MIG Welder Won’t Weld

[Martyn Nutland 1Participant @martynnutland1]

Hello All

I wonder if someone could help me. I have bought a Parkside PFDS 33 B3 mini MIG welder and I can’t get the slighttest spark from it and don’t know what I’m doing wrong. I plug it into the mains and the light comes on and it ‘hums’. I clamp the earth variously to the work, to the bench, to the central heating pipe, to a piece of steel plate clamped to the bench, to a mill vive on the concrete floor. The wire feeds out but when I touch it to the work NOTHING!

Is it an earth issue?

All a bit disappointing as I wanted to learn to weld.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Best rom France.   Martyn

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Is there a panel concealing a couple of terminals that you swap over between GAS and GASLESS welding wire. Perhaps neither are connected ??

Bob

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Notwithstanding that you have the power controls set to some useful figure (?3/4 of the way ‘up’) to test, it sounds like there’s an improperly made connection / wire hanging off somewhere.

Unplug the machine and assess the integrity of the torch / earth lead connections – bearing in mind that it might be easier to exchange it rather than get involved in a ‘project’.

Quite likely that some ‘ends’ are inside the works.

The earth clamp should ideally be applied straight to the workpiece, the contact patch having been thoroughly degreased & cleaned to the same standard as the area of the joint itself i.e. fresh bare metal.

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

 

 

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

Well it could be a dud but also some minor assembly problem in the excitement of having a new tool to play with.

I don’t have one but I’ll guess the spool doesn’t come preloaded. Did you put the tip on/back on after threading the wire through and then nip it up tight? A poor connection here would cause the symptom you describe.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

If reading the manual and making sure all switches are correctly set and the torch is connected correctly doesn’t fix it, the unit is probably faulty.

If new, take it back.   Not sure about France, but believe their consumer protection is similar to UK, so the vendor should swap or refund.   Might have to negotiate!

Very good news that the welder didn’t fire up when ‘ I clamp the earth variously to the work, to the bench, to the central heating pipe, to a piece of steel plate clamped to the bench, to a mill vive on the concrete floor.’   Only one of those is correct and two of them risk serious damage.  Welders produce enough heat to melt metal by transforming high-voltage low-current from the mains into high-current low-voltage; heat is proportional to amps squared.   The safety earth in a central-heating system and mill is nowhere near beefy enough to cope with hundreds of amps from a welder which can easily destroy electronics, switch gear, and insulation, including melting hefty copper wires.   Expensive, and could start a fire elsewhere in the house.   The ‘earth’ should only be connected to the item being welded.

Earthing is confusing because it’s done for different reasons, and the combinations don’t always mix well.  The easy answer is read the manual and follow the instructions.   Welders are problematic because they often aren’t domestic appliances, normally installed in an industrial setting by a competent electrician.   The manual says this model is domestic suitable, but read ithe long list of ifs and buts carefully.

Check everything, including the operator instructions, but if it still doesn’t work, it’s faulty.

Dave

 

 

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

It hums – so the mains is getting there. On some machines it is necessary to plug the torch into a socket to select – or + and the earth clamp goes in the other one. The reel of wire is fitted properly ? If it’s MIG then you need a bottle of gas,  CO2 will be fine. If it’s so called gasless then it is NOT MIG, more MMA on a reel. Is the contact tip fitted and clean, may pay to change just in case. You will need a good pair of wire cutters, if you take the tip off cut the ball on the end of the wire off DO NOT try to pull the tip over the end. MIG welding must be done in still air, a draft will blow the gas shield away. Your welding voltage may be as low as 18V so clean the clamp and the material. You could put a meter across the clamp and contact tip and pull the trigger, should read a DC voltage. IF nothing then return it as faulty. Good luck. Noel.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Take it back Martyn, Parkside stuff has a 3 year warranty so well over the legally required UK 1 year. France should be the same.

it may be worth sliding the sleeve back on the ‘earth’ clamp it wouldn’t be the first time someone has failed to remove the cable insulation before crimping.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Martyn.

Why did you connect the earth clamp to the central heating pipe and a ‘mill vive’ (vice?) on a concrete floor?

The earth clamp should connect directly to the pieces of metal you want to join.

 

Martin.

[blowlamp]

On blowlamp Said:

Martyn.

Why did you connect the earth clamp to the central heating pipe and a ‘mill vive’ (vice?) on a concrete floor?

