WM280 Lathe runs in reverse only

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by JasonB on 06/05/2017 20:53:57:

Posted by Ian Phillips on 06/05/2017 20:14:03:

Apar

Where is the speed control potentiometer? (not relevant to Chris's problem but shows poor documentation)

Have another look it is on the diagram, shows poor eyesight

Oops! I have a reasonable monitor on my PC but I did miss the little grey box on a pale background box with grey RP text in it.

I can also see that two wires at least have markers (or ferrules?) where they enter the chocolate block. It may be that some of other things I picked up on are not as I interpreted them. Overall it still looks a poor show (as witnessed by the fact it did not work out of the box)

Ian P

[Dave SpicerParticipant @davespicer27262]

Chris

When in reverse and you press the start button you hear the contactor clicking in, does the contactor engage when in forward?

Dave

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Hi Dave, yes it does. The contactor engages on both forward and reverse, it just does not turn in forward…

The 50v I mentioned were picked up from the F/R switch on points 2,5 and 7, and that was measured to ground.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Possibly a corrupt program setting in the VFD.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ian Phillips on 06/05/2017 20:32:00:

there also seems to be a white cable passing through a hole in the enclosure and no grommet visible.

It's fibreglass sleeve around a small bundle of cables.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by ChrisB on 06/05/2017 21:46:27:

Hi Dave, yes it does. The contactor engages on both forward and reverse, it just does not turn in forward…

The 50v I mentioned were picked up from the F/R switch on points 2,5 and 7, and that was measured to ground.

As a test, you could remove the wires connected to the terminals M0/M1 and GND….temporarily install them in some choc block…then, wire a link across M0 and GND, then with the fwd/rev switch in the fwd position, does the machine run? Then do the same with M1 and GND and the switch in rev….that would prove the programming of the inverter in terms of fwd/rev running…

Parameter38 should be set to 01 and Parameter 01 should be set to 02

Edited By John Rudd on 06/05/2017 22:20:45

Edited By John Rudd on 06/05/2017 22:21:59

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Chris

I think the 50 Volts (I presume AC) if you measured it to ground (mains earth?) is just a value induced into the wiring by capacitance. If the ground you used is the one on the VFD (next to MI and M2) then it makes less sense since 7 on the switch is connected to gnd via the contactor.

The only voltages likely to be present on any of the lathe wiring is either mains or the control voltage produced by the VFD (usually 12 or 24V DC).

The wiring of your Warco lathe is a little unusual in that it incorporates a contactor (with 240VAC coil) through which the VFD logic controls are routed. I am not qualified to say what the purpose of the contactor is but I understand that it needs to be energised all the time the motor is to run.

My hunch is that there is something amiss with the configuration of the VFD. It may be that the M1 and M2 inputs have some programmable feature that has not been set correctly.

The most useful testing you could do would be to measure what voltage is present on M1 and M2 (referenced to their 'gnd' terminal) in all conditions. IE when off, in fwd, and in rev. (so six readings).

Ian P

[Peter SpinkParticipant @peterspink21088]

Posted by ChrisB on 06/05/2017

Edited By ChrisB on 06/05/2017 19:20:21

Are these pics really as the machine was supplied?

That wiring is absolutely dreadful.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/05/2017 22:01:26:

Posted by Ian Phillips on 06/05/2017 20:32:00:

there also seems to be a white cable passing through a hole in the enclosure and no grommet visible.

It's fibreglass sleeve around a small bundle of cables.

Is it the same on your lathe? it just looks like a cable to me. Actually a small bundle of cables is a cable, still no grommet though

I'm still baffled by the filter though.

Ian P

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Shouldnt Warco pay for an electrician to fix it under warranty?

Expecting an owner to dive into 240 volt wiring seems a bit much.

Edited By Hopper on 06/05/2017 22:54:33

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Are these pics really as the machine was supplied?

That wiring is absolutely dreadful..

I agree but would add disgraceful.

Emgee

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Peter Spink on 06/05/2017 22:24:23:

…

Are these pics really as the machine was supplied?

That wiring is absolutely dreadful.

.

It seems to be the general standard, Peter

… See this recent thread: **LINK**

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=105922&p=4

MichaelG.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Early morning at the workshop with a good dose of coffee gave a good result!

Went through all connections, removed and repositioned the terminals one by one (some were barely touching). When I came to the contactor, one wire came loose as soon as I poked it with the screwdriver, it's one of the black wires on the lower end of the contactor. Fixed it back in place, turned on the lathe and Hey Ho! the lathe now runs in both directions!

I think I'll rewire the whole thing at some point, nothing wrong with the wires themselves but they could have been longer and routed properly around the case…coming from an aviation background I'm used to much much tidier wiring.

I won't tell Warco yet the problem is solved just yet…I want to see what kind of aftersales they will offer… Ah, btw I have that blown lamp to report!

Thank you all for your help and suggestions, you're a really helpful bunch!

Edited By ChrisB on 07/05/2017 07:44:28

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Glad to hear you got it sorted. Frustrating on a new machine to be sure but you'll be making swarf now!

