Diesel Fuel

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Noel,

Considering your trailer, have you noticed many EV charging points suitable for car and a trailer?  I can’t say I have.  My trailer is actually longer than my truck and as far as I remember all the charging points I have seen certainly at services and car park locations only have space for a car?  So assuming I could find a suitable EV capable of towing between 2700 and 3500 kg I would need to unhitch to charge.  My range is between 900 and 1000km (around 600m) on a tank light and between 700 and 800 towing.  I haven’t found an EV in my price range with towing capacity (used and sub £10k) that comes anywhere near that!  OK it might mean it costs me more in diesel than electric (if I could 100% home charge on cheap rates) but I have £20-£30k in my pocket, drip feed to cover that.

I am afraid when diesel becomes unobtainium I will have to pack up travelling most weekends in the summer with my “vanity 4×4” and sell my engine if anyone will buy something that pollutes! Double gain for the climate argument though, no diesel emissions and I wont be burning any coal when I get there!  Accepted I am not mr average when it comes to vehicle use but forcing me to an EV will effectively prevent me doing what I most enjoy.

Paul.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

What’s the useful lifespan of an electric vehicle battery these days, and what’s the replacement cost of a new battery, including labour and disposal of the old battery?

 

One thing I suspect local authorities will do to accommodate the needs of EV users with no off-street parking is to increase the number of on-street parking spaces that can only be used by EV users, so hastening the extinction of ICE vehicle drivers, in urban areas at any rate.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Paul, like you my use of a vehicle is not typical, my car is 29 years old, almost no electronics and burns a 90% renewable fuel, the Landrover is over 50 and also burns a renewable fuel. WHY would I want or need to buy an EV that will cause even more pollution just being made? I’m already green ?  Noel.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I’d like to thank Joseph Noci for his forceful comments on our comfy ways of motoring life – the problems we face are far less serious against considering basic survival.

There are many areas of the world where EVs are likely to be useless, thanks to long distances, harsh terrain, poor roads, harsh weather, needs such as carrying relief supplies or farm materials, no chargers available, and so on.

I saw that government assumption that so-many % drivers have ready access to charging facilities, and I reckon that that is the proportion of electric car owners, not the total of motorists. Handy things, percentages.

 

Noel wonders how he would manage driving from Norfolk to Weymouth- which I assume he has done, either by amperes or calories. Well, I live in that area, and I can tell you there are some public chargers about, but not many, typically three for a car-park of over 100 cars capacity. A few in supermarket car-parks, even a couple in the car-park of a large pub! That for a borough with a sizeable local population plus considerably more in the Summer (seaside resort).

I have no idea of their prices. This seems one area where retailers are allowed to get away with not displaying those, although there is no sensible competition anyway. Presumably too, if you are forced to pay via your ‘phone you are also ripped off by added agency and phone-company fees.

 

Also, Weymouth is like many of our older towns, or modern anti-car developments like the sprawling housing-estate of “Poundbury” ten miles away: huge numbers of homes where even simply parking close to your own is a gamble or impossible.

An EV is out o fthe question fo rme even if I could afford one. My present home is in an Edwardian terrace, my previous in a 1970s estate sprinkled with residents’ car-parks. Those politicians and lifestyle-journalists who waffle about charging the car in the front garden, via cables in pavement trenches (which I could theoretically do, using a rainwater channel, assuming I can park there!) or daftest of all plugged into one of the few lamp-posts, really do not have a clue and worse, do not care.

 

I feel motoring will return to the early days of battery-electric cars when only the rich could afford any sort of car; and everyone else lived very cramped lives indeed. When was that? The Edwardian era!

It might “save the planet” (the planet was never in danger) but vast swathes of our leisure and culture will die out.

However that only spoils our “first-world” fun.

 

Far more seriously, in Africa, Joe’s descendants will no longer be able to save lions or take water to drought-stricken homes.

Even in places like Canada – even parts of the UK – rural communities will become even more rural and isolated.

 

When the petrol and Diesel fuel, the bunker-oil and the av-gas dry up… then what?

Oh, and those are not the only products of petroleum, either, but we don’t hear or read much discussion about the future loss of the other materials and the consequences for the all-electric life.

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

I don’t think diesel will disappear for commercial users for a quite a while so if you are OK with visiting truck stops to refuel for your long trips then you’ll be fine.

Interesting things to watch will be the build out of HGV charging stations as an enabler (Europe seems to be quite advanced on major routes going by “Electrotrucker” on Youtube, UK only just getting started) and what our Chinese friends do in the southern hemisphere. BYD are apparently selling their petrol/electric hybrid pickup in Australia and South Africa now so we will discover if it is rugged/useful enough to survive.

