Idiots guide to brass

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Idiots guide to brass

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  • #191112
    Izack Madd
    Participant
      @izackmadd89335

      Hi folks,

      Not only is it that time again but it's double as its bank holiday. So for those who don't know me don't worry you'll soon recover. For those who do. When you've stopped groaning. IM BACK…

      Right down to business. I've got some basic brass tube 2mm OD and 0.3mm wall thickness. Now please remember apart from a lot of sharp knives and a junior hacksaw. I'm a wood top so have less than nothing in the line of engineering skills.

      What I need to do is repeatedly, about 700 times, cut slices of said tube 0.5-1mm long. Now I know I can cut said tube with a sharp knife. So it's not too hard it's the accuracy I'm struggling with and I'm sure there is a safer way than a big swing with a meat cleaver. especially when I'm holding the tube. I still want to be able to count to ten without rummaging around in the sawdust.

      So how can I cut this tube please?

      In case your wondering what I'm up to now. I've given up on the distilling. It was all just hot air. And I'm now all at sea. I'm trying to make some pulley blocks. Enough to to rig the HMS Victory and about 8 other ships including three Cutty Sarks. And as the Victory requires around 700. Never mind the rest. I'd like a nice simple way of making them. Emphasis on SIMPLE please.

      Hope you are all well since my last visit no lost limbs or nervous breakdowns. That's my job, to give them and have them…

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      #23906
      Izack Madd
      Participant
        @izackmadd89335

        I need a simple 101 in cutting small brass tube accurate

        #191116
        Johnboy25
        Participant
          @johnboy25

           

          Hi… Can't you borrow a small clock or watch makers lathe? That's the only way I would consider making that many. Or…. What about finding someone with a Boxford TCL CNC joby… That would certainly do the trick without losing your sanity!

          John

          #191118
          pgk pgk
          Participant
            @pgkpgk17461

            First thought..I wonder if one could stiffen the inside with say an aluminium or plastic rod and then use a guillotine with a stop for the length. The guillotine would need a base board, metal strip edge and then a heavy blade (good kitchen knife or cleaver hinged at one end. If you can find one of those cleavers with a hole at the blade end for a hinging bolt… You then need two stops… one for length and one to stop the tube rolling away from the blade as you cut.

            Second thought… If you're happy enough doing the cutting with a knife then make up a jig .. the rod resting between two closely spaced pairs of bearings.. it'll sit in the angle between a pair of bearings and be able to rotate.. and bridged across from the other pair gives you a gap to cut into. A raised block and stop at one end for the length and a guide for the knife. You should be able to build something robust enough out of timber for thin tube like this. Rolling the tube under the knife should give a clean straight cut??

            Third thought.. hunt around for tiny brass spacers in that size and buy a bundle. It's the sort of thing that is used in small races to space the id of bearings so may be worth a google search.

            #191119
            jason udall
            Participant
              @jasonudall57142

              2mm od 0.3 mm wall.

              I would try Stanley knife blade and “roll” the tube back and forth on block of wood with blade.

              Now to do this 700 times.
              Well how controlled as apposed to accurate do you want the “tube lets “?
              If say a Stanley knife blade ( thickness) would suffice as length..stack two or more blades and using the blades to space the blades make block up..roll away and off you go..if two blades worth ( or other length) required then suitable packing will work…
              I did this for 8 at a time 5 mm lengths in 1 mm od 0.3 mm id copper. .around 500 pieces…

              #191123
              Izack Madd
              Participant
                @izackmadd89335
                Posted by Johnboy25 on 24/05/2015 23:03:20:

                Â

                Hi… Can't you borrow a small clock or watch makers lathe? That's the only way I would consider making that many. Or…. What about finding someone with a Boxford TCL CNC joby… That would certainly do the trick without losing your sanity!

                John

                Too late on the sanity side I'm glad. But my engineering contacts stop at the number zero so looney tunes here I come sorry already am 😛

                #191124
                norman valentine
                Participant
                  @normanvalentine78682

                  If you are building a ship model why do you need to make brass washers? Wooden blocks work perfectly well.1375814085_1932_ft4006_cimg2927_.jpg

                  #191126
                  Izack Madd
                  Participant
                    @izackmadd89335
                    Posted by pgk pgk on 24/05/2015 23:28:18:

                    First thought..I wonder if one could stiffen the inside with say an aluminium or plastic rod and then use a guillotine with a stop for the length. The guillotine would need a base board, metal strip edge and then a heavy blade (good kitchen knife or cleaver hinged at one end. If you can find one of those cleavers with a hole at the blade end for a hinging bolt… You then need two stops… one for length and one to stop the tube rolling away from the blade as you cut.

