Search Results for 'arc euro'

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Just about anywhere is the answer. If you cannot grind your own tools or hone them to keep them really sharp, then buy carbide tips and holders. The tips can be changed when blunt. Try Arc Eurotrade, that is where mine came from.

I would urge you to invest in a sharpening set up for HSS turning tools. They are a lot cheaper than going the carbide tip route and I tend to get a better finish on most materials. Although this could be the wrong type of tip that I use!

Andrew.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Patryk Socha on 24/07/2018 19:41:27:

…clone assembly operations based on OPTIMUM model….

 

 

are OPTIMUM machines imported to UK ?

Edited By Patryk Socha on 24/07/2018 19:44:09

Yes – google search shows: Excel Machine Tools, Techsoft.

OPTIMUMs generally have more sales in Europe, outside the U.K… In Europe, as Optimum is a 'German manufacturer', there is preference on their branding. Optimum makes these machines under a joint venture agreement in China. I spoke to their Chinese joint venture partner about ten years ago. In a phone conversation, introduced myself as a SIEG dealer, to be met with the response 'I do not consider SIEG to be a real machine manufacturer. If you want real machines, we can talk', and that was the end of that conversation

Every time a SIEG dealer gets pissed off with SIEG, they move over to OPTIMUM… current examples: HAFCO – Australia, Shamskin – Sweden… I understand that if one becomes an OPTIMUM dealer, they do not want you to sell machines made by SIEG.

ARC is happy to carry on with SIEG.

Ketan at ARC

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 24/07/2018 21:30:36

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Patryk,

Having read your posts, I believe that you have already a good idea in your mind for what you want, based on your link. The machine looks similar to Warco WM16B. So, I would suggest that you explore that route, especially if your intended use is business related (regardless or how many hours less or more, you intend to use). With exception of SX3 – for which we provide 1 year warranty – to include light industrial use, we do not give warranty for any other SIEG machines, if sold to businesses, or for business purpose. As far as ARC is concerned, all hobby machines are correctly rated for hobby use only.

You state: "Just skimming through distributors websites shows there are a fair bit of belt driven machines available. I think you guys are putting upward pressure on manufacturers in China. It is no secret that Asian manufacturers don't really bother with testing their products, there is simply no time for that. They instead use their userbase as a testing platform. So newer models seem to be largely belt driven."

ARC Reply: Your understanding is a little wrong. SIEG have a continuous program of developing new products. Every time they have developed something new, it has been an up and down struggle to place such products on the market, for example the brushless – belt drive, especially as they cost more to develop properly, and the related components are more expensive than the traditional gear drive with DC brushed motors. Before placing on the market, the machines are tested, and they go through testing houses – SGS (as an example), to meet certain standards. Still, there are times when they have got it wrong. This is where customer and distributor feedback has come into play to make corrections or improvements which they consider necessary. There are certain points which they will simply decline to consider, especially if they are specific 'user related' issues. Everyone has some specific idea for their specific needs, and there is no machine which will tick all boxes for every user.

For the record, SIEG brought out brushless motor – with belt drive around five years before any of its competitors. It has taken a long time for the competitors to get their version of the brushless belt drive combination right, because the main issue has been related to programming of the torque across the full speed range. If this is fine or not, tested or not, put through testing houses or not, is something you would need to ask them. I for one fail to agree with their figures for wattage, because as far as I am concerned, they state input power, rather than output power. SIEG machines sold under the SIEG branding state output power. Output power is usually lower than input power, but marketing is what sells machines!

HISTORY: As SIEG started having some success with their brushless motor – belt drive combination, end users started asking their suppliers for the same. Hence the slow start and increase in belt drive offering. Regardless, there have been belt drive machines of various ilk in place long before the current offering, as well as various conversions. This in no way means that the geared heads are any less in quality.

With geared heads, many have nylon gears – which are there as a fail safe sacrificial in case of 'user related issues'. However, if and when they break, they become more difficult to replace. in some cases, users blame the machine rather than their own actions resulting in damage. This lack of understanding by new entrants to the hobby results in some negative feedback for geared head machines. So, sometimes there is an automatic presumption that belt drive is better.

