

Cuttinmg tools: If you buy a complete set of tipped tools, you are unlikely to use all of them,

Buying HSS toolbits will allow you to learn how to grind tools (Example, I grind a HSS toolbit so that one nd can make front chamfer, and the other end to make back chamfers)

The more that you use the lathe, the more you will be familiar with it, and confident in its use.

Good luck!

Howard

Hi Howard,

 

Thankyou for the reply, most helpful!

 

I was going to look into any decent books to start with! YouTube has been helpful although a lot of videos also assume you have a mill!

mine came with a 3 and four jaw chucks but they arent independent unfortunately so I think your right! tempted to stay 80mm as its what ARC recommend…..

 

I’ll send you a PM as that sounds like a good project! a carriage lock is on my list of bits to make but that’s more hand tools and drill press it seems (I have both so will be fine)

 

it looks like at someone point someone has drilled my carriage and tapped it, added a brass screw that then presses against the way to lock it, which doesn’t seem the best way and I think I’ll repurpose the hole as an oil hole! I get the impression it has caused a couple small marks on the way or they might just be where something has been dropped on on (doesn’t have any raises on it so doesn’t effect use but just an observation, it is a 2012 lathe after all)

 

currently near the end of the strip and clean, spent all day on it today and a good few hours previous, it had a lot of built up first in nooks and crannies, I followed the ARC guide and treated it like it was a new lathe. helps me to get t know how it all works too which is nice and I can make it all spotless and correctly lubricated.

 

Cheers

Andy

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

On teucher Said:

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

I looked and the SX2 is lower cost than the VM16
VM16 £1595
https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/303699-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

SX2L £1451 (the short table is a bit cheaper but the L is same size as VM16)
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/SIEG-SX27-Mill/SIEG-SX27-HiTorque-Mill

While broadly similar there are differences that make it hard to make direct comparision difficult. VM16 is brushed motor SX2 is Brushless. VM16 is tilting head SX2 is fixed.
Generally a brushless motor is preferable. Tilting head is less rigid and needs setting up every time it is moved and most tasks can be acheived on a fixed head with a tilting vice or similar.

Robert.

Robert, you are linking and pricing to a SX2.7L not a SX2L and then talk of an SX2.

Standard table is less prone to droop but that is the same for any mill with a long table even Bridgeports.

[teucher]

On teucher Said:

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

I looked and the SX2 is lower cost than the VM16
VM16 £1595
https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/303699-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

SX2L £1451 (the short table is a bit cheaper but the L is same size as VM16)
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/SIEG-SX27-Mill/SIEG-SX27-HiTorque-Mill

While broadly similar there are differences that make it hard to make direct comparision difficult. VM16 is brushed motor SX2 is Brushless. VM16 is tilting head SX2 is fixed.
Generally a brushless motor is preferable. Tilting head is less rigid and needs setting up every time it is moved and most tasks can be acheived on a fixed head with a tilting vice or similar.

Robert.

[teucher]

On teucher Said:

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

Were you buying two?

The latest Version is the SX2PG and that is £820 so well within budget and plenty to spend on tooling. You could even just manage the larger SX2.7 at £1420 if the budget stated did not include tools.

Have a look at the two articles at the top of the workshop section, they use the SX2.7 to do the cuts and video, it will give you an idea of what they can remove metal like. I’ll add a third part later today. Also note that the 2.7 is direct drive to spindle so no belts to change or gears to make noise or strip.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

+1 for Sieg from Arc Eurotrade. I have one of their smaller mill. I’m very pleased with it and their service both before and after purchase is excellent.

Robert.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

+1 for the advice to buy a Sieg from Arc Euro, for the advice that will ,be available.

How often will you use a tilting head? If rarely; rigidity should be more important factor.

A Rotary Table can be used for a variety of purposes, and will certainly allow you to mill work at an angle,as well for other puroses, hole / slot angular spacing (I use mine for gear cutting)

If a Rotary Table will not do what you want, from time to time, you can buy / make wedges to go under work.

Howard

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome to the Forum.

You have a useful lathe there!

If you want a refresher course, buy some books. Stan Bray’s “Basic Lathework” (Rrevised as WPS 45), Harold Hall’s “Lathework, A Complete Course”  (WPS 35)

Dave Fenner, David Clask and Neil Wyatt have all written books specifically for the mini lathe.

If you want any spares (If you haven’t got one, before too long you will find a need for an independent 4 jaw chuck.)

The SC2 was made by Sieg who supply Arc Euro Trade and Machine Mart as well as Axminster. There will be detail differences between parts for other mini lathes imported by others, such as Warco or AMAdeal.

You will find Arc Euro carry spares / accessories, and to be most helpful if detail advice is needed.

FWIW, gain experience with the machine by making simpole tooling that you can use with it. My hobby horse is a Centre Height Gauge, and Tailstock Sliding Die and Tap holders, and a Mandrel Handle.  (PM me for more details, if you want them).

Cuttinmg tools: If you buy a complete set of tipped tools, you are unlikely to use all of them,

Buying HSS toolbits will allow you to learn how to grind tools (Example, I grind a HSS toolbit so that one nd can make front chamfer, and the other end to make back chamfers)

The more that you use the lathe, the more you will be familiar with it, and confident in its use.

Good luck!

Howard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Not sure if a smal benchtop mill needs a coolant system, maybe allow a pound for a cheap brush and pot.

As Said the SIEG machines from ARC are also worth looking at and they quite often do starter packages with the items Speedy mentions (less coolant pump). The fact that they have ridgid heads rather than tilting like the others you mention makes them easier to keep in tram.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

In my experience machines from Arc Eurotrade are good value and their support is excellent.