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Just a comment on the filter board (Item ZF on the diagram.) I think the filter board also contains a 5 volt DC power supply that is used for the tachometer. So the filter components on the board do not seem to be used.

Chris, I'm glad that your problem is sorted out.

Les.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Well done Chris, you've saved yourself a lot of bother over a minor fault.

I've toyed with the idea of rewiring mine too, but decided not to bother given that the connections are sound and none of the wires run foul. It would be quite easy to tart the wiring up with judicious lacing, but so what? Putting a 'proper' loom in would be mostly cosmetic: it's is a hobby lathe, not a Jumbo Jet. If it ain't bust, don't fix it.

I would also argue that, in simple circuits like this, the loose wire approach makes it relatively easy to trace and fix individual connections: one is not faced with a mass of wires in an anonymous bundle. I guess those who like tidy wiring looms have never encountered a faulty one!

Enjoy.

Dave

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by Les Jones 1 on 07/05/2017 09:49:10:

Just a comment on the filter board (Item ZF on the diagram.) I think the filter board also contains a 5 volt DC power supply that is used for the tachometer. So the filter components on the board do not seem to be used.

Chris, I'm glad that your problem is sorted out.

Les.

Les,

The thought of not using the filter components had crossed my mind too, but I couldnt think why they would build one into the machine….its obvious now you pointed it out…! Its a similar if not same board used in Dusty's lathe, that was a dc machine….as the vfd has in built filters, an external one is not needed….however, I fed my vfd via the filter when swapped out for vfd, making wiring up simpler and no need for chocolate block…..

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi John,
It is a result of looking at Dusty's problem that made me think that only the power supply was being used. I looked on the web (Which was not that simple as Warco's website is down at the moment.) to find a picture of the WM280 to confirm that it had a tachometer before posting the comment.

Les.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hi Les,

Just a quick thank you for publishing your notes on the WM250 and now explaining the filter too! ChrisB's problem caused me to look closely at my lathe for the first time, and the switching arrangements aren't immediately clear from the block diagram. I almost understand it now, and it will make it much easier to fault find if I ever have a problem.

Cheers,

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 07/05/2017 09:51:17:

I would also argue that, in simple circuits like this, the loose wire approach makes it relatively easy to trace and fix individual connections: one is not faced with a mass of wires in an anonymous bundle. I guess those who like tidy wiring looms have never encountered a faulty one!

Don't say that. I've just invested in two metres of spiral wrap to tidy up my Prusa!

:-0

Neil

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/05/2017 15:39:44:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 07/05/2017 09:51:17:

I would also argue that, in simple circuits like this, the loose wire approach makes it relatively easy to trace and fix individual connections: one is not faced with a mass of wires in an anonymous bundle. I guess those who like tidy wiring looms have never encountered a faulty one!

Don't say that. I've just invested in two metres of spiral wrap to tidy up my Prusa!

:-0

Neil

I would suggest that even in simple circuits, eliminating any movement in wiring will reduce the chances of premature failure within the harness. In the case of a lathe vibration may well be the most likely enemy and constraining cabling neatly in a properly thought out harness and laying it out correctly is far better than the way the Warco lathes seem to come these days. My WM250V was the same as has been depicted here unlike the GH1330 which was very neatly wired. So once out of warranty, all the wiring came out of the 250 and rewired properly in a properly laced wiring loom. I know the spira band stuff is easy but I have several rolls of the old fashioned lacing cord and enjoy making up wiring looms that way

[Peter SpinkParticipant @peterspink21088]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/05/2017 15:39:44:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 07/05/2017 09:51:17:

I would also argue that, in simple circuits like this, the loose wire approach makes it relatively easy to trace and fix individual connections: one is not faced with a mass of wires in an anonymous bundle. I guess those who like tidy wiring looms have never encountered a faulty one!

Don't say that. I've just invested in two metres of spiral wrap to tidy up my Prusa!

:-0

Neil

Spirowrap is great stuff but you lose the will to live after ther first few inches – and a pain in the backside if you find you need an extra wire in the loom – how do I know this 😀

Good old lacing cord is much easier and cable ties done properly are fine – what would we do without them!

But the standard of wiring I've seen in these pics and the earlier posts is, frankly, abysmal.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Better idea to rewire after warranty is over as you mentioned Graeme, will leave it as is for now. For sure I wont use spiral wrap if I had to rewire it (sorry Neil) I'd rather use woven self-wrapping sleeves, so much easier to put on and remove if required.

On another note, along with the lathe I got a WM18 mill which I have not switched on yet, tomorrow I'm moving it and give checking it out….wish me luck!!

Edited By ChrisB on 07/05/2017 21:41:55

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

To wrap up this thread, I had sent an email to Warco to explain my situation. Yesterday they replied and basically told me to do the same things discussed over here, check wiring etc.

I was assured their machinery is tested by an engineer prior to dispatch, so the fault could have happened during transit. Anyway I'm happy with the out come and the way Warco responded.

Although the machine might be a bit rough around the edges and maybe not as refined as other premium brands, it will do for what I need it for and for what I was willing to pay – enough to say that locally a similar sized Weiss Chinese lathe cost almost double the price of a Warco.

Edited By ChrisB on 09/05/2017 17:56:07

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