                    Second thought… If you're happy enough doing the cutting with a knife then make up a jig .. the rod resting between two closely spaced pairs of bearings.. it'll sit in the angle between a pair of bearings and be able to rotate.. and bridged across from the other pair gives you a gap to cut into. A raised block and stop at one end for the length and a guide for the knife. You should be able to build something robust enough out of timber for thin tube like this. Rolling the tube under the knife should give a clean straight cut??

                    Third thought.. hunt around for tiny brass spacers in that size and buy a bundle. It's the sort of thing that is used in small races to space the id of bearings so may be worth a google search.

                    Thanks for that. Not too sure about the first as it sounds way too safe . But the third is doable even if I used wooden dowel on marbles to create the bearings. And I'll definitely look into the third as its a route I haven't realised existed. That's why I'm here if in doubt ask the best. And I'm the biggest doubt…

                    #191127
                    Izack Madd
                    Participant
                      @izackmadd89335
                      Posted by jason udall on 24/05/2015 23:31:48:
                      2mm od 0.3 mm wall.

                      I would try Stanley knife blade and "roll" the tube back and forth on block of wood with blade.

                      Now to do this 700 times.
                      Well how controlled as apposed to accurate do you want the "tube lets "?
                      If say a Stanley knife blade ( thickness) would suffice as length..stack two or more blades and using the blades to space the blades make block up..roll away and off you go..if two blades worth ( or other length) required then suitable packing will work…
                      I did this for 8 at a time 5 mm lengths in 1 mm od 0.3 mm id copper. .around 500 pieces…

                      Sounds worth a try thanks.

                      #191128
                      Izack Madd
                      Participant
                        @izackmadd89335
                        Posted by norman valentine on 24/05/2015 23:47:10:

                        If you are building a ship model why do you need to make brass washers? Wooden blocks work perfectly well.1375814085_1932_ft4006_cimg2927_.jpg

                        The only problem is inside the wooden blocks needs round wheels. And at this size wood just crumbles it's all about scale. While accuracy would be great I can't make wood molecules any smaller. So I've got to choose another product. Enter the next thing they used brass. And as its self lubricating if it's cheap enough because of the lead content which because of the structure of brass sits on the surface so giving it that smoot slimy feel. Wait that's an engineering fact. Oh my word your rubbing of on me quick pass me a lump of wood and perhaps it'll wear off…

                        #191130
                        Izack Madd
                        Participant
                          @izackmadd89335

                          Posted by Izack Madd on 24/05/2015 23:55:52:

                          Posted by norman valentine on 24/05/2015 23:47:10:

                          If you are building a ship model why do you need to make brass washers? Wooden blocks work perfectly well.1375814085_1932_ft4006_cimg2927_.jpg

                          The only problem is inside the wooden blocks needs round wheels. And at this size wood just crumbles it's all about scale. While accuracy would be great I can't make wood molecules any smaller. So I've got to choose another product. Enter the next thing they used brass. And as its self lubricating if it's cheap enough because of the lead content which because of the structure of brass sits on the surface so giving it that smoot slimy feel. Wait that's an engineering fact. Oh my word your rubbing of on me quick pass me a lump of wood and perhaps it'll wear off…

                          Also last time I tried working with pignut vitea I spent more time sharpening the tools than working with them as its nearly like planning steel. And that's what was in the original blocks so no thanks.

                          #191131
                          norman valentine
                          Participant
                            @normanvalentine78682

                            But surely on a model the blocks don't actually need to work? They just need to look right.

                            #191138
                            Vic
                            Participant
                              @vic

                              I can't help but pop over to: http://modelshipworld.com and see how they do it over there. wink

                              #191140
                              John Olsen
                              Participant
                                @johnolsen79199

                                The people that sell kitsets for wooden boats will also sell you little bags containing lots of little blocks, in different sizes too. They don't have actual sheaves in them but if this is a glass case model that should not matter.

