Innovations in the last 100 published Model Engineering articles

[LukerParticipant @luker]

Hi Gentlemen, I’ve updated an article I wrote for ME some time back with new ideas and methods for live steam design and workshop techniques. If you follow the link below you can see the updated article (free to view).

https://www.patreon.com/posts/137384103

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Maybe another up date needed to include the use of 3D metal printed parts in place of traditional castings?

The average new comer is likely to be computer literate so more able to do the CAD work but may not have space or money to set up for casting from 3D patterns so just ordering a metal print over the net would have big advantages for them. Same for old hands who may not want to get into casting or are unable to find a reliable foundry but could make use of metal printing.

Then there is CNC, the current “makers” may well have a small gantry type machine which would give far better surface finish than a 3D print so no need to spend time getting rid of those layer lines. Or just skip the casting process altogether and cut from solid.

[LukerParticipant @luker]

Professionally I’ve had a look at 3D metal printing for a specific application. There’s more to it than just CAD. Depending on the design; you might need to do rather complex thermal contraction simulations. Sadly the printers don’t always have this capability. As a rule of thumb if an equivalent casting requires specific methoding then the 3D print would likely need to be checked before printing. For the most part, I suspect our little parts will be fine. Incidentally its much cheaper here, something to look at…

Personally I like ‘scratch building’; mixing my own metals, making everything. My personal philosophy(or definition if you like) is to ensure no part goes directly from ‘a package’ to the model. For example, 3D printing patterns is fine because that’s not the final part. DFX laser cutting same argument. CNC: I’m on the fence here, not sure I would ever invest in a computer taking away something I enjoy. This ‘philosophy’ forces me to make my own gauges, steam fittings, injectors etc. I wonder how many people can claim scratch built projects with the above ‘definition’?

It makes sense that off-the-shelf assemblies will be more common as the average lifestyle pushes the instant gratification philosophy. Sadly the knowledge and personal development gained from walking through the entire build process is lost.

[achParticipant @ach]

Im 16 and from my point of view I believe model engineering is seen by other people my age as old fashioned and lame, which is a shame because creating is one of the most rewarding things that we as humans can do. Soon no ones going to be able to make anything besides having 3d printers or CNC machines help because the knowledge will be lost. Also lathes, milling machines etc. aren’t cheap, and even second hand ones are either unusably worn out (or will be soon) or way to big, loud, unsafe (exposed belts, gears, lack of footbrake sometimes, electric motor may be a bit sketchy) when we want to buy the latest phone, clothes, drive nice cars. Affordable desktop cnc or manual milling machines and lathes combined with modern technics would influence more people to have a go 🙂

[Luker]

On Luker Said:

Professionally I’ve had a look at 3D metal printing for a specific application. There’s more to it than just CAD. Depending on the design; you might need to do rather complex thermal contraction simulations. Sadly the printers don’t always have this capability. As a rule of thumb if an equivalent casting requires specific methoding then the 3D print would likely need to be checked before printing. For the most part, I suspect our little parts will be fine. Incidentally its much cheaper here, something to look at…

Personally I like ‘scratch building’; mixing my own metals, making everything. My personal philosophy(or definition if you like) is to ensure no part goes directly from ‘a package’ to the model. For example, 3D printing patterns is fine because that’s not the final part. DFX laser cutting same argument. CNC: I’m on the fence here, not sure I would ever invest in a computer taking away something I enjoy. This ‘philosophy’ forces me to make my own gauges, steam fittings, injectors etc. I wonder how many people can claim scratch built projects with the above ‘definition’?

It makes sense that off-the-shelf assemblies will be more common as the average lifestyle pushes the instant gratification philosophy. Sadly the knowledge and personal development gained from walking through the entire build process is lost.

Yes it would no doubt depend on the part in question, so far all the parts I have had 3DMP done of have not requited anything more than my basic CAD work, same for all the castings I have done either CAD or CNC work towards the  patterns. The most recent ones have had the advantage of no cores and associated core-boxes being needed to form the internal cavities. This would also be a possibility using suitable filament such as Polycast which is almost ash free when burnt out.

I’m not sure where you are comparing “here” to but if the UK or Europe then that is quite expensive compared to the far east. Also with a bit of tweaking of the part and making the most of the minimum job costs you can get some very resonably priced parts compared to a casting, again does depend on the individual part. I’m not sure if you saw this post but a good example of better quality and better price than a commercial casting.

I too have gone down the scratch building route as I verymuch enjoy the design and doing something lest common and you get a bigger buzz at the end knowing you designed it right rather than just following the old build articles or these days multiple forum builds or Youtube vids. I still very much enjoy handle twiddling etc so will use that to cut from solid or fabricate a lot of parts, the CNC may get used for one or two parts where it is simply the best tool for a specific job and I am also happy to buy in laser cut, 3D printed and cast parts again where they suit. I know of others who have sold all their manual machines but get great enjoyment just doing it all with a CNC.

