380V to 220V 3 phase wiring help

380V to 220V 3 phase wiring help

Home Forums Electronics in the Workshop 380V to 220V 3 phase wiring help

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  • #829119
    Wade Beatty
    Participant
      @wadebeatty78296

      I have been looking for a coolant pump for my surface grinder and realize that my Omnimill has a coolant pump in the base that I never use due to the mess it makes when milling. I tested it before removing and it works well on 380VAC. I would like to wire it for 220VAC 3 phase but there is no wiring diagram inside the connections box.

      The internal wiring marking has remained very legible with the following at each numbered connection:

      1. A0 and Line

      2. B0 and Line

      3. C0 and Line

      4. A1, B1 and C1 from motor

      Can someone help me with how to alter these connections for 22VAC please? Photos below, thanks in advance and Merry Christmas to all on this forum (and anyone else for that matter).

      20251217_183001

      20251217_182956

      #829123
      Robert Atkinson 2
      Participant
        @robertatkinson2

        Hi,
        Connect like this:

        1. A0  & C1 to line

        2. B0 & A1 to line

        3. C0 and B1 to line.

        No neutral connection.
        Basically take the 3  neutral / starpoint wires on terminal 4 and move them to the relevent terminal.

        Robert.

        #829125
        Bazyle
        Participant
          @bazyle

          The brown wires on 4 are the ‘other ends’ of each of your windings 1,2,3. Inconveniently all the same colour but helped the manufacturer get them all together. If you draw a 3 pointed star with 4 in the middle and 123 as the points this is the “star connection” for standard 400v 3phase. At anytime in this configuration the voltage is going in at say 1 through a winding to 4 then back out to 2. Hence the 400v is going through 2 windings or 200v each winding.

          The change you want is to get your lower voltage 3 phase across one winding at a time, eg in at 1 but now out at 4 (brown), or in at 2 and out at 4 (but it is a different 4 that is the other end of the no 2 winding). So First identify with a continuity tester (just a battery and LED) which brown is which and label them. Lets call them Brown1, Brown2, Brown3 here but those yellow tags on the wires might be useful idents.
          Now draw a triangle instead of a star – this is called Delta wiring ‘cos it is sort of like a D. Each of the points of the triangle is one of the numbers 1,2,3 and the other end of the previous leg, eg 2 is joined to Brown1, 3 is joined to Brown2.

          The power is now joined to the points of the triangle. Make sure it really is only 200v as if you put 400v through just one winding things are going to get hot.

          #829127
          noel shelley
          Participant
            @noelshelley55608

            Look up steinmetz connection. You have got the instructions for converting from star to delta. This will involve a capacitor. Good luck. Noel.

            #829139
            Pete Rimmer
            Participant
              @peterimmer30576

              John Stevenson said that he just used an old capacitor from a fluorescent tube lamp. I’ve done similar with good results. What are they 4-6uF?

              It would probably work perfectly well without even changing the wiring. I’d try that first. Just wire live to one, neutral to another and a cap from live to the third.

              #829157
              Wade Beatty
              Participant
                @wadebeatty78296

                Thanks Robert and Bazyle!

                #829158
                not done it yet
                Participant
                  @notdoneityet

                  It will run on 220V three phase in star configuration, but with about 60% power output.  That may well be sufficient for the application.

                  #829168
                  Wade Beatty
                  Participant
                    @wadebeatty78296

                    Its a dual voltage 3 phase motor, it needs no capacitor. Normally the winding diagram shows the connections. Now I know how to test and connect without the diagram. Thanks.

                    Further…

                    My Elliott mill had a single voltage (nameplate) motor that I replaced with a higher HP motor. I am guessing that either the star connection was internally connected or they just didn’t say that it was dual voltage as the rest of the motors were also 415V. I am going to open the old motor box to check, I was always curious about that.

                     

                    Wade

                    #829213
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      Just a reminder for anyone new to 3 phase that if it goes in reverse to what you want all you have to do is swap over two of the input wires.
                      On a lot of older motors the star point where all 3 are joined is buried in the middle somewhere. Lots of people say they just poked around and found it but if you or I tried that SOD’s law says the old insulation would disintegrate and short out ruining the motor.

                      #829216
                      noel shelley
                      Participant
                        @noelshelley55608

                        Wade, the need for a capacitor is not for starting as in single phase but to give phase shift to create a false Phase. Noel.

                        #829225
                        Wade Beatty
                        Participant
                          @wadebeatty78296

                          For 3 phase supply on a 3 phase motor,  I have never seen a capacitor used.

                          #829228
                          peak4
                          Participant
                            @peak4
                            On Wade Beatty Said:

                            For 3 phase supply on a 3 phase motor,  I have never seen a capacitor used.

                            I suspect some folk are thinking you’re wanting to run a 415v three phase motor on 220v single phase, and providing capacitor instructions for that. (about 4 microfarad for that on this motor)

                            Yes, if you’re running 220v 3 phase, just change the wiring from star to delta, but ensure your three windings all face in the correct direction on the pump motor, or it will run unevenly as one winding will be opposing the other two.

                            Reversing the motor necessitates reversing any pair of phase windings on the supply side of the connection strip, not the motor side. i.e. Reverse supply A-B not winding U1-2

                            image_2025-12-18_121137658

                            I borrowed the screenshot from HERE

                             

                            Bill

                            #829231
                            noel shelley
                            Participant
                              @noelshelley55608

                              Ah, YES ! I had mistakenly thought that you were trying to run a single 415v3Ph motor on 240V single PH. Your using 220V 3PH from an inverter ? Noel.

                              #829232
                              Ian P
                              Participant
                                @ianp
                                On Bazyle Said:

                                Just a reminder for anyone new to 3 phase that if it goes in reverse to what you want all you have to do is swap over two of the input wires.
                                On a lot of older motors the star point where all 3 are joined is buried in the middle somewhere. Lots of people say they just poked around and found it but if you or I tried that SOD’s law says the old insulation would disintegrate and short out ruining the motor.

                                Seriously!

                                How old does motor winding have to be before it disintegrates, 50 years or even 80 year old wiring and insulation should be usable if the modification is carried out with care, SODs law might make its appearance in a tiny percentage of cases but it would not stop me trying to convert an old motor.

                                Ian P

                                 

                                P.S. I was just about to post this when I realised I would just be adding yet more noise to this thread.

                                I’m not sure whether the OP’s original question has been answered, but certainly some of the replies seem unrelated (as is this one of mine!). It may be that the OP did not give enough information or phrase the question clearly but diversions into Steinmetz and capacitor startings seem a bit irrelevant.

                                Actually after reading most of the thread again and noting that the motor is wired to run on 440V three phase, my suggestion would be to connect to the three phase and just run it. As a coolant pump it is not heavily loaded so work just as it is.

                                 

                                #829233
                                Pete Rimmer
                                Participant
                                  @peterimmer30576

                                  I used to wind motors the star point is not usually buried because it makes testing the windings difficult. Usually they are wound, tested then the leads connected and tied in.

                                  I’m also guilty of failing to read the intent properly. Presumed that the motor was being re-purposed for single phase use.

                                  #829254
                                  Wade Beatty
                                  Participant
                                    @wadebeatty78296

                                    Noel, I have 3 phase 220V to the house and in my workshop. I have an inverter to give me 400V 3 phase for the bigger machines.

                                     

                                    Thanks to everyone for all the help

                                    Wade

                                    #829286
                                    Wade Beatty
                                    Participant
                                      @wadebeatty78296

                                      Works well, of course it ran opposite direction but with a swap of the line leads it is now ready to go.

                                      Wade

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