 

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

As long as there is a good reason for needing diesel there will be a supply. Once the demand dwindles, so will the supply, tried getting TVO recently?

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Couple of comments o points raised:

HGV charging
There is a very long way to go with this. At the moment there arn’t enough parking spaces never mind charging.  At a services on a major trunk route not far from me almost all the car parking has been taken over by trucks plus lots of the roads etc but there is still not enough. Charging around 100 HGVs, even overnight will take a lot of power. If we go with the low end of 350kWh per truck over 8H that is over 40kW per truck or 4MW  for 100 trucks. That’s 200 acres of solar farm, not that solar is any use at night. Or put another way the same as an estate of 8000 houses.

Pollution
EVs are only clean at the point of use.
How green the “renewable” Drax power station is while it’s burning imported wood pellets is another debate.

Prices
No petrol and diesel will not always be available at current prices. The price of fossel fuels is almost certain to rise in the long term. Conversly electricity costs are also likely to increase and the current “discounts” for green usage like EVs are also likely to disappear. Many of the EV incentives and tax breaks have already been reduced or removed.

Durability and through life costs
Only time will.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I can’t see much of today’s electricity being produced by wood pellets at the moment?

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

But even if it was, I think most people care about the pollution at street level. I believe it was the likely cause of death on a young girls death certificate some years ago?

[VicParticipant @vic]

SOD. Dave, from what I’ve read most BEV owners charge at home on off peak rates. This is normally equivalent to 2p to 3p a mile. My Petrol car is about 15p a mile so at least five times as much.

Octopus were quoting 1.5p a mile some time ago but their rates have gone up since then.

https://octopus.energy/ev-tariffs/

Octopus apparently have intelligent charging which is not restricted to nighttime and early morning.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

Drax power station in Yorkshire burns 20,000 tonnes of wood pellets per day.

Despite being the UK’s largest [CO2] emitter in 2023, Drax received £22bn in subsidies despite being the country’s largest emitter.

 

How do we keep the lights on with 12 GW net firm capacity at risk of retirement by 2030? Speech to the Institution of Power Engineers, 13 November 2025

 

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

We could get rid of plants like Drax with more renewables and battery storage if there was the will to do so.

https://youtu.be/fR–t-eMq_Y?si=j7F5-lO6jrlakKbA

 

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Robert –

No the sun does not shine at night… so the solution being used? Fill yet more agricultural land with acres of shipping-containers filled with batteries.

 

Vic –

Perhaps…

…most BEV owners charge at home on off peak rates…

… because most BEV buyers are those able to charge their cars on their own homes’ drives? And most of the rest are able to charge theirs at work, or by a public charger at 3a.m. or something? If you cannot charge the thing at home you are far less likely to buy such a car – my situation, even if I could afford the thing anyway.

Also, many people choose their cars according to what they want them for, not just affordability or owning a leafy-suburbs semi.

If your motoring gets adventurous if more than ten miles away then a small saloon will probably be fine.

If you want to cart a heavy, bulky model engine to some event a hundred miles away for a weekend at a rally your choices are more limited, although BE vans are becoming more available and presumably the motor-caravan converters are on the case by now.

.

Regarding charging times, I foresee having to plan for long trips possibly taking an hour or two longer than they should, not only because the recharge takes 20 or 30 minutes, but by having to queue for the few chargers available in any one place.

BTW anyone who knows the M5 services near Bridgewater – called “Sedgemoor” I think – will have seen where it installed its three chargers. Not to one side of the car-park, but replacing three of the five or six original disabled-parking places next to the building’s front door, and those nearest the door at that.

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

“We could get rid of plants like Drax with more renewables and battery storage if there was the will to do so.”

Could you supply the costings for doing exactly this?
Exactly, the cost of battery storage per KW/hr at grid scale?

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

[VicParticipant @vic]

[VicParticipant @vic]

It seems the maths are starting to become apparent to some motorists now. Especially as some BEV’s are the same price price as comparable ICE cars, even without the £3,750 government grant.

[VicParticipant @vic]

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, we will all be non-existent before the sun stops shining, but the majority of people normally live in one geolocation 24/7, and so for them, the sun doesn’t shine there at night. 😎

Regards Nick.

[VicParticipant @vic]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

As a matter of interest, how are the batteries charged so rapidly?

Do they consist of a very large number of fairly low-capacity cells all only in parallel for charging, whatever the discharge connections?

[VicParticipant @vic]

Getting back on topic regarding Diesel. These are the SMMT figures for December 2025.

Sales of Diesel cars crashed another 12.5% to just 4.2% in December. This is from around 55% just a few years ago.

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

And the clear benefits to towns and cities with the increase of BEV’s.

 

[Author]

Posts