You state: For example, what are the differences between Arc Euro Trade and Axminster machines? What parts have been replaced, etc…. It would be a little bit more transparent…

ARC Reply: Apart from the colour, nothing mechanical or electrical. ARC have been selling SIEG machines in original SIEG colour and branding for five to six years longer than Axminster. Axminster give a three year warranty (make note of conditions), ARC gives a one year warranty. Axminster sell a bigger range of SIEG machines than ARC. Parts: ARC carries a good range of spares link.

ARC only buys mills and lathes from SIEG, mainly because we just have to deal with one set of gremlins, we have an 18 year working relationship with them, there is mutual understanding and trust between us, and sometime we have some serious disagreements – just like any marriage. I will further stick my neck out and say that OPTIMUM, and SIEG spend a lot of time and money on R&D and going through testing houses to meet various compliance obligations. I know from experience that most others are copies, with varying levels of build quality, be they good, bad or ugly, wrongly piggy backing on SIEGs and OPTIMUMs compliance paperwork to avoid paying such costs. the link you gave, along with Warco, and any other similar offering is a great example of piggybacking on OPTIMUM offering. At the end of the day, that may or may not be of relevance to the end user/buyer, depending on a whole bunch of factors unique to the buyer.

The best suggestion I can give is to proceed down the link/Warco exploration route you gave, rather than the SIEG route, as our experience suggests that you will probably be happy with the decision which you have already made in your own mind, and good luck.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 24/07/2018 14:59:21

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Far Eastern hobby lathes aren't quite like cars where – perhaps – the marque gives a broad hint of what you'll get and mass sales make reliable reliability figures available.

Hobby machines, mills and lathes, tend to be variants of similar designs. The designs are competently modern rather than outstanding. Although extra features & improvements are 'nice to have', even a basic machine will perform. More important than the machine is learning to drive it. Don't get hung up on details unless you know they matter to you.

As Neil says, modification of machines after delivery to the UK is unlikely. Our labour costs are far higher than in China; if work is going to be done on a machine, it's best done in the factory.

Decoding from the ads exactly what today's best buy is may not be possible, nor helpful. In any case the equipment tends to be similar. The exception is that new machines are currently appearing with brushless dc motors. Definitely worth having, but I manage perfectly well without one!

The advantage of buying from a British distributor is consumer protection and the distributors reputation. Occasionally people are dissatisfied with new machines. I've had no trouble with Warco; ArcEuro get a good press; Axminister are more expensive but you get an extended warranty; look up Chester for yourself; Machine Mart I find expensive; others I have no knowledge either way. Optimum claim German engineering standards applied to Chinese kit; their machines are markedly more expensive, and there are hints you don't get much improvement for your money.

Buying direct from the Far East or a very cheap local source is more dangerous. If a self-imported machine is faulty, you might have trouble getting satisfaction. Very cheap machines may be factory seconds – rejects not good enough for a Western distributor.

Far eastern machines aren't perfect but faults seem more likely to be fit and finish rather than fundamental these days. My Warco machines all worked straight out of the box but all benefited from minor fettling. Judging by my equipment, parts are machine made with economy rather than good looks in mind. The parts were assembled quickly, not always as well as I would have done myself, with minor problems caused by the likes of burrs, slight misalignments and loose bolts. On my milling machine, the only fault was a bump on the casting causing the Z DRO to stick and jump mid-range. Removing the DRO, filing the bump off and refitting took about ten minutes.

I had a bad experience buying second-hand early on, and I agonised a bit before buying new, mainly because internet posts circa 1998 don't care much for tooling unless it was made in the West. With hindsight it was a mistake to dither. Now I've owned and used Chinese machines for a few years, I've a much better idea what to look for. It would have been worth the money just to learn that. As it happens, the machines do all I need and I'm unlikely to change.

Important to understand your own psychology. At the end of the day, you have to be comfortable with the tool. Some are happy to get results from whatever they have, others are thoroughly upset and irritated by minor imperfections. If you're in the latter camp, either spend serious money on a new industrial machine, or start searching for a good second-hand one. As you've spotted small ex-industrial milling machines are in short supply, and not always in good condition. But you might get lucky – it's not impossible.

