Ceramic burners and rechargeable tanks

This topic has 12 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 4 December 2014 at 10:29 by martin perman 1.

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30 November 2014 at 17:45 #171106
Tony Martyr
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@tonymartyr14488
I've just (successfully) pressure tested a 4" vertical fire-tube boiler that is a variant of a rather standard design. I intend to fire it with a 'BIX 002 Ceramic 2.625" burner' – and it is intended to run a triple expansion condensing engine.

Having never used such a burner before I don't know how to judge which of the 3 Jet sizes (8, 12, 16) to use – I have assumed rising number = rising gas consumption (?)

I also want to fit the layout with a rechargeable gas tank but I can't find a YouTube or written description that tells me with what, how and from what they are charged.

Any advice very welcome

Tony
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30 November 2014 at 17:45 #23603
Tony Martyr
Participant
@tonymartyr14488
30 November 2014 at 20:42 #171125
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
You fit the filler nozzle to a camping gaz container which has a rather unusual thread I can't remember (the older style short fat ones not the 8 inch long ones that are common now). Look around 16mm model railway websites and forums and the modelboatmayhem forum for more details.

The nozzle mates with the horribly expensive filler valve. To fill you hold the canister upsidedown so itis liquid gas that goes out and have to vent the receiving tank to let it in so not while still alight. Try to size the tank so it runs out before the water as a gas flame is hot enough to distort an empty boiler if not actually melt silver solder.

Copied the following out of the Pollyengineering catalogue page 39

Filler nozzles, valves, jets, etc

Nozzles for refillable gas container (fits screw top canisters); gas canister valve, gas filler valves (Ronson

type), gas jets,

Filler Nozzle for refillable gas

container fits screw top canisters £12.90

Gas Canister Valve £19.60

Gas filler valves, Ronson type £5.10

Gas jets Sizes 5, 10, 15 £3.60
30 November 2014 at 20:52 #171126
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
7/16" x 28tpi should be the right thread.

Also playing in public the tank needs testing to 333psi I think.

J
2 December 2014 at 08:19 #171258
michael howarth 1
Participant
@michaelhowarth1
I've just been reading the motoring pages in the weekend Telegraph and in particular an article on the Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell motor car. The hydrogen fuel tanks, apparently charged to a pressure of 10,000 psi, are situated under the back seats and they (the fuel tanks) are made of carbon reinforced plastic. Notwithstanding the need for safety in all things I wonder what some of the prophets of doom that pervade the ME world would have to say about firing up a gas fired model with plastic gas tanks? The Mirai has a claimed top speed of 111mph which I would expect to be halved if certain model engineering organisations designed the fuel tanks.

Mick
2 December 2014 at 11:38 #171273
FMES
Participant
@fmes
Posted by Bogstandard2 on 02/12/2014 11:23:38:

Say one of those fuel cells was to rupture and cause a big hole in the ground, and vapourising a couple of dozen souls, would your car insurance cover it, or would you be left with a huge claims bill for the rest of your natural life?

I'd guess you'd possibly be one of the couple of dozen souls and therefore not liable?
2 December 2014 at 13:34 #171279
michael howarth 1
Participant
@michaelhowarth1
John….my post was not a criticism of anything that you wrote and I apologise if it has come over that way. I appreciate that you were iterating the standards that we are obliged to conform with and it is with those who make some of the rules and some of those who are involved in enforcing them that I was having a little dig at. I wonder whether those hydrogen tanks are required to undergo the same rigorous annual testing regime as a Mamod? I haven't done the sums but it might be interesting to work out what the specs would be for a hydrogen fuel tank for a Mamod according to our testing regimes.

Mick
2 December 2014 at 13:53 #171281
David Jupp
Participant
@davidjupp51506
Just out of interest, I've worked with 5000 psi Hydrogen tanks for vehicles – the 10000 psi ones are taking longer than expected to become common.

The standards the fibre reinforced tanks are designed and tested to are quite impressive. Amongst other things prototype tanks are tested to withstand impact from a high velocity rifle round, they have to vent safely in the event of a surrounding fire. Overall probably far safer than petrol tanks in conventional cars.

And no – typically the hydrogen tanks aren't required to undergo annual testing (apart from a visual overview for exterior damage) – BUT they do have a 'do not use after' date, and a maximum number of allowed fill cycles. They also have a moderately large design factor when compared to metallic vessels.

Note this post is rather off topic and isn't intended to criticise anyone.

Edited By David Jupp on 02/12/2014 14:21:14
2 December 2014 at 17:42 #171303
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
I remember the <unprintable>s who drove a car full of LPG cylinders into the front of Glasgow airport.

A better demonstration of excellent design for safety couldn't be asked for, as the cylinders repeatedly vented rather than exploding.

Neil
3 December 2014 at 21:23 #171422
Tony Martyr
Participant
@tonymartyr14488
Thanks to all

It was all interesting, even the hydrogen excursion was interesting since I was involved in the testing of the hydrogen cell bus units in Vancouver a few years ago – in the case of a gas leak we vented the roof to atmosphere which was OK on warm dry days.

I have finally got a list of the ceramic burner I need plus its tubes and gas cylinder – I will stick with the disposable cylinder unit I get the whole system working and then consider buying at certified re-chargable unit.

The reason that I find on-line research difficult is that I live in rural Shropshire where broadband is either absent or slow and mobile phones don't work – adverts for 4G just make us angry when we have ZeroG.

However a new green cabinet has been installed outside our local telephone exchange recently and we are hoping soon to join the 20th if not the 21st century!
3 December 2014 at 21:59 #171425
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
> I live in rural Shropshire where broadband is either absent or slow

Hmpph!

I'm on the outskirts of Burton upon Trent. 'urban fringe'

Having waited a year and a half for our exchange to come up as 'fibre available' December 2014, and to start accepting orders a week ago, I found I couldn't order an upgrade – apparently our cabinet doesn't serve enough premises problem is that instead of being wired into nearby Branston, we're wired into rural Barton under Needwood, and we're 3 miles from the exchange and stuck with 2.5 megabits per second for ever it seems – great for downloading proofs of MEW!

And don't talk about my mobile signal…

Neil
4 December 2014 at 09:47 #171461
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
well off topic but maybe some help- We live in rural Scotland, like Tony the 3G adverts make us angry. Bt still charges full wack even tho' we can't get broadband. The engineer said he was surprised we could get a phone signal. 7 miles from exchange as the crow flies, main trouble is all the new houses, all with computers, taking the power. Solution is satelite broadband, was about £200 for hardware and £25 a month. Works very well. Have to go to the pub for wi-fi, big problem.
4 December 2014 at 10:29 #171471
martin perman 1
Participant
@martinperman1
My wife and I live in a village approx five miles from Bedford, we have reasonable Broadband, most of the time but its not that fast, via the phone line but fibre optics is a no no, BT say we may get it by 2016/17. As soon as you move away from towns the installation of projects becomes how long is a piece of string.

Martin P
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