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123 Blocks

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  • #606526
    Vic
    Participant
      @vic

      Just seen this video, may be of help to others?

      **LINK**

      Hardware:

      **LINK**

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      #20750
      Vic
      Participant
        @vic
        #606581
        Dr. MC Black
        Participant
          @dr-mcblack73214

          I have written to ask if there's a UNITED KINGDOM distributor and await a response.

          MCB

          #606591
          Martin Connelly
          Participant
            @martinconnelly55370

            As he said, it is not too hard to make your own.

            Martin C

            I think I recall a YouTube video on this subject.

            Edited By Martin Connelly on 20/07/2022 10:07:22

            #606594
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Just put "dowel nuts" into google and you will find loads if you can't make your own. Also better choice of threads as the ones in the hardware kit are likley to be UNC.

              Or contrary to what he says you don't need to spend a fortune to get blocks that will screw together, the ARC ones are correctly drilled and tapped

              #606597
              Andrew Johnston
              Participant
                @andrewjohnston13878

                I gave mine away as I never used them. To be fair I have a selection of accurate parallels made by the father of a friend who was a toolmaker.

                Andrew

                #606603
                Henry Brown
                Participant
                  @henrybrown95529

                  I've never felt the need to make or acquire a set yet, nice to have but a good selection of accurate parallels are far more useful to me…

                  #606604
                  Dr. MC Black
                  Participant
                    @dr-mcblack73214

                    The company's web site (which doesn't work on my computer so I had to resort to my iPad) states that the threads of the dowel nuts are 5/16 8 – 32

                    Screwfix sell Dowel nuts very reasonably (their cost for 50 is around the same as B&Q's price for five!

                    The Screwfix nuts are 10mm in diameter so they probably would NOT fit in Arc's blocks.

                    .

                    #606608
                    John Haine
                    Participant
                      @johnhaine32865

                      M5 dowel nuts are 8mm diameter. Next time I'm in my favourite fastener supplier I'll see if they stock them.

                      #606614
                      Nicholas Farr
                      Participant
                        @nicholasfarr14254

                        Hi, I made these January 2017, I had never seen or heard of them before, but needed to fix a Stevenson's block to an imperial one, so just used a bit of BMS, used a transfer punch in the holes and drilled and tapped them for M5 threaded rod. Although I hadn't thought of making blank dowels to allow socket head set bolts to be used, I didn't need to for my application.

                        threaded dowels.jpg

                        This is the use I did them for.

                        config#1.jpg

                        Regards Nick.

                        #606615
                        Greensands
                        Participant
                          @greensands

                          I have two pairs of 123 blocks in my stock which I have never had much use for largely beacuse 1) they are not obviously 1-2-3 by design (metric or imperial), 2) they only have holes drilled through from the front face and not from the edge and 3) None of the through holes are threaded. Do they have any potential use as 1-2-3 blocks?

                          #606618
                          Nicholas Farr
                          Participant
                            @nicholasfarr14254

                            Hi Greensands, the 1-2-3 is the ratio, they don't have to have an exact measurement of 1 2 & 3 in either metric or imperial and they don't have to have any holes in them at all, let alone be threaded, but it does help. I guess your blocks have a use for something all the same though.

                            Regards Nick.

                            Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/07/2022 12:00:01

                            #606623
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb
                              Posted by Dr. MC Black on 20/07/2022 10:46:12:

                               

                              The Screwfix nuts are 10mm in diameter so they probably would NOT fit in Arc's blocks.

                              .

                              You missed the point that ARC's ones are correctly drilled clearance size and tapped not drilled tapping size so bolts screw in without the need for dowel nuts

                              Just buy dowel nuts to fit 8mm OD would be closest to the 5/16" American ones and fit the larger ARC blocks, 6mm OD for the smallest

                              I use mine as parallels and packing a lot as I only have sets of thin parallels. Also 20mm one gets used to set tool height on the CNC as I don't have gauge blocks either. The holes also make them easy to bolt to a faceplate or work when balancing things up for turning.

                              Edited By JasonB on 20/07/2022 12:14:12

                              #606719
                              jimmy b
                              Participant
                                @jimmyb

                                I made my own adapters, both barrel nut type and threaded bush type. All have a variety of threads

                                Having 246, 123 and all of Arc's offerings, i needed to be able to join various size blocks.

                                Only a few hours work, but well worthwhile!

                                Jim

                                #606726
                                Dr. MC Black
                                Participant
                                  @dr-mcblack73214
                                  Posted by JasonB on 20/07/2022 12:12:52:

                                  Posted by Dr. MC Black on 20/07/2022 10:46:12:

                                  The Screwfix nuts are 10mm in diameter so they probably would NOT fit in Arc's blocks.

                                  .

                                  You missed the point that ARC's ones are correctly drilled clearance size and tapped not drilled tapping size so bolts screw in without the need for dowel nuts

                                  With respect, I have NOT missed the point,

                                  I understand what has been written about ARC's blocks being tapped but it seems to me that the HEADS of the bolts used would get in the way and that a fixing below the surface of the blocks would be preferable.

