Recommendations for first lathe

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

I hesitate to be involved in this as everyone has so many different opinions but would just point out there is a decent looking ML10 over on the Homeworkshop website at what looks to me at any rate a reasonable price, and with enough tooling to make a start.

Much better than the hideous Grayson lathe that I started out with at any rate!

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Depending on the OP’s location, I know of a nice ML10 with cabinet that’s available near me on the Fylde coast. Also a not quite so nice, but perfectly serviceable ML7 on a fabricated stand – my first lathe, since replaced by a Boxford.

Rob

[cedric 1Participant @cedric]

If you want to get an idea of Chinese machine quality and after sales service, do a search of this site for “Warco” and read the many threads posted by owners of those machines.

[southernchapParticipant @southernchap]

I have had nothing but good (relative to the price; CF the cost of a new Myford lathe) products, and great support from Warco.

I suspect those who report on here a lack of “catching flies” (possibly including yourself), are maybe using more vinegar than honey in their interactions with Warco.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

If Daniel does want something as small as a Cowells, consider joining the Facebook group, where there is one up for sale at the moment

https://www.facebook.com/groups/980162948691709/posts/33287518570862728/

Bill

[cedric 1]

On cedric 1 Said:

If you want to get an idea of Chinese machine quality and after sales service, do a search of this site for “Warco” and read the many threads posted by owners of those machines.

Have you done that and what was the result?   The hit list is 382 pages long indicating a popular supplier.  My quick spot check doesn’t suggest many quality problems, though they certainly happen.

Searching for Myford gets an 840 page list, and a spot check reveals many problems, mostly age related wear and tear.  Exactly what’s   expected of ageing machines.  What to do about worn beds, bearings, lead-screws, half-nuts, and clutches.  Sorting out broken bull wheels, stuck chucks, duff motors, bed twist, and lubrication problems.  Replacing belts, where to get change wheels, especially 127 teeth, and how to fit 3-phase and QCTP.  Electrical problems especially capacitors, centrifugal switches and Dewhursts. People worrying about paint colour.   Suggests condition is far more important than quality, whatever that is!

I haven’t done a full search for everything on lathes.co.uk:

Sherline: 42 pages,

Taig:  26 pages

Seig: 28 pages

Boxford:  214 pages

Cowells: 39 pages

Colchester: 116 pages

Proxxon: 36 pages

Unimat: 62 pages

Schlaubin: 1 page

Hardinge: 26 pages

Adept: 44 pages

Flexispeed: 17 pages

Amadeal:  45 page

Be interesting to wade through them all to find what their relative shortcomings are based on member experience.  A lot of hard work when it can be simplified for beginners:

• When buying second-hand tools the marque matters much less than the condition.  The make of a machine tool does not protect it from abuse, wear and tear, damp, or age.  These all depend on history, not the original build quality.  The only way to assess condition is to check the machine out physically, which is not easy for beginners to do.     It’s the product that assures the brand, not the other way round.   Notions of “quality” do not protect your money!  A scrap Rolls Royce is still only scrap.
• Buying new means condition is assured.  If a new tool is delivered damaged, parts are missing, or the thing is wonky, the purchasers dosh is protected by consumer law, the warranty, and the sellers desire to maintain his reputation.   Difficult to go wrong buying new unless buying “too cheap” from a disreputable vendor, especially one outside the British consumer protection umbrella. But people do buy direct, and get away with it – the quality is “good enough”.

My experience with a Chinese workshop is that the tools are fit for purpose and value for money.  Still going strong after 11 years.  Two small problems with the lathe, both easily fixed by minor fettling, and the milling machine was OK straight off the pallet.   The band-saw looked dreadful and performed badly, but was fixed by obvious minor fettling in an afternoon, since when it just works.  The problem was an indifferent build, not difficult to put right, and very affordable.

My mini-lathe had several shortcomings, but nowhere near as bad as the critics suggested.  Performed well once I got used to it and made a few minor improvements.  Impossible I think to tell the difference between parts made on it and the same parts made on a much more expensive machine.   True the expensive machine should be easier to drive and produce results faster, but a hobbyist might not need either. I don’t.

Quality is only worth having if it delivers value and is affordable.   As an abstract concept it’s a red-herring.   And firms offering quality goods that no-one buys go straight down the toilet.  The price has to be right.

Dave

[cedric 1Participant @cedric]

I didn’t suggest whether Warco gear was good or bad, merely that looking at past threads on such would give some insight into actual owners experiences.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Looking at some second hand machine tool dealers, Home & Workshop, Triona and G&M Tools, Chinese lathes just don’t feature in their stock lists. There are plenty of Myfords, quite a few Boxfords, Colchesters and some exotica such as Lorch. There is the odd scattering of model steam locos so they are buying from model engineers.

The question is why? Are they just unable to sell Chinese lathes, are the warrenty risks too high, or what?

JA

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi JA, maybe it’s because the far eastern machines are a better value for the money and people don’t want to give them up. (smiley)

Regards Nick.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Or they get their stock from model engineers who have passed so likely to be Old school rather than younger blood that is buying the import machines and still about to get good use from them.

Though having said that I see Warco and Clarke lathes listed on Home & Workshop infact the Warco is marked as sold, the Jet they also have listed comesout the same factor as Warco but painted a different colour.😉

As for Triona I would hardly expect a company that has a website address of Myford-lathes.com to get many hits by people searching for a second hand import machine so not worth them stocking them.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Maybe the first generation that bought Chinese haven’t got to the point where their workshops are scattered to the winds yet? And/or they are more comfortable selling through eBay rather than seeing the 100% markup that some s/h tool dealers apply.  If they weren’t selling new after at least 20 years availability then stockists such as Warco/Amadeal/Axminster etc wouldn’t list them.  My first lathe was a Hobbymat (E German, too small for what i then wanted to do and idiosyncratic), Romanian (From Warco, a dog but they were helpful when the H/S bearings were clearly no good), now a Myford S7 for ~20 years.  But in retrospect an equivalent sized Chinese lathe would have been a better buy.  Could have spent the difference on a Cowells CW for small work!

[achParticipant @ach]

Wouldnt recommend an ender 3 to be honest, unless it was really cheap (E.g £30). Elegoo seem to sell a core xy machine which was on sale for £200, the bamboo A1 (no ams) is good too for cheap.

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