Flexispeed main bearings lubrication and drill arbor

[Julian TolleyParticipant @juliantolley83108]

Can anyone advise on what weight oil I should be using for the bearings on a Flexispeed lathe please

I'm guessing they are plain bronze bearings….has anyone replaced them? How and any advise on sizes please.

I've been trying to find a MT0 drill arbor and sourced one via eBay but it sits so far out it ends with a lot of play. Has anyone got shots of their tailstock set up with a drill arbor please.

[Julian TolleyParticipant @juliantolley83108]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't get fussed about it. Just use oil like you would have on your bike as a kid, stuff like 3in1. Don't use hydraulic oil which is just water that doesn't rust, nor EP90 'cos it stinks.

The MT0 problem affects a number of small lathes. Even regular bigger tapers can have the problem of stick out as it only takes a small difference in manufacturing accuracy to cause quite a big offset in a taper. You may have to live with it until you can make your own, or risk trying one from another source in the hope that it didn't come off hte same batch.

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

I use a straight 30 weight oil on my Flexispeed's headstock. I fitted a pair of small drip feeders and fill those. It seems to be work all right. I did use 3-in-1, but it seem to run out of the headstock too quickly and fly everywhere. The 30 weight is less prone to this.

I can post a picture of the tailstock and drill arbour later, but, like you, I have failed to find a commercial fitting that will fit. I was lucky that an arbour came with my lathe.

Regards,

James.

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Cowells supply 0MT drill chuck arbors – see near the bottom of their price list

Cowells price List

These have the shortened 0MT taper to reduce overhang.

Jim.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Some tapers are made to the correct taper but different diameters so you can get more or less stick out. I would look for secondhand ones. If a drill chuck wobbles on freshly faced round stock the centres may be offset

MT SIZE	D1 (MM)	D2 (MM)	L2 (MM)	TAPER (ΜM/MM)
0	9.045	6.401	50.8	52.051

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Does this help?

James.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

straight 30 oil from a lawn mower dealer, do not use any EP oils on bronze .

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

I have always used a straight 30 grade oil for the bearings on my Flexispeed.

Unless your machine has been modified, the mandrel runs directly in the cast iron of the headstock. Because of this the maximum mandrel speed should not be too high, the instruction leaflet mentions 1000 rpm, mine runs at a maximum of 1340 rpm and I have had no problem.

Don't wind the adjusting screws down too tightly, only enough to take out the play, you don't want to break anything.

The Flexispeed uses the small end of the 0 morse taper for the mandrel and tailstock. I think Cowells might be the same, but you would need to check.

Neil

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Bazyle on 18/12/2021 10:18:15:

…… Don't use hydraulic oil which is just water that doesn't rust, nor EP90 'cos it stinks.

…….

I think Bazyle must be referring to water glycol. Normal (mineral) hydraulic oil is what Myford recommend for ML7 and S7, 32 grade if I remember correctly. You can get it in small quantities from Caldo in St Helens, but if you're near an agricultural engineers they might part with a litre if you take your own bottle

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

No I was referring to hydraulic oil as used in JCBs etc. but was perhaps a bit glib as I was just trying to emphasise that you want a thicker oil to stay in place. Hydraulic oil is thin so it can be pumped easily and fast to move pistons and provide cooling and is way too thin to use for bearings. A few lathes, normally industrial types, with gearheads also have an oil pump so need to be able to pump the oil but most hobby lathes aren't like that. Also automatic gearbox oil is too thin because it too is intended to be pumped for cooling and to move the gear change pistons.

[Julian TolleyParticipant @juliantolley83108]

Many thanks to everyone for their advice and knowledge. Please excuse the state of the lathe – frankly it had been buried as I was so disillusioned with the accuracy I could achieve given the tailstock taper problems. I will certainly investigate the heavier oils as the main front bearing drains very quickly (admittedly using engine oil!). The arbor is a real problem and will investigate Cowells. I have attached 2 pictures showing the problems as so accurately described in the replies. The arbor uses the first half on lt – to about 7mm diameter – so half sticking out on a normal MT0. Once again many thanks for your help and knowledge.

[Julian TolleyParticipant @juliantolley83108]

So Cowells are pretty useless. No catalogue, no online specification just a price. Tried emailing them but no reply….are they still in business or is it just a dead website. Anyway was considering ordering a few specially made but then I wonder just how much one could ream out the existing tailstock fitting using a hand MT0 reamer – has anyone tried this? If I could deepen the MT0 taper it would allow access to normal MT0 fittings.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

An MT reamer is only good for cleaning up a taper, it will struggle to remove any amount of metal. As for oiling, SAE 10 or ISO32, 2 specs but one oil, hydraulic or light engine oil, NOT a multigrade, as recommended by myford ! Happy Christmas, Noel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Julian,

If you are thinking of modifying the tailstock, you might consider replicating the lever-feed system used by Cowells on the 90CW which takes 8mm horological collets … it seems better proportioned, and likely more appropriate, than using a drill chuck.

… illustrated here, along with lots of other interesting information: **LINK**

https://watchmaking.weebly.com/cowells-90cw.html

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/12