Dave

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For what my advice is worth, buy a machine that appears a little larger than your immediate need. Your horizons will expand as you find the capabilities of the process, and you will then find jobs that are a little too large for your small "starter" machine.

I don't have a machine from Arc Euro, (The Mill/Drill and the Bandsaw are Warco, but that followed a bad experience with a smaller version but have had to repair and "fettle" that over the years) Having bought various items from them over the years, thoroughly recommend them. Have never had anything but prompt and good service,

Sometime, if you are travelling from M K to East Anglia, divert to Syston and see what they have on offer.

You may be pleasantly surprised by your visit, (I'll be surprised if you are not)

Howard

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Patryk Socha on 24/07/2018 12:12:47:

As my understanding is increasing, I think that some distributors are "modifying" stock machines from China, or improving them, before sticking to them their brand name. I am probably asking for impossible, but is there some sort of list or comparison of what changes/improvements are done by importers? For example, what are the differences between Arc Euro Trade and Axminster machines? What parts have been replaced, etc…. It would be a little bit more transparent…

That used to happen a bit in the early days, but these days most of the differences are in the factory.

Best to speak to/visit sellers, to discuss differences. They can be as superficial as the colour or quite fundamental to the machine's capabilities.

Machine specs can change between batches, so a fair list covering every seller would be impossible to keep accurate.

Neil

[Patryk SochaParticipant @patryksocha88647]

Are there any voices for different distributors? So far votes here are rather unanimous in favor of Sieg, if discard voices discouraging from a mini mill at all. But I would like to at least consider other options as part of an informed decision.

As my understanding is increasing, I think that some distributors are "modifying" stock machines from China, or improving them, before sticking to them their brand name. I am probably asking for impossible, but is there some sort of list or comparison of what changes/improvements are done by importers? For example, what are the differences between Arc Euro Trade and Axminster machines? What parts have been replaced, etc…. It would be a little bit more transparent…

[NigeParticipant @nige81730]

I have no experience of WARCO Patryk but did consider them when I was looking to purchase machines for my workshop. For me the after sales service a company offers is important and Ketan (Mr Arc Eurotrade) is a regular contributor in this forum and has his finger firmly on the pulse of machine usage and the pitfalls and problems that can arise. I believe, (though would be happy to be corrected) that he is the only supplier who is so well plugged in to this forum and those were factors I took into account.

In the spirit of full disclosure I am a very satisfied customer of Arc Eurotrade having purchased a Sieg SC4-510 lathe and a Sieg SX2.7 milling machine a few months back, otherwise I have no other financial interests in the company.

[Patryk SochaParticipant @patryksocha88647]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 23/07/2018 20:58:11:

Patryk,

If you are considering a Sieg X2 type or equivalent, may I suggest, don't! I have a clone, and it's not exactly the best! You will find that there are one heck of a lot of modifications on the internet to bring these machines up to an acceptable standard. Our esteemed editor, Mr Wyatt no less, has an X2, and has published a number of modifications himself. Mine is an X2 clone – I won't say who by or who sold it as it is no longer available, but it is every bit as bad some of the reports, and indeed I am slowly incorporating some of Neil's modifications into mine.

What I would suggest is that you have a good look at the Arc Euro Trade offering, they have three versions of an upgraded X2. You may be interested to know that Arc stopped selling the original X2 because of all the problems.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

 

 

So far I was leaning towards SX2.7 (X3 a little bit too expensive). Does it still fall into X2 problems?

Edited By Patryk Socha on 23/07/2018 21:14:38

Edited By Patryk Socha on 23/07/2018 21:15:25

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Patryk,

If you are considering a Sieg X2 type or equivalent, may I suggest, don't! I have a clone, and it's not exactly the best! You will find that there are one heck of a lot of modifications on the internet to bring these machines up to an acceptable standard. Our esteemed editor, Mr Wyatt no less, has an X2, and has published a number of modifications himself. Mine is an X2 clone – I won't say who by or who sold it as it is no longer available, but it is every bit as bad some of the reports, and indeed I am slowly incorporating some of Neil's modifications into mine.