                                  .

                                  #606761
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb

                                    I've not yet found that the heads of cap head screws have gotten in the way so far when I have joined mine together but can see using smaller screws could be handy in which case I'd just cross drill a couple of bits of rod to suit should the need arise

                                    The expensive Starret etc ones all use 3/8" x 16 threads for screws with heads.

                                    #606825
                                    old mart
                                    Participant
                                      @oldmart

                                      I bought 2 sets of the 124 blocks to sit the Tom Senior bed on while milling 1.5mm off the top, and got lucky with the sizes, in fact they are so perfectly matched that I have long since muddled up the pairs, better than 0.0001" the same in all axes. When I got out the older set of 123 blocks, they turned out to be also 124 size, but I have never measured them relative to the other 2 sets. I bought a pair of 246 blocks on ebay and it wasn't till much later when I was having trouble with setting something up that I realised they were parallograms. Sitting them back to back on the surface table, there was room for a 0.025" feeler gauge in the 4" side. Chris got them ground square in all axes.

                                      Edited By old mart on 21/07/2022 20:11:56

                                      #732387
                                      bernard towers
                                      Participant
                                        @bernardtowers37738

                                        Ive had some 123 blocks for sometime now and still cant find a use for them (is it me?), the threaded and plain holes seem to be in the wrong place to be of much use and what use are the plain holes?. I have read about fitting tube nuts and I have some and sleeve nuts which go into the plain holes and allow screws to hold stuff from the other side but still find my enthusiasm for them lacking. If anybody has any good examples for their use the information would be gratefully received.IMG_3596

                                        #732394
                                        Michael Gilligan
                                        Participant
                                          @michaelgilligan61133

                                          Unfortunately, Bernard … the underlying design principle was rather lost when the threads were metricated: Metric standard cap-head screws have different proportions  to Imperial ones.

                                          Not sure if I will be able to find it again [I will look this evening] but there was an old Starrett publication showing their use for metrology set-ups … it only worked with the  Imperial blocks !

                                          MichaelG.

                                          #732426
                                          Michael Gilligan
                                          Participant
                                            @michaelgilligan61133

                                            I beg their pardon … I think it was probably Brown & Sharpe

                                            MichaelG.

                                            .

                                            Edit: __ this is not what I was looking-for, but it touches on the problem

                                            https://youtu.be/e2BpFdXlXNI?feature=shared

                                             

                                            #732434
                                            bernard towers
                                            Participant
                                              @bernardtowers37738

                                              Mine are 123 blocks with 3/8 UNC Threads. Have been playing with them this afternoon and to be honest they are appalling, the long through holes have obviously been drilled from both ends and never the twain shall meet and the short plain holes are miles out of square with the 3ins face. It looks like they are a bin job. They were bought from a well known mod eng supplier.

                                              #732439
                                              Diogenes
                                              Participant
                                                @diogenes

                                                As Michael says, I think the most useful aspects of the original idea were lost in translation..

                                                ..but I use mine a bit, because they are (more-or-less) ‘true’ and matched at a known size they mainly fulfil the roles of a cylinder square / parallel / a kind of ‘two-part’ V block, a Vee block for tapered things, an adjustable angle gauge that doesn’t fall over as soon as you let go of it..

                                                Occasionally they are a handy way of allowing measurement of something awkward.

                                                They are definitely the kind of things that get a lot more use if you leave them out, next to the mill or on the bench..

                                                Rick Sparber has (had?) a pair of the original design (so you can see what you are missing) and some comments / uses for them..

                                                #732447
                                                JasonB
                                                Moderator
                                                  @jasonb

                                                  I use mine a lot but seldom screw them together so would not want to bin any of mine even if the holes were wonky. This week I have.

                                                  Used two 20-40-80 block stood to give me 100mm and then used my usual 10-20-40 block to set the height of various cutters and drill bits on the CNC relative to the 98mm ctr height of the rotary table, just enter +22mm off the 100mm stack rather than the usual 20mm off the top of the work.

                                                  Used two 1-2-3 blocks to pack a chuck that had 3 studs sticking out the back up off the mill table so it could be clamped down.

                                                  Used two 10-20-40 blocks to pack up some work that had a spigot sticking out the bottom, again so it could be clamped down to the mill table

                                                  Use two as paperweights to support a background for a photo

                                                  Used another to prop my phone up to video a bit of filing in the lathe.

                                                   

                                                  And there is still Sunday to go.

                                                   

                                                  #732453
                                                  Michael Gilligan
                                                  Participant
                                                    @michaelgilligan61133

                                                    In the absence of the document I was hoping to find … this is probably the best overview:

                                                    https://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/machine-shop/auxiliary-tools/setup-blocks/index.html

                                                     

                                                    Some of the quoted accuracies might upset Bernard [or his supplier] though !

                                                    MichaelG.

                                                    #732469
                                                    KEITH BEAUMONT
                                                    Participant
                                                      @keithbeaumont45476

                                                      Game, Set and Match to Jason!!

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