[GazParticipant @gaz13336]

I replaced the board on mine in 2011 with the C2 Control Board XMT2325 from arc euro trade. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/C2-Mini-Lathe-Spares/C2-182B-Main-Control-Board-XMT2325

It worked fine until last year when it really started to play up, replaced with a vfd and a 1hp motor now.

[moonman]

On 23 August 2024 at 15:20 moonman Said:

…
I’m wondering what tables you guys use and if you recommend them or not? I don’t want to go mad budget wise but at the same time I want something worth keeping.

First make sure you understand the between a plain table that just rotates, an indexer which can be locked at a limited number of angles, and a rotary table driven by a worm and handle that can be positioned accurately at arbitrary angles.  The latter is often accessorised with a clock-hand / holed disc memory aid, attached where the handle goes.  Not needed for easy work like putting a hex head on a nut, but valuable when cutting lots of teeth on a big gearwheel.

A stepper motor and index software is a popular alternative to the clock because clocks are subject to human error, and the software does all the hard work.

Most of us go for a full rotary table.

The choices are:

1. Cough up for a new industrial rotary table.  Many newcomers are keen on buying the best until they discover industrial grade tools are typically 5 to 20 times more expensive than the hobby version!   A nice Bison costs about £6000.  Up to you to decide if that’s “mad budget wise” or not!   The item is guaranteed.
2. Search for a second-hand industrial table.    The risk here is buying SECONDHAND.   The item’s history and condition matter far more than who made it.  Anything between scrap and as new.   Unlikely to be guaranteed so best to inspect in person and know what to look for.
3. Buy a new hobby table.  Many different makers, typically copying a long out of patent protection western design, some good others too cheap.     If a lemon turns up, the game is replacing it or money back.  That’s when the vendor matters!

The internet gives purchasers plenty of opportunity to take risks!  Some examples:

1. Buy from abroad, saving loads of money unless it goes wrong!  Unexpected customs charges on more expensive goods.   UK consumer protection does not apply, so dealing with a lemon is your problem.
2. Buy via a UK Box Shifter like Vevor.   These firms aren’t tool suppliers so don’t expect any technical support.  They sell whatever they pick up, so quality varies.   UK consumer protection applies, so lemons are relatively low-risk
3. Buy from a UK hobby supplier.   UK consumer protection applies.   They are a little more expensive, but hobby suppliers are more likely to care about consistency than a box-shifter, and to understand the product, and to care about their reputation.   I normally buy from ArcEuro and Warco, but have also bought from RDG and others without complaint.

I suggest who the table is bought from matters more than the brand.  Being a pessimist, but not a fuss-pot perfectionist seeking to buy heirlooms, I go for option 3.

Important I think to keep a sense of perspective when buying hobby tools.  Some consider £500 to be a lot of money, and it isn’t!   Don’t expect a £500 rotary table to be as well finished or as accurate as the industrial version, but my experience is that mid-range tools are ‘fit for purpose’ in a hobby workshop.   Unless something special is required, don’t fret!   For what it’s worth, mine came from Warco:  About 10 years old, and still going strong, though I take care not to thrash it.

Dave

[John Hinkley]

On John Hinkley Said:

It’s all very well respondents telling John Doe 2 how to spend his money, as he says above.  But those of us who actually answered his query of “How to GLUE aluminium” are now getting stick for answering the original question.  …

I thought the glue answers were fine in so far as they went, but the issue is whether or not glued aluminium will be strong enough to do the job.

For example, I often stick Aluminium turning jobs to an Aluminium stub-mandrel with super-glue.  Works well, except perhaps one in twenty turnings breaks the joint – glue doesn’t like side shear.    Conversely, the glue sticks so firmly that the stub-mandrel has to be boiled in water, or even blowlamped, to separate the parts.    Point is, although superglue sticks Aluminium, the bond may not meet John’s requirement.

In WW2, the De Havilland Mosquito famously flew faster and higher than all other piston engined aircraft.  Made of wood with lots of weight saving glued joints resulted in it having an extremely light airframe pulled by two high-performance Merlins.  The Mosquito was a cheap easy to make aircraft that didn’t require scarce materials.   On the face of it wood and many wood-glues were readily available, so what could possibly go wrong?

Germany being short of Aluminium, and not having anything that could catch a Mosquito made determined efforts to copy them and failed.   Reason was that the British had a suitable new glue and Germany didn’t.   The glue available to Germany at the time was and is good stuff, but it didn’t cope with wet, making their version of the Mosquito air-frame unsafe on top of all the other usual development problems.   For the same reason, British Mosquitos were rare birds in hot steamy parts of the world, because hot tropical damp attacked the glue and wood faster than cold European wet.

I don’t see any harm in exploring the hidden depths of a question.

Dave

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome!

You might find what you want from Arc Euro Trade, RDG, Warco, or Axminster

Have a look on their websites

Howard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have a look at both the keyed and keyless chucks here, they get favorable comments from forum members

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

Buy from a reputable supplier with good aftershaves, such as ArcEurotrade. Buy cheap, buy twice.

That made me laugh!

What Brand aftershave do Ketan, Ian & the lads use i wonder? I’ll have to ask next time. 🙂

But their arbors are plenty good enough for me.

Yes,definitely buy from a reputable supplier such as, but not exclusively Arc.

The arbor is likely to have less runnout than the drill chuck mounted on it, probably even if you are well heeled & are buying an expensive drill chuck.