What I would suggest is that you have a good look at the Arc Euro Trade offering, they have three versions of an upgraded X2. You may be interested to know that Arc stopped selling the original X2 because of all the problems.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[jann westParticipant @jannwest71382]

I would say a sieg x2.x would be the best bet … available from arceurotrade/axminster/chester/warco/ebay/all the usual suspects.

Easy to CNC, good work envelope for people unsure of their use, can be lifted by one person, lotsa mods.

Have fun!

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Many people start with the Sieg X1 which is supplied by Arc Euro Trade (see link above right) amongst many other suppliers. Arc have a useful variant with long bed and in my experience give good customer service. It has been converted by several people to CNC, and many other people have made useful mods – see here for example. It has an MT2 spindle taper in which you can use MT2 finger collets direct or an ER collet chuck (at the expense of ~50mm of machining height). Other mills are available and YMMV. Apart from the machine you need collets and/or chuck, a drilling chuck, a suitable machine vice and clamping components, and a few decent cutters to start.

Arc also have Sieg lathes, and in my experience I use the lathe as much as a mill.

For info I have a Myford Super 7 converted to CNC, a Myford VMB manual mill, and a Denford Novamill for which I built the electronics.

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Have a look at Arceurotrade website they are selling off their imperial tsps dies.

[MonomanParticipant @monoman]

We should all remember that the railway companies, especially the Big Four, were far in advance of anything known outside their industry. However they were very coy about sharing their knowledge. It is on the record that the military were amazed at the competence of the railway workshops when searching for engineering contractors when preparing (?) for WWII..

This attitude was prevalent across europe, forum members will recall that Churchward had to buy locos he wanted to test from France and Germany. See the history of his interest in compounding.

Incidentally there are published photographs of the use of Leitz equipment to align the drive mechanism in Colletts time when the normal workshop practice elsewhere relied on the use of mark one eyeball and string.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A secondhand machine in good condition will save you money compared to the same machine new.

One in poor condition will be a major source of disappointment, frustration not to mention being a drain on your wallet and time.

I had a ML7 but one reason for getting rid was that the 2MT spindle, was too restrictive, since very little over 13mm would pass through the mandrel.

Later 7 Series have 4MT spindle, so will pass upto 29mm.. But may not have power cross feed, and will be costly compared some of the new machines from the Far east.

Was in Arc Euro Trade today, and whilst waiting, took a quick look at a Seig SC4. Looks to be a tiny bit shorter between centres than a Myford 7 (About 25mm if that is vital). Mandrel is 3 MT so will accept upto about 20mm at a guess. Will be about a quarter of the cost of an equivalent 7 Series. Take a look at the spec.

Am merely a satisfied customer of Arc Euro Trade. Ketan and his staff have always been very fair in their dealings, and not just with me. (He gave a lot of support to someone who had major problems, with a lathe that had not been bought from him). Hence I can recommend dealing with them, if they have what you want.

Similar, and larger, lathes are available from Warco, Chester and Axminster, in U K.

If in doubt, buy a machine a little larger than you think; your horizons will expand.

For the past 15 years, my lathe has been a Far Eastern product, with a hardened bed, 5MT mandrel, and came complete with a Norton gearbox, steadies and 3 and 4 jaw chucks. Like the Warco BH600, and Chester Craftsman, of which it is a clone, they will have been superceded by gear rather than belt driven siblings.

Choose carefully, and then enjoy yourself!

Howard

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Posted by JohnF on 17/07/2018 17:02:00:

Noel,

Have a look at this link on the forum its a way of cutting metric threads without using the metric conversion set, a couple of "none standard" gears are needed but easily obtainable from Myford

And eloquently described in Brian Wood's book "Gearing of Lathes for Screwcutting" (which is interesting reading in its own right). Last time I looked Amazon had copies, also ArcEuro.

Rgds Simon

[IRTParticipant @irt]

I am considering purchasing a mill.

My problem is the space I have available in my garage workshop.



Can someone with a Seig sx2.7 take measurements please and save me a 150 mile round trip with my tape measure?



How much floor space do I need to get full travel of the bed, and have enough room to work if the mill is located against a wall?



