My new computer

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 03/05/2021 09:25:14:

It may be of interest to know that these two laptops came with Windows 10 Home so the first thing was to remove Windows and install Linux. However, with them being new machines I thought that for possibly warranty reasons I had better create a re-installation copy of Windows before deleting it, something that the operating instructions recommend anyway. And that was where the "fun" started.

As soon as I powered up the laptop, I was straight into Windows setup which has to be completed before I can create the re-installation copy. Which is fair enough, but what is NOT acceptable was the requirement to put in my date of birth, my telephone number, an email address, and then to enter a code sent to the telephone number, and to have to accept an impossibly long set of rules & conditions. In contrast. Linux asks for my name AND NOTHING ELSE.

I did give a false DOB, and a false telephone number, and a redundant email address supplied by TalkTalk (who, by the way have threatened to delete that address unless I sign up for one of their expensive options), and so far I have received two emails from Microsoft about my Microsoft Account, which I don't want anyway, being ready for me.

You bought a laptop with Windows 10 on it. As part of the setting up of Windows 10 you have to activate it which normally needs information from you including DOB for age related content. You are upset and fraudulently tried to activate it with incorrect information.

You want to keep Windows 10 as a future option, but appear to be unwilling to do what the company expects any user to do.

Why does Linux not expect this – because it is open source and not proprietary.

Either just wipe the computer, forget Windows and install your software of choice or do what everyone else has to do and install Windows 10 as the people who licence it to you (note they do not sell it) ask you to do.

The basic deal when acquiring anything is that a contract is made with conditions binding on both parties and the Microsoft ones, even if you are unhappy with them, are part of the deal.

You don't have to buy Windows, you don't have to use Talk Talk – but if you wish to do so there are strings attached which are rarely negotiable

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Fine there are many people who seem happy with surveillance capitalism – testing for age related products should be done at point of attempted purchase (eg by bank card) not up front that is purely for marketing purposes – likewise requiring a name etc – it will be all too easy to move this surveillance to more nasty applications eg China and Russia’s attempt to control political discussion – the USA with its medical insurance has been reputed to use info gained from such surveillance to restrict insurance.
Personally I just remove the harddrive and start with a newly wiped drive for a linux install.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Frances IoM on 03/05/2021 10:27:44:

Personally I just remove the harddrive and start with a newly wiped drive for a linux install.

Exactly what I would do

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 03/05/2021 10:31:40

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 03/05/2021 10:17:30:

You don't have to buy Windows, you don't have to use Talk Talk – but if you wish to do so there are strings attached which are rarely negotiable

It's difficult not to buy Windows if you are buying a new computer. Very few vendors sell them without it so you pay for it even if you don't want it.

Russell

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 03/05/2021 10:35:27:

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 03/05/2021 10:17:30:

You don't have to buy Windows, you don't have to use Talk Talk – but if you wish to do so there are strings attached which are rarely negotiable

It's difficult not to buy Windows if you are buying a new computer. Very few vendors sell them without it so you pay for it even if you don't want it.

Russell

Fair comment Russell – perhaps 'You don't need to use Windows' would have been a better way of putting it

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I fail to see how using an operating system (Windows 10) has anything to do with age related content. An OS is required to make the machine work. Any age related content is additional to the OS, for without the OS, one cannot access anything.

Of course I will give false information. Since I am not legally required to use their OS, and am only doing what I have done in case of a warranty problem whereby the machine has to go back to the supplier. And that is the only, repeat only, reason that I have retained W10 capability.

When all said and done, suppose this was my 14 year old grandaughter. Is there anything in the OS and the supplied programs that she should not be able to see? If there is, then I suggest that Microsoft is at fault in allowing such stuff to be available. And what's to stop her using any old DOB? Absolutely nothing.

I might point out that W10 has been activated – with incorrect, fraudulent if you like, information. And I don't care. If they, or anyone else doesn't like it, tough, tough, tough. If you wish to allow these American firms to know all about you, that's your choice, just don't expect me to comply. Frankly, as far as I am concerned, the more I see of the American way of life, the more I realise just how bad it it actually is. And yes, I will go out of my way to avoid them.

As regards Talk Talk. I never signed up to them in the first place: the email address was originally by an outfit called lineone.net which eventually became, taken overby perhaps, Tiscali, which in turn appears to have been taken over by Talk Talk. Regardless of what they, or anyone else thinks I simply don't care about it, and haven't used it for a long time, years in fact. Hence if Talk Talk do decide to cut me off, I won't be bothered, and I'll get rid of Microsoft at the same time.

I would also point out that the only laptops that I could easily (note that word "easily&quot find which did not have Windows attached to it were ones by Lenovo, which, if you look back at my original post, I didn't want because of the Chinese connection. Which does rather suggest that I didn't have much choice in the matter.

Thankyou Frances for backing me up.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 03/05/2021 09:25:14:

re Linux etc.

…

It may be of interest to know that these two laptops came with Windows 10 Home so the first thing was to remove Windows and install Linux. However, with them being new machines I thought that for possibly warranty reasons I had better create a re-installation copy of Windows before deleting it, something that the operating instructions recommend anyway. And that was where the "fun" started.

