3MT or R8

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Hiya

I have a small clake milling machine that I'd like to upgrade.

I have been looking at a Warco VMC, it comes in 3MT and R8.

I wonder what the best way to go is?

I currently have some 2MT tools btw.

Chris

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

R8, as they're far less likely to jam tight to the taper.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 17/10/2012 10:27:44

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Chris,

As a user of a morse taper mill I would certainly prefer a self releasing taper. An R8 ER collet holder should cover all your needs. I certainly would not want to use 2MT taper tooling in a 3MT adapter.

cheers

Rod

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

No question, R8 for preference any day.

Once you get your mill, start saving up for a 3 axis DRO, you would not believe how much easier it makes life.

chriStephens

[TrevorKParticipant @trevork]

R8 taper and dovetail column are top priorities for my (first) mill. What's peoples views on using an r8 to mt2 adapter set-up to continue using my existing tools?

Trev.

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Trev,

Drill chucks, yes. Milling cutter chucks probably not as there might not be any way to use a draw bar, unless it goes all the way through the R8/MT3 adaptor, ie it would have to be small enough to fit inside the 7/16" R8 thread.

chriStephens

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

I am thinking about a Warco VMC Turret Mill with DRO's and a horizontal power feed, not forgetting a coolant pump.

One of these

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Hi Chris

I asked the same question to the forum re my SX2 I bought recently. I took the advice and went for the R8, and am very pleased with it.

Bob..

[TrevorKParticipant @trevork]

SX3 is my preference. At less than half the weight of the VMC though, does this mean its less muscular and I really ought to reconsider going for heavyweight options. Also looked at WM18 but no R8 option.

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

I use R8 collets and an R8/ER32 adaptor in my BP mill and most of the rest of my machines have an ER Collet Chuck of some sort so can share the use of my sets of Er32 collets.

I sometimes buy used slot drills/end mills, the shanks can sometimes be oddball sizes but by using an R8/ER32 adaptor with it's clamping range means these is nothing I cant mount securely and still remove easily.

Paul

[Brian O’ConnorParticipant @brianoconnor49474]

Hi Chris,

Earlier this year I bought a Warco VMC with and R8 spindle and have been very satisfied with my choice. As others have said, don't even consider the MT spindle, the R8 is far superior.

I decided to have power feed on the knee as well as the X axis, for two reasons: firstly it saves a lot of handle winding when changing table height, and for accurate Z-axis work I prefer to lock the quill and use the knee, which is much more rigid.

As Chris Stephens has said, also go for the 3-axis DRO, for me using one for the first time was a revelation.

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

I must confess to be puzzling as to what the knee is Brian ?

Can you expand on that please.

Chris

thanks for everyone's replies so far.

[Roger VaneParticipant @rogervane67137]

Hi Chris

Totally agree with the comments about R8 – much easier and kinder.

If you are buying new there is something else that you might like to consider. When I ordered my VMC the plan was to fit an inverter to give variable speed. I discussed this with Warco and they made a special order for R8 / Imperial / 3 phase. (I think that 3 phase metric is a standard offering). It took around 6 months to arrive which suited me as I was moving the workshop at the time.

I ordered an inverter and control station from Newton Tesla which was easy to fit – even for someone who doesn't understand the 'black art' of electrics. The benefit of ordering the 3 phase machine was that I didn't have to spend a load of cash replacing the single phase motor, which went a long way towards paying for the DRO.

The benefit of the inverter drive is that you can vary the speed with the twist of a dial – no belt changing which is a great time saver. It also allows for jog and forward / reverse which is great for tapping under power. The result is that I've probably changed the belts for that 'special job' less than 10 times in the last 3 years.

You'll find that the DRO and inverter drive will put the standard VMC into a different class.

Roger

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Sadly my workshop doesn't have 3ph

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

R8 is better than 3 Morse for almost all purposes (except purely academically for holding very big drills ) . However where it is available there is a better system still in common use and that is the ISO system . ISO 30 or 40 tooling is self releasing , massively rigid and can also have easy to implement powered hold/release .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

PS : The knee on a milling machine is the big solid bracket slide that runs up and down the column and which carries the table and its slides on top .