It is something I have to think about a bit more these days. At the design stage I may draw something differently so it better suits being made on the CNC or include draft if it is to be cast or if it is an engine I feel I may want to have published or just freely share the design then I have to bear in mind that most other builders will not have a CNC. On the other hand I have sent out just STEP files of a complete engine assembly and the builders have made their own choice of methods, altering the STEP files of the individual parts to suit.

That kind of brings us onto what an individual may want out of the hobby. Taking your like for live steam there are those who may scratch build everything to finely represent the full size prototype even if at the end of the (very long) day it is not actually that practical to run. At the other end of the scale there are those who just want to get on the track or rally field who may well find the best route for then is a kit build or just bying secondhand.

However those that may buy off the shelf at first could well find that they want to modify, improve or repair that initial purchase so there is hope of attracting them into the home workshop hobby as it does not have to specifically be the traditional model engineering subjects. I myself got my first lathe due to wanting it for making and moding RC models not because I wanted to make steam engines, that came later.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Maybe another up date needed to include the use of 3D metal printed parts in place of traditional castings?

The average new comer is likely to be computer literate so more able to do the CAD work but may not have space or money to set up for casting from 3D patterns so just ordering a metal print over the net would have big advantages for them. Same for old hands who may not want to get into casting or are unable to find a reliable foundry but could make use of metal printing.

Then there is CNC, the current “makers” may well have a small gantry type machine which would give far better surface finish than a 3D print so no need to spend time getting rid of those layer lines. Or just skip the casting process altogether and cut from solid.

 

I have one being written. I’ve been sent some initial stuff and it’s impressive.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Good to see someone well below the forum’s average age speaking up for machining skills.

I hope that more makers will realise how many avenues open up when you combine machined parts with 3D printed ones or embedded electronics, for example.

I recently 3D printed a 3 1/2″ gauge cement wagon, but turned the wheels from steel blanks, for example.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Another thought.

Despite the fact that we do have model engineering competitions, the really important competition is with yourself – can I do more or better next time? Can I learn a new skill? Can I find my own solution to this problem?

Neil

[ach]

On ach Said:

Im 16 and from my point of view I believe model engineering is seen by other people my age as old fashioned and lame, which is a shame because creating is one of the most rewarding things that we as humans can do. Soon no ones going to be able to make anything besides having 3d printers or CNC machines help because the knowledge will be lost

You make some very good points but unfortunately

Affordable desktop cnc or manual milling machines and lathes

just aren’t feasible. 😔

Or at least affordable on anything but quite a decent wage.  The cheapest reputable supplier of Chinese mini lathes in the UK is Amadeal and the cheapest lathe they offer is £585.

No offence to Amadeal (this model is about the bottom of the heap as far as lathes go), but the buyer of this lathe is going to need to do a fair bit of fettling and adjustment out of the box to get it to work acceptably well (it can be done, mind you).  And Amadeal’s cheapest mill is £725.

If you want to see how much a good quality benchtop lathe made to Western standards, costs (built by workers who are paid proper wages and sold by a company that looks after the health and safety of its workers, and sticks to the law in regard to protecting the environment, and pays its taxes), the lathes built by Myford give a good idea.

Or they would, if you could see the cost of new Myfords on their site 🙄😄, Myford don’t seem to be offering any new lathes right now.  Suffice to say though, IIRC, the cheapest are multiple thousands.

Decent quality machine tools are complicated and expensive to make.  Even the cheapest Chinese mini lathes, despite being somewhat “unfinished”, have to be made somewhat manually, to a standard that you wouldn’t find in normal consumer goods like say a TV or microwave.

For most young people, who don’t have the money to own machine tools, their best bet would be to go along to a local “maker’s space” or model engineering club.

Of course that brings up other questions about how well model engineering clubs welcome in young people and develop their interests in hobby machining or model engineering. 😉

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Sorry Lurker this is a bit off your original topic:

Paraphrasing above “affordable ……lathes ……just aren’t feasible”.

We must get away from the idea that you have to have a brand new lathe with tenths accuracy to make anything. We are not working to space and defence precision standards to make a little steam engine to be proud of capable of running a little boat and all home made just like our grandfathers did in the ‘fifties.
I have seen several old lathes in ebay in the last month go for under £200 and even without cleaning off the rust adequate to get into the hobby. Wish ebay had been around in my teens instead of just Exchange and Mart.

Neil – in G1 we are showing that even PLA is good enough for wheels, though a bit of weight from steel helps. However the type of plastic does matter a lot for engine adhesion.

On another forum someone has detailed the building (of a 3 1/2in rebuilt Bulleid West Country) including using 3D printed metal, lost wax printed patterns, and even actual printed plastic. Some very complex frame parts that would have been a nightmare as fabrications or manual machinings so normally get simplified in models. I think this model is going to be at the Newton Abbott show.

 

[Neil Wyatt]

On  Neil Wyatt Said:

I have one being written. I’ve been sent some initial stuff and it’s impressive.

