Changewheel ID sought please

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

I would be grateful for advice on the change wheels shown in the pic below, and which machine(s) they might fit. I have had them hanging around for a LONG time, so they need to find a new home.

Specs: 20 DP, 14.5 pa (as far as I can see), 3/8" bore, 9/32" width. They mesh nicely with Myford 7 series changewheels.

They all have stamped numbers which bear no relation to their size, so are presumably Part Nos eg

50 Tooth stamped 100, 42 Tooth stamped 119, 33 Tooth stamped 150, 27 Tooth stamped 185, 22 Tooth stamped 227, 17 Tooth stamped 310.

The combination pair is 50/20 teeth and there is a transverse hole in the central boss, whereas the others have a single hole next to the bore.

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

If they look like myford, perhaps posting on the myford forum might get a response?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

They might be early Round Bed Drummond … here are mine:

…. the holes look about right, but I don't think mine carry those numbers.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/01/2017 23:16:35

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

I don't think that they're Drummond gears, the spec. for those is 14dp and have 2 holes – at least all of the ones I have (a LOT) , might be early Myford ML1-4 possibly?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Seem like unusual numbers of teeth for change gears? Maybe they are off something totally different, ie non-lathe?

Yes Drummond are 14DP and 5/8 hole in the middle. I have some gears I think are ML1-4 but they are 5/8 hole in the middle and 20DP.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Keith Long on 31/01/2017 23:45:06:

I don't think that they're Drummond gears, the spec. for those is 14dp

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Michael

I looked at your pic, but the hole in mine is much nearer the centre bore than on those Drummonds.

I hoped the stamped numbers might be a clue for someone.

I was favouring early Myford, but am having problems with Yahoo Groups just now so can't get into the Myford group as ndiy suggests. (Although I have been a member for years) (Not that that makes any difference to a machine!)

Edited By Robbo on 01/02/2017 09:45:06

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I'd go for something non lathe like a lace machine or similar.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Robbo,

​As a Myford owner of long standing, I can state with confidence that Myford change wheels are 20 DP and
14.5 degree pressure angle. The bore is 5/8 [0.625 inches] and the wheel width is 3/8 [0.375 inches]

The early ML1-4 wheels were linked when needed by a small 3/16 inch diameter pin a little way out of the bore, the more modern wheels for ML7 and variants have a 1/8 inch wide keyway, with linking on a bush with a formed key on the O/D; the other dimensions remain the same.

​I can't identify the ones you show to a machine, but they could be pressed into service on a Myford lathe with the bore opened out and a keyway made accordingly.

I hope that helps the forensics forward a little
Brian

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Certainly not high powered – with pin couplers, and close to the axis. But almost certainly changewheels for something. Not thought of lacemaking (JS is from the Nottingham area!?), but they are rather heavier than I have seen on wood turning lathes (but not seen many).

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I don't know what they are for, but would guess some other than a lathe. There seems to be timing marks on most of them ? Maybe a lace machine as JS said.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Well sotted Gordon. They are also all timed from a tooth , not a valley, so not used in combination with each other unless as idlers (no timing needed).

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Are they timing marks? I thought it was marker pen where whoever has written the number of teeth on the gears marked the starting point when they counted them.

Whoever stammped the numbers on them had two sets of punches as the "1" is a different size so may not be a manufacturers stamp.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

You may be right. This is where more info from robbo is required. He has them, so can confirm one way or the other.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Interesting that the numbers stamped on the gears get larger as the gears get smaller. Maybe they indicate spindle rpm with that particular gear in place? Or number of turns relative to a main spindle or other datum? Could be off any kind of machinery really.

Lace making machine is probably as good a contender as anything, when you look at pics of old machines

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Jason is right about the 'timing marks', they have been made when counting the teeth, with some sort of indelible ink. (It won't rub off) You can see that each marked tooth has a "1" marked just inboard of it.

I had noticed that the smaller the wheel the larger the stamped number, but it wasn't until I read Hopper's post that a light went on!

Suppose these are a changeable part of a gear train, then the number could indicate the rotational speed of the spindle/axle when that gear is put into the train, so the smaller the gear the faster the speed.

This would indicate part of a machine other than a lathe, so now we are back to JS hypothesis about a lace making machine. Given that Myford were once accommodated in an old lace factory, did they base their changewheels on those in some existing machinery in that factory? Remember these are a perfect mesh with Myford 7 series changewheels, but are smaller in every other dimension.

Do we all agree that we have about beaten this to death? If anybody wants them then drop me a line.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Where are you, Robbo? Most machined lacemaking was centred around Nottingham. The area is not renowned for hand lace making. You could enquire at Ruddington framework knitting museum. They might be able to shed some light on it, even if not actually a weaving museum.

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