Not all milling machines have knees . In another common configuration the table and slides sit solidly on the machine base and the cutter head assembly slides up and down the column instead .

[Roger VaneParticipant @rogervane67137]

Hi Chris

You don't need a 3 phase supply to the workshop – the inverter does the conversion from single phase to three phase for you and allows you to vary the frequency, and hence the spindle speed. The inverter also maintains torque right down to fairly low revs making the whole set-up very usable.

By the way, the motor spec is 240v, and that is what Warco ordered for me.

Roger

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Posted by Roger Vane on 17/10/2012 18:36:47:

Hi Chris

You don't need a 3 phase supply to the workshop – the inverter does the conversion from single phase to three phase for you and allows you to vary the frequency, and hence the spindle speed. The inverter also maintains torque right down to fairly low revs making the whole set-up very usable.

By the way, the motor spec is 240v, and that is what Warco ordered for me.

Roger

Ah I see, I thought you meant the other way around Dooh

What was the cost of the inverter, do you recall ?

 

 

 

Edited By chris j on 17/10/2012 18:43:40

[Roger VaneParticipant @rogervane67137]

Hi Chris

Just had a look at my 'budget' for the job – think that the cost of the inverter, control station with extra cable, carriage and VAT (15% at the time) was £283 although that was about 3 years ago – if I had added in the cost of replacing the motor it would have been considerably more.

A quick call to John at Newton Tesla would confirm present costs and I'm sure that he will send you an information pack. (By the way, just for the sake of fairness there are other suppliers of this kit – adverts in ME / MEW).

You might also like to check that Warco can still offer an R8 / 3 ph machine to special order if you are going for an imperial machine.

Roger

[Brian BoltonParticipant @brianbolton62590]

I have a Warco vmc milling machine. Am using an er32 collet system. as there is no spindle lock it is difficult to get the collet tight enough. Any ideas?

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Just a thought for future purchasers, if you are going to fit DROs to your machine, it is completely irrelevant whether it is IMP or Metric, as you will be able to convert from one to t'other at the press of a button. Looking at handles will become a thing of the past and i doubt that many will look back with misty eyes.

chriStephens

[Roger VaneParticipant @rogervane67137]

Hi Chris S

Agreed and I nearly mentioned that – except for the quill downfeed handle and downfeed stop scale for the quill on the VMC. These would be graduated in metric or imperial. Depends on how important the units are to you.

Roger

[Brian O’ConnorParticipant @brianoconnor49474]

Posted by Brian Bolton on 17/10/2012 19:27:19:

I have a Warco vmc milling machine. Am using an er32 collet system. as there is no spindle lock it is difficult to get the collet tight enough. Any ideas?

Hi Brian,

You can use a 28mm spanner on the spindle flats to tighten the collet holder. I managed to find an old imperial spanner that was almost the right size and ground the jaws to fit.

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

It would seem that the VMC is popular, at least I hope so as I went to the Midlands Show today and bought one. I got the M8 Metric with a XY DRO.

I did ask for a Z too but the guy talked me out of it and said there were plenty of cheper ones that would do the job for a fraction on the cost. ( an honest salesman !! ). I got the big tray, suds pump and a longitudinal feed motor to be going on with.

[Roger VaneParticipant @rogervane67137]

Hi chris j

Congratulations on your purchase of a VMC – hope that you enjoy many happy hours using it.

Sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, but I would be concerned about the lack of Z-axis readout and fear that you may come to regret that decision fairly early on. Admittedly the Z-axis is probably the least frequently 'moved', but moved it will be. Also, remember that it's you using the machine over many years and not the salesman.

A good compromise might be to buy the 3-axis console even though you are only fitting scales to X and Y at this stage. Looking at the Warco website the price difference between a 2-axis console and a 3-axis console is only £54, which is very much cheaper than replacing the console to upgrade to 3-axis. Might be worth considering as a 'future-proofing' exercise.

Whatever you decide – good luck and enjoy your machine.

Roger

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