If that is the one Julie has mentioned then it will be worth the wait.

Maybe it is time to have an engine build article in the mag with links to .STP files of certain parts so that anyone wanting to build could 3D print or CNC cut in a material of their choice. I’d be happy to do that for the engine I mentioned the other week along with drawings and description for traditional methods.

[LukerParticipant @luker]

No worries Bazyle. As you’ve probably read I’m passionate about helping youngsters in this hobby and engineering in general. My two cents:

You can build amazing things with very little/ old – broken/ unfinished Chinese reject machinery that costs less than a few nights work + tips in a decent restaurant. I know because that was my path when I was your age.

Failing that; make friends/ join a club etc. where you have access to machines. Read!

Careful whose advice you follow; understand that some people have built models and others have not. Normally the people who are discouraging are reflecting their own inadequacy. Read!

Most people also tend to overestimate their abilities when asked about a specific topic, I learnt very quickly to ask ‘How did you do so and so’ instead of ‘Can you do so and so’. In that same vein make sure any literature/ article you read is backed by the person actually completing the project; otherwise look at it as an opinion piece, nothing more. Read!

Uncompleted models or failed projects are because people quit, it really is that simple. If you persist and don’t give up there is no chance of you not finishing.

Then lastly: Its retro – not old fashioned, and that makes it cool 😉 … Keep building young man, don’t let anyone dissuade you!

[southernchapParticipant @southernchap]

Normally the people who are discouraging are reflecting their own inadequacy.

If that was referring to my post, I was not being discouraging regarding starting model engineering or any kind of ‘making’.

I was suggesting that finding a machine tool capable of doing reasonable work (either new or used) for the kind of money available to anybody not with a decent regular salary is a hard ask.  That’s not even mentioning the extra money for tooling required.

Trying to learn to machine, even to a hobby level of precision, on a machine that may require significant work to bring up to standard is, to borrow another member’s phrase, a miserable experience.

I actually suggested that the young fella look for a local club where they may be able to use wel.maintained club machines yo learn on.

That’s not being discouraging, that’s being realistic.

Too many old men who are now financially comfortable, claiming that anyone can afford to have their own workshop.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

There is also the need for anyone picking up a lathe to know how to put right any problems, with les spractical subjects being tought in schools those coming into the hobby may be less able than “old men” who did metal work at school and served an apprentiship in a relevent field.

As to Cost, plenty seem to be able to afford the latest Iphone , the same money would get them a Minilathe. Or stop buying coffee from a shop and put that years expense to other uses soon adds up at a few quid a cup.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Some very good work is done on old lathes. (Many did not have graduated dials, but the operators produced excellent work, working with callipers and 6″ rules)

I am not suggesting returning to those days. By all means, take advantage of modern machinery and techniques, if we can. But bear in mind the budget. If you have £30K or more to spare, you can work on a modern, durable really high precision machine.

For a newcomer (Probably unsure if they are doing the right thing), £500 maybe a lot to risk, so opt for a very old first machine with limited capabilities, for half that sum. (Sadly, some find out the hard way the ridks of of an old machine after many careless owners.  There are sharks in many seas) Having bought measuring equipment, and gained  experience, they will want to progress to a machine that is larger amd better equipped.  Eventually, they may well feel the need for a brand new machine.

In this way they will have learned; and helped to sustain the hobby, helping every one, by maintaing a supply of inexpensive machines, and trade for the suppliers.

An ex colleague can produce work that is far better than mine, on a lathe that is over 100 years old. (He nade an elbow engine that works beautifully, on a pre 1920s Drummond)

With a 2003 machine, I cannot match his skill.

It is good to see young folk coming into the hobby; in that way it will continue.

For anyone, there is an enormous sense of satisfaction from seeing parts being completed and movement towards the end product.

Despite the many advantages of CNC, therer will still be a need for “handle twirlers”, certainly in in the commercial world if small quantities are required, or at short notice. (Another ex colleague has, several times, kept a local factory going by producing, overnight, a part needed to repair a broken down machine.)

There is room for all in the hobby.

A newcomer, of any age, initially does not have to have a completely equipped workshop. It has taken me 40 years to get to where I am now, starting from a basic Myford ML7 – which was a MAJOR advance from a pistol drll held in a vice using a bolt as an arbor.

Often, it is better to learn the skills on a machine lacking all the latest features. The basics give an understanding of what is going on, which enables more sophisticated machines to be used to a greater proportion of their capability. In the first week of my apprenticeship, I thought that 0.005″ was a suitable cut. Within a year I was removing 3/8″ a side!

We need to encourage newcomers of all ages. They will gain a lot of pleasure (And skills) and help the rest of us by providing trade for our suppliers. The trade, and the publicity of Shows will help to keep the hobby alive.

Let us help and encourage newcomers, of all ages, and help them to get the best from their equipment, whether OLD or fresh out of the box. Without guidance a newconer can produce scrap on new machine quicker than an old hand on a venerable much used machine.

Howard

 

 

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