M&W rules now better…

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

There was a thread a year or so back illustrating an apparent error on M&W 6"/15cm. steel rules, where mine and at least one other were showing the same short measure on the first 1/2 mm. :-

I lost this rule shortly after this, and was using another "Products Engineering" rule instead – but lately this has lost the blacking in some of the calibrations and was sometimes hard to read, so I bought a new M&W to see if they've fixed the problem.

It looks as if they have:-

I think the markings may be deeper too.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

So … now it’s More & Right

MichaelG.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Very droll Michael!!!

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

It's such a shame that they do not manufacture an easy-to-read rule as they used to. Personally, I find the 1/2mm markings quite a distraction too.

Pete

[VicParticipant @vic]

Yes I’m not very fond of the 1/2 mm markings either. I have a rule like that Pete, excellent tool.

I do quite like the Japanese 6” flexible rules when I can find one. I think the Cats have run off with one of mine so I’ve had to order another!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

In school I was taught never to measure from the end of the rule unless you absolutely have to.

Neil

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/09/2019 16:53:52:

In school I was taught never to measure from the end of the rule unless you absolutely have to.

Neil

I'd say it depends on the wear state of the rule, the accessibility and regularity of the datum face, prevailing lighting conditions and maybe other things I've not thought of – but I certainly do so sometimes.

Edited By Mick B1 on 26/09/2019 17:17:26

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

I always liked the design that Sperry shows. I think it was an NPL (National Physical Laboratory) design. Much easier on the eyes. I had a boxwood rule with that design, but it has disappeared somewhere over the years.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

It's a rule guys, yes make it correctly but only a rule in the end.

Tony

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I seem to remember that those 6" rules with the dodgy end were given away as a freebie with one of the magazines a few years ago !!

My dad spotted the problem straight away on his, and told me to check mine out as well which was just as bad.

Maybe M&W were giving them away as a bad batch. Mine only gets used used on the metal cut off saw for rough measurements of bar stock.

Phil

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Half-millimetre markings "a distraction"… One of my rules' inch scales has 1/128" divisions on it. Don't think my eyes were ever that sharp!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I wouldn't be surprised if the ruler in the first pic is a knock-off. Very poor definition of both the numbers and the lines compared with the ruler in the second pic. Almost as if the first were cheaply etched using a M&W as the original.

There is a lot of it about. Look at all the "Mitutoyo" dial gauges and calipers out there that clearly are not from Mitutoyo. So widespread that Mitutoyo has a page on their website on how to distinguish the fakes. Even buying from a reputable supplier is no guarantee these days. They get fooled too.

Same thing has been happening with fake "genuine" Toyota car parts. Being imported by the container load over here. (Oz)

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Hopper on 26/09/2019 23:40:45:

I wouldn't be surprised if the ruler in the first pic is a knock-off. Very poor definition of both the numbers and the lines compared with the ruler in the second pic. Almost as if the first were cheaply etched using a M&W as the original.

There is a lot of it about. Look at all the "Mitutoyo" dial gauges and calipers out there that clearly are not from Mitutoyo. So widespread that Mitutoyo has a page on their website on how to distinguish the fakes. Even buying from a reputable supplier is no guarantee these days. They get fooled too.

Same thing has been happening with fake "genuine" Toyota car parts. Being imported by the container load over here. (Oz)

Hmmm… well, the second example came from the same well-known and (AFAIK) well-regarded supplier as the first. I would have *thought* that they'd maintain quite a careful watch over what was getting into their supply chain.

However, for decades now the brand-name on many items has had a pretty tangled relationship with the actual maker – it often represents at best a set of inspection standards, and at worst a milking of badge-reputation that by its nature can only be temporary. So I don't know if the term "knock-off" actually has any verifiable meaning these days.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Spurry on 26/09/2019 15:36:44:

It's such a shame that they do not manufacture an easy-to-read rule as they used to. Personally, I find the 1/2mm markings quite a distraction too.

Pete

According to their catalogue these "Saw-Tooth Graduations" were "specially introduced for easy reading by students and apprentices".

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Must have been the same religion as Neil's, Never measure from the end of a rule. I still always start from the first full numeral, be it rule or tape. Other commandment, NEVER use a milling cutter in a drill chuck, emphasised with a piece of 4 x 2 (100 x 50) on the back of the head. I still remember everything taught by my crusty old mentors from my apprentice (PROPPER ones) days.

Regards Ian.

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Posted by ega on 27/09/2019 09:35:27

According to their catalogue these "Saw-Tooth Graduations" were "specially introduced for easy reading by students and apprentices".

That would seem to infer that students and apprentices no longer have such a requirement. (or they no longer exist)

With regard to Ian's post regarding his "crusty old mentors", not all of us have been so fortunate to have such a knowledge base, and have to make it up as we go along.

Pete

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Circlip on 27/09/2019 10:49:49:

Must have been the same religion as Neil's, Never measure from the end of a rule. I still always start from the first full numeral, be it rule or tape. Other commandment, NEVER use a milling cutter in a drill chuck, emphasised with a piece of 4 x 2 (100 x 50) on the back of the head. I still remember everything taught by my crusty old mentors from my apprentice (PROPPER ones) days.

Regards Ian.

Well, to me, engineering is about being ingenious – the words have the same root – and that means adapting your solutions to meet the issues you find, not regarding advice given long ago in a different situation as holy writ. Sure, there are plenty of times when it's better to use a line than the end, but never is too big a word.

There are times when I've used a small milling cutter in big drill chuck, too, for light cuts – though I'd agree it's not generally desirable.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

I once used a long rule to mark out my loco frames starting from the 1 inch division as I felt that the end of the rule could not be relied upon. Guess what? All went OK until I finished marking out, each time compensating for the "lost inch." On checking it all again, still seemed OK. After drilling all the holes and enlarging the big hole at the front end for the outside cylinder exhaust pipe, I discovered it was 1 inch adrift! Bugger! Then I thought, if patched frames were good enough for that centre of engineering excellence in Swindon (and no doubt elsewhere), then it's got to be good enough for me. I ended up with 2 large adjacent holes. So beware!

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2019 15:12:15:

So … now it’s More & Right

MichaelG.

Michael, made my day!

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

A little jokette from the 1960s;

'Ive got a foot but I don't use it as a rule'

I can't bring myself to recall the context

tim

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