The earth clamp should connect directly to the pieces of metal you want to join.

 

Martin.

Martyn,

I’m interested too. Give the instructions a good read and yes check all the wired connections. Also you have quite a few controls on the front panel, are they set correctly?

Tony

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Don’t assume the tool is faulty, first.

I struggle to use these things too but more lack of practice, and physically shaky hands, than anything else.

The Parkside range is not for trade use but is generally of fair DIY quality, so examine how you are using it first. Do you know anyone with more expertise, who can try using your welder, firstly to determine it actually works, secondly to help you learn to weld?

 

The joint faces must be clean, bare steel. The arc may cut through light grease or very thin scale but not very well and the weld quality will be poor.

The welding “earth” is not really earthing in a proper electrical-installation sense, although on the earth side of the plant. Instead, see it as simply the return path for the welding current. In this context “earth” is a rather misleading term.

That connection must be to the work itself, on a clean bare area of metal. The spring-clips usually fitted are not the best type of high-current contacts but normally cope if the contact-points themselves firmly grip clean steel.

(My larger welder has lost its spring-clamp but still has the big crimped eye on the lead, and I hold that to the work with a small G-clamp, or a nut and bolt through a convenient hole.)

Industrial steel-fabricators seem sometimes to use steel benches and rely on those for the return, but they are using much beefier equipment than we do.

 

Letting the wire touch the work may also account for some difficulties: it helps strike the arc but if the wire is not kept at a constant distance from the weld pool (the bit I find hard) the usual result is a failed arc and a long piece of wasted wire. With my wobbly hands my fault produces a tiny spark and the wire stuck to the steel.

A tip a former professional metalworker gave me, is to rest the torch-holding arm on the other, as close as safely possible to the weld area; for maximum stability and control. That does depend on using a mask with headband, not those frankly inadequate shields typically sold with “supermarket” welders.

(I use a self-darkening mask, but find I need strong, preferably daylight, on the work to be able to see the joint before strking the arc.)

From which, incidentally, if you intend a lot of welding do not expose any bare skin to the direct glare. It’s not the heat that’s the real danger, but the powerful UV radiation from the arc.

 

Also note once you’ve mastered squirting molten steel at the joint and building up a nice neat fillet, that the success of a weld depends also on the grade of steel. Plain mild steel is fine but the alloys not necessarily so. Particularly, of the common ones, lead added for machineability embrittles the weld.

Do not try to weld zinc-plated / galvanised steel. The zinc poisons the weld, and its vapour poisons you. If you really must weld such material, e.g. for a repair, remove the plating from an area around the joint.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, being pedantic, it should not be called an earth clamp at all, as it shouldn’t be connected to the earth. The correct term is return clamp on the return lead. Heaven knows why you even connected it to the central heating pipe, because if it had struck up, you would’ve probably burnt a hole or two in the pipe and had a flood of water everywhere. If it doesn’t work after setting it up correctly, then as been said, it is probably faulty, and should be returned for exchange or refund.

Although, the return clamp should be connected to the work for best results, it should still work okay if your work is on a clean steel bench, with the clamp, clamped onto it in a suitable place. There are different rules for a work place, especially if you are working on large fabrications with other people who are on the same job.

Regards Nick.

[cogdobblerParticipant @cogdobbler]

Sticking the earth clamp onto a mill vice on the concrete floor indicates you have not read and fully understood the instruction manual. Go back and give it a good read, cover to cover, several times. Then go through it step by step to set up your machine. If you are one of those who insist “reading is not my learning style”, there are plenty of videos on YouTube, but you still need to read the manual specific to your machine.

Pay particular attention to how you install the liner and power wires to the gun at one end, and connect the power wire to the terminal inside the welder at the other. No connectee no sparkee. There is usually two wires for the trigger swtich on the gun, and a third power wire for your welding current proper. Make sure they are all connected correctly at both ends.

And of course make sure you have the little brass nozzle screwed in where the wire comes out of the gun, the right size nozzle for your wire. It is where the power meets the wire, so without it not much happens.

And make sure you pull the trigger in fully when you want to strike an arc. Some can be a bit hard.

[Martyn Nutland 1Participant @martynnutland1]

Very many thanks for all the advice. Will try again. Thanks again.

 

Martyn

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Martyn –

You are lucky here: lots of people here to advise each other!