                                John

                                #191148
                                norman valentine
                                Participant
                                  @normanvalentine78682

                                  Wolfram zu Mondfeld in his book "Historic Ship Models" shows how to make blocks from wood, boxwood is a good material. It doesn't crumble. But I have to confess that I didn't make the blocks in my model shown above, I bought them.

                                  #191153
                                  Les Jones 1
                                  Participant
                                    @lesjones1

                                    A possible solution might be to make a small guillotine. The blades would each have a 2mm hole in them and and be arranged to slide past each other. You could either have another hole in the plates as a pivot point or arrange for them to slide past each to be used in an arbor press. I have never tried this but it might work. You could add pgk's idea of putting plastic or aluminium rod through the tube while cutting it.

                                    Les.

                                    Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/05/2015 09:11:02

                                    #191155
                                    jason udall
                                    Participant
                                      @jasonudall57142

                                      The roll under knife blade..gives an end like that produced by plumbers pipe cutter..and it take only a few strokes..
                                      Quick .clean.and I found it easy..
                                      If you make a blade , even if not multiple blades but just an end stop you can part off in 5-10 s.. so 360 to the hour…..

                                      Edited By jason udall on 25/05/2015 09:25:58

                                      #191159
                                      Vic
                                      Participant
                                        @vic
                                        #191161
                                        daveb
                                        Participant
                                          @daveb17630

                                          Wooden jig, Dremel with circular saw.

                                          #191166
                                          Neil Wyatt
                                          Moderator
                                            @neilwyatt

                                            > Wooden jig, Dremel with circular saw.

                                            What the man says

                                            I have a lovely little tube-cutting jig for use with a razor saw on test here from Expo, including a neat end-stop. I would recommend it except that you will get through a fair number of razor saw blades doing 700 and your hands will go numb.

                                            Build a dremel into a temporary support so you can slide the tube past a cutting disk, you will get through cutting disks but may keep a vestige of your sanity.

                                            Neil

                                            #191170
                                            Izack Madd
                                            Participant
                                              @izackmadd89335
                                              Posted by norman valentine on 25/05/2015 00:02:29:

                                              But surely on a model the blocks don't actually need to work? They just need to look right.

                                              They don't have to work but from rigging a 1/350 scale Cutty Sark. I realise that they still do the same job and as such all have to be adjusted until everything's just right. While this is possible with plastic or solid wood blocks there is a tendency for the lines to snag on the uneven surface. So creating tight spots which suddenly slip meaning all the other lines are out of whack. And the plastic blocks tend to snap at the becket causing even more headaches. So apart from the greater authenticity, it's a big help rigging the standing lines.

                                              #191172
                                              Izack Madd
                                              Participant
                                                @izackmadd89335
                                                Posted by Vic on 25/05/2015 03:25:12:

                                                I can't help but pop over to: http://modelshipworld.com and see how they do it over there. wink

                                                While there look out for me and "Nannie" and her tail….😜👍

                                                #191173
                                                Izack Madd
                                                Participant
                                                  @izackmadd89335
                                                  Posted by John Olsen on 25/05/2015 06:08:05:

                                                  The people that sell kitsets for wooden boats will also sell you little bags containing lots of little blocks, in different sizes too. They don't have actual sheaves in them but if this is a glass case model that should not matter.

                                                  John

                                                  These are just drilled blocks of wood so still suffer from being ugly as hell out of scale and tend to snag the lines just at the wrong time. Only to release them again when you think it's all done

                                                  #191174
                                                  Izack Madd
                                                  Participant
                                                    @izackmadd89335
                                                    Posted by jason udall on 25/05/2015 09:24:32:
                                                    The roll under knife blade..gives an end like that produced by plumbers pipe cutter..and it take only a few strokes..
                                                    Quick .clean.and I found it easy..
                                                    If you make a blade , even if not multiple blades but just an end stop you can part off in 5-10 s.. so 360 to the hour…..

                                                    Edited By jason udall on 25/05/2015 09:25:58

                                                    This is basically what I've done for the test model it's the repeatability that I'm concerned about.

                                                    #191175
                                                    Izack Madd
                                                    Participant
                                                      @izackmadd89335

                                                      Lots of great ideas for me to try which is what.

                                                      Thanks a million well 700 plus…

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