As soon as I powered up the laptop, I was straight into Windows setup which has to be completed before I can create the re-installation copy. Which is fair enough, but what is NOT acceptable was the requirement to put in my date of birth, my telephone number, an email address, and then to enter a code sent to the telephone number, and to have to accept an impossibly long set of rules & conditions. …

…

Regards

Peter G. Shaw

The information is needed only if you set up a Microsoft Account, which provides services in the cloud, and – I agree – they want too much personal information. Unfortunately, each new release of Windows makes it harder to tell the difference between setting-up the operating system in local mode, and accidentally committing to an unwanted Microsoft Cloud Account. I think it's deliberate – Microsoft exploit the fact that most of us, most of the time, take the easy option, and won't dig into alternatives.

Upgrading to Windows 10 (20H2) last week, I noticed Microsoft have confused the issue further. For security reasons I always set up Windows with at least two logins: one with admin privileges, the other, used for ordinary business doesn't. If the ordinary account is penetrated, the amount of damage the intruder can do is limited; he can't take over the whole system. Anyway, setting up the local user on my new computer, I noticed 20H2 pushes hard for this to be a Microsoft cloud Account by defaulting to that option and thoroughly camouflaging the local set-up method. Previously, setting up a local account was the easy default; now it's as if it's hidden in a cellar behind a door marked 'Beware of the Leopard'.

Another negative feature of Windows upgrades is the way they ignore previous security settings, re-enabling disabled services, installing unwanted new services, pushing edge and bing, etc etc. Keeping Windows locked down is hard work because upgrades follow Microsoft's instructions, not mine! Again, this punishes anyone who doesn't have the time or interest to fix their broken privacy.

Like most successful IT companies Microsoft are evolving. They've made money at different times by selling a BASIC Interpreter, then by gradually improving operating systems, plus selling applications to run on their operating systems. Now these markets are almost saturated the company is maintaining profits by switching to cloud services. It's their job to earn money, not to keep grandad happy! Unfortunately the shift involves targetting custom by collecting personal data from all their users. I prefer not to play this game, but its getting ever harder to avoid.

Linux is far less intrusive, more configurable, and considerably more secure, but the downside is it doesn't run state of the art Windows applications, which is often important. I do at least 95% of my computing with Ubuntu, but still keep Windows 10 for Windows-only software like Fusion 360. Also, if I write software, or discuss Arduino etc, it's good to support anyone who prefers Windows rather than insist they go Linux. It's an imperfect world!

In business, always read the small print and remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. Microsoft is a business.

Dave

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Just for the sake of clarity here.

Fusion 360 is not a Windows only application because it also runs on the Mac OS.

Apparently it is available as a web app for the education community as well.

Edited By V8Eng on 03/05/2021 12:46:52

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Maybe it should also be pointed out that running WINE on Linux is 99% transparent to the user – assuming the association is set up (and .exe + .com programs are the usual and set up automatically by WINE) then just clicking these will load and start the program; Neil is however correct in that the bugbear are any special drivers especially for new & specialised applications – commonly used equipment quickly acquires Linux drivers if the generic Linux driver is unsuitable.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Dave/SOD,

You are quite correct, the option to use a local mode when setting up was not so much hidden, as not explained. In fact that was what I used when I realised.

I'm also well aware that Microsoft is a business and exists to make money for its shareholders. I do have some sympathy with them because in their early days illicit copying was rife, but that doesn't make their current practices acceptable. Of course, I don't use state-of-the art programs, the existing programs being satisfactory for my modest use. Fair enough, I may be missing out, but in reality I doubt if I use anything like the full capability of my existing programs so why bother updating just to obtain an additional functionality which I may never use.

Frances,

I quite agree over WINE being transparent to the user. As is DOSemu. As I mentioned, I use a 32bit Windows CAD program via WINE, and a DOS based database via DOSemu. In the CAD instance, I can open any CAD file simply by clicking on it, or, if creating a new file, by clicking an icon in the Panel. The DOS based database is a little different in that I can only open it by clicking on the appropriate icon in the Panel whereupon an 80 column by 50 line window appears and initially shows all the database files available. Selecting whichever file is required then opens that file. Saving data follows normal practice for both file types. To put it bluntly, in effect I use them as if they were native Linux programs.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Neil

I have to agree with you to a point I changed over to Linux around two and half years ago but I still maintain a windows laptop I have a couple of programmes that will not run on Linux and one for which I do not like the Linux alternative. That said I would never go back using a windows based machine I turn on my Linux laptop it starts within seconds I do not have to wait whilst it checks for update and then in a lot of case's have to install something I do not want, in fact my windows laptop as been stripped of it's ability to update so that now starts pretty quickly. My biggest moan with Linux is that I find it power hungry I did have a major problem with my USB WiFi adaptor (the built in one as a broken ariel connection) but I found the advice given me bu the customer service means I now have a better WiFi signal than I did when I was using the built in card .

H

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