I wonder how many DIY-ers buy kit like this from shops like Lidl and Aldi, but have limited practical experience, no-one locally to help them practically, no pool of remote advisors; so end up very disappointed with their make or mend attempts. Or worse… damaging it, the work-piece or even themselves.

They might find help on You-Tube etc., but without at least some prior knowledge that can be risky. There are good videos that will help, but many that at best demonstrate experts using factory-size machinery, and at worst show bad, even unsafe, practices

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

Martyn, where are you in France?
(I’m in the Bouche du Rhone, 13760)

Simon

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

I’m a bit late to this party Martin, but if you had the standard instruction manual with the machine maybe only in french +german + other languages and maybe not in english, I note that this happens frequently in France as some products are not sold in the UK.

Here is the manual for that machine in english from page 26 onwards.

https://www.manuals.co.uk/parkside/pfds-33-b3/manual?p=26

The offered warranty from Parkside is 3 years, the minimum legal warranty in an EU country is 2 years.

Hope this helps !!

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

Dear Howard

Very many thanks for going to the trouble to print the english version of the manual for me, your kind helpfulness is greatly appreciated. Quite frankly, I was a bit put off by the tone of some of the responses to my initial post which seemed to imply I was some kind of dangerous idiot!

You are absolutely right; the manual is in german only. Had there been a french text I would have had enough of the language to manage, but I have no german.

Things have moved on a bit since my post, thanks to a British friend who has a house near here.

As I myself suspected the problem was with the ‘earth’, although, as was pointed out, that is not the correct term, which is something I did learn!

The only difficulty now is my technique. I can stick bits of scrap steel together but the weld itself is atrocious, made up mainly of tiny beads. I’m practising with varying speeds of wire feed, amperage, nozzle inclination and rate of travel. It’s not as easy as it looks!

Thanks once again for your kindness.

Martyn

 

 

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Martyn, Now we know it works. It’s a MIG, you do have gas ? or are you using a gasless machine, if so it is NOT strictly a mig. Co2 from your friendly bar owner will work fine though you will need a regulator. The quality of the torch and feeder will not be of the highest . Make sure you have the feed roller set up for the wire size your using, 0.6 or 0.8mm some have both size grooves and you just take it off turn it round and refit. Set the pressure on the feed roller high or max and keep the tube and torch as straight as possible in use, this makes a HUGE difference ! Your contact tip must also be the right size for the wire.

The metal must be clean/ground off, no rust or millscale. And it will take a while to get the settings right, current, wire speed and gas flow.

NEVER leave the reel of wire on the machine ! Take it off and store in the house or better the airing cupboard ! If it gets damp it will be useless EVEN THE MEREST hint of rust on the wire will make life hard or even impossible for a skilled man and a learner will just give up, the more so on a hobby machine. Good luck. Noel.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Martyn, so what was the problem with the “earth” .

So we can help,  are you using gas less wire or MIG wire with CO2/Argon mix. The nozzle approach is different for each type.

Bob

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

Martyn – gasless mig manual technique is different to mig gas shield technique.

Looking at joining two parts together with the join stretching away from you:-

Using gasless, you start at the top and pull the torch toward you to keep the melted slag on top of the weld to protect it until it has cooled off and can be removed.

Using gas shield, you would start at the bottom and push the torch away from you to keep the gas shield protecting the weld.

Hope this helps !!

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

Hello Everybody

Thank you very much indeed for all your advice and guidance. Greatly appreciated.

It is a gasless set and the good news is it works fine.

The funamental problem I had was not realising the return clamp had to be attached to the workpiece! I had watched a lot of Youtube instructional videos and some of the demonstrators showed it being clamped elsewhere e.g. to the table. My friend down-the-road who gave me a ‘tutorial’ clamped to my two pieces of scrap and – voila – sizzles and sparks galore.

Some of the points you all have explained I had discovered but some I did not know about. I’m  addressing all these supplementary issues diligently so say..

Thank you all once again.

Martyn

 

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

As a reader, but non-contributor, to this thread, can I thank you for letting us know that the conundrum got sorted.  So many times, someone poses a question, gets guidance and advice, then is never heard from again or fails to let us know the outcome – good or bad.  Very frustrating!

John

[John Hinkley]

On John Hinkley Said:

As a reader, but non-contributor, to this thread, can I thank you for letting us know that the conundrum got sorted.  So many times, someone poses a question, gets guidance and advice, then is never heard from again or fails to let us know the outcome – good or bad.  Very frustrating!

John

Agreed 100%

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