I see some people advocating putting a mill in the corner of the workshop – Is this a good idea? Again, what is the footprint required for full use?



Arc Euro Trade sell the sx2.7 with 2 bed length options.

If anyone can answer these questions, can you also let me know which size bed your mill is fitted with please.



Ta.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Jack,

If you intend to keep the machine, check if this stiffness 'repeats' itself after specific distances. If so, then follow some of the advice above.

Else, if the problem is isolated to that spot, then look at that area under the bed, where the rack attaches to the front of the bed. See this link, picture 30 shows it being removed. See if there is any swarf present behind the rack in this area, and or any high spot/burr in the bed casting in this area Pictures 84 – 91 and deal with it accordingly.

Ketan at ARC.

Edit: Just noticed that XD 351 said similar.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 17/07/2018 15:06:58

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I made one to take a tipped parting blade from ARC Euro. Nice solid piece of steel seems to absorb any vibration. Make one and you will never look back, parts 40mm stock at 800 rpm and power feed at 0.05mm per rev. Just have to use flood coolant if doing that though, most times hand fed and a bit of lube from a brush.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I have seen recommendations for staying with HSS tooling on the minlathe whilst others seem to use carbide just as often as HSS if not more.

To add to my selection of tooling I got myself and 8mm index tipped tool from Arceuro with a set of the 060-204 tips.

Despite my gouty hand at the moment I gave the new tool a try this morning turning a piece of 10mm steel bar. Just a simple test but it seemed to work fine. I have read that the tipped tools need to work harder so I ran the bar at 1600 rpm, dont know if that was about correct for 10mm bar and a tipped tool but I guessed at it. I gave a finishing cut of 2 thou and it seemed to be a decent finish, probably not quite as good as HSS but ok.

Would appreciate thoughts on the tipped tools and minlathes.

Ron

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 14/07/2018 17:56:39:

I have clicked the Arc SC4-500 link given and come here:

**LINK**

Text states that there is direct belt drive from motor to spindle and the exploded view downloaded from here

**LINK**

shows belt drive to a shaft bellow spindle and gears from shaft to spindle

What am I to believe?

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 14/07/2018 17:59:35

The belt drives a layshaft via a hefty internal (metal) gear pair that can be used to disengage the spindle (intended for use with a milling accessory not currently available in the UK, this also allows power feed to be used independently of spindle rotation and a few esoteric things like helping balance faceplate work).

In the original version these gears were a bit noisy, I can attest that isn't the case with new machines.

Neil

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 14/07/2018 17:56:39:

I have clicked the Arc SC4-500 link given and come here:

**LINK**

Text states that there is direct belt drive from motor to spindle and the exploded view downloaded from here

**LINK**

shows belt drive to a shaft bellow spindle and gears from shaft to spindle

What am I to believe?

The lathe spindle is driven by the motor via a belt.

The shaft is geared to the spindle using gears; this is for screwcutting and power feed.

So you can believe both!

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

I have clicked the Arc SC4-500 link given and come here:

**LINK**

Text states that there is direct belt drive from motor to spindle and the exploded view downloaded from here

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/machineparts/Super-C4-Parts-Diagram-and-List-2014.pdf

shows belt drive to a shaft bellow spindle and gears from shaft  to spindle

What am I to believe?

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 14/07/2018 17:59:35

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

James , you could do yourself a massive favour by giving Ketan at Arc eurotrade a call and discussing it with him .

If you look at the Mew articles by Neil and jason you will see some of the kit that Arc has supplied to them for evaluation and how to use them

You can buy a new lathe that will do everything and more than the old Myford and you have backup from a supplier who has a reputation for excellent service . Leave the second hand machines for those who like to restore them – a myford will not make you a better machinist only a poorer one !

And before anyone tries to put me down as a myford hater – i just firmly believe a newcomer should spend more time on machining practices not rebuilding a flogged out machine regardless of its make . I would love to have either a smick harrison , boxford or even an ml10 in my shop but there is always that thought in the back of my mind – how much wear is there and where do i get parts if they are available at all ?

[Gordon TarlingParticipant @gordontarling37126]

I bought one from Arc Euro, though I have no idea of who the manufacturer is.