Surface grinders choice

[greenhillsParticipant @greenhills]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I’m looking at buying a surface grinder as I’ve a job that it would be handy for.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Which is a good choice? I’d ike auto feed ..</p>
J&S 540 comes up a lot but have read a couple of posts about them being troublesome. A few available ATM, one has no drive belt, one only traverses one way but won’t return..

My old works has a Churchill iitc and that seems good.

Any advice ?

Thank you 😊

 

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I used the highly popular J & S 540 for many many years with no particular problems. As always with used m/c tools condition is everything!

Tony

[renardiere7Participant @renardiere7]

Does the size/complexity of the job justify as complex a machine as a J&S 540.  There were plenty smaller manual machines made for the home workshop which are still capable of accurate work given a bit of physical effort.

Capco, Eagle come to mind and the EXE is a very nice machine.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I always used to do little s grinding jobs on my stent but have had a Lip like Stefans for a year or two now and oh what a difference. I know its manual but once youve learnt to rub your head and belly in opposite directions at the same time its fine, of course it may not be big enough ( 7 x 5 ) for some but it works for me.

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

The J&S 540 is a beautiful machine but when it goes wrong you need a maintenance department to repair it, get a manual machine and build up your arm muscles!!

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I was a service engineer in a toolmakers shop with loads of J&S grinders. A 540 if looked after will do you well. They have a hydraulic pump in the body which powers most of the functions ie hydraulic double ended cilinder which when traversing left and right operate a latch which changes direction and the ends of these wear but can be easily repaired. It also through wear the seals on the cylinder can leak but are available and easily changed. Check oil and pressure only use hydraulic oil.

David

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

The only trouble my 540 has given (so far) is electrical – the contractors are in a stupid place on the older ones, and get  fine abrasive/swarf and oiliness issues.

I also have the plain bearing head – which slowly leaks oil and I haven’t yet found the time or motivation to replace the seals. I do have a lot of the oil needed tho, so its not a disaster (yet)

Dave

[Charles JambonParticipant @charlesjambon]

I have a used J&S 540 (probably from the 1970’s) bought about 15 years ago. It has a ball bearing wheelhead with infrequent use but it runs fine. It also has a Bowers rotary table, a vertical spindle grinding attachment, “Precise” high speed attachment for taps and reamers and splines, high speed slot grinding attachment and Optidress plus 2 speed motor (useful for form grinding) with automatic downfeed. Lovely machne and exceptionally well designed and constructed. Plus spares are quite easy to find. I did have to change out some electrical elements and hydraulic hose but it is all quite accessible and easy to sort out. Really not a headache.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Drive belt is an easy replacement (it’s a specific flat belt, but andmar and/or Jubilee have them). Table only traversing in one direction is either the Z travel stop being triggered and the seller not knowing, the link between the trip lever and the valve being broken/missing or a need to clean the control valve block, in that order. Not difficult in any of those, although the latter will involve the purchase/making of a gasket or two (gasket paper is sufficient).

The only thing better than a 540 would be a 1400. DAMHIKT 😀

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Surface grinders, if badly worn are a PITA.  I couldn’t manage a 540 (weight and space) so eventually found an Eagle manual machine in good-ish order.  I’ve been happy enough with it, for the few times it is neeeded.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>The Eagle is a very basic machine without interchangeable hubs, no facility to balance the wheels and the bearing preload is set by the clamp nut torque. That said they are quite capable small machines, just require diligent lubrication to get good service life frame them. The knee top ways are a nuisance to lube as there is no direct lubrication method, you just pull back the bellows and fire some way oil in there. They also seem to have been fitted with all and any kind of random spindle bearings according to which way the wind is blowing.</p>
A good J&S540 is great, a worn out one is just a nightmare. I ended up taking a sledge hammer to mine and it was very satisfying too.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Wish I had a nice J&S 540.

I have an Eagle 5W. I have not been able to get rid of slight ripple which must be from spindle vibration from drive train, or from non-balanced wheels. But from a practical point of view the ripple is only cosmetic for the stuff I do.

The knee height adjustment is very stiff if the gibs are tightend to remove all slop. That might mean the leadscrew/nut is worn? Annoying.

Otherwise, the simplicty of the thing is its strength. Easy to strip and maintain.

Flattening large surfaces can be very boring – I recently made some 2″ angle iron ‘square’. I’m very tempted to put stepper motors on it to make it auto cycle. It seems a nice platform for that. Even just a stepper on height as that would fix my ‘stiffness’ issue i.e. power assisted (maybe a hammer to crack a nut).

I definately need to run coolant. Get a setup that allows that!

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

A 540 will serve you well. There are lots of resources on YouTube and other forums. They are really not that complex. One thing you cannot get around is wear on the sliding surfaces that’s the same for all surface grinders. Pricing seems very arbitrary so I would view a few machines before committing to one. ideally ask the seller to grind one of your jobs to check it will do what you require. Spindles are another scary area but again amateur s have rebuilt them. Do your research as I believe early 540’s may have had plain bearings. Eagles are good but bizarrely the direction of rotation is opposite to all the other SG’s I have seen or used, OK if you have never operated one but I’m in the habit of putting the job to the right of the wheel al la 540 do that on a Eagle and it will not end  well. eagles are simply built. Get one with flood coolant as grinding dry puts grit & dust everywhere. Learn to machine to fine tolerances as you don’t want to be hogging by grinding. A 46 grit wheel will do pretty much anything don’t be fooled by fancy colours and materials alox is cheap and effective. Finally don’t grind in your magnet until you have gained some experience as it’s easy to spoil it. Enjoy.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

If you go for a J&S 540 try to get one with the power rise and fall. Mine has the manual hand-wheel which is a bit of a PITA when doing various size jobs which is almost always in the home workshop because we are not in the mass-production business and you usually need to wind the wheel well up when setting up jobs

Also, if the table only moves to the right and stops it means the shuttle valve has seized which is buried deep in the inside under the table. It’s a bit of a pain to get at but the table is only held on its slides by gravity so just disconnect the piston rods and lift it off (preferably with an assistant). I put the valve in the bench vice and whacked it with a hammer and brass rod. It took some shifting and I wasn’t sure it wouldn’t need replacing but it seemed to have suffered no real damage. I don’t do much on it these days but occasionally run the table for a couple of minutes to make sure it hasn’t seized again. I think it must have been stood dormant for quite a while with some water contamination in the oil when I bought it. And, BTW, just like old British motorbikes 540’s seem to drip oil. I replaced all the gaskets and seals on mine with OEM parts from Narborough Road when it still existed but it made very little difference to the drip rate.

But despite all the ‘niggles’ that come with an older machine it is still to be desired, IMO. Mine is a 1972 machine and had been well-used during its ‘professional’ life but it will still hold 0.0002″ and sometimes better as far as I can measure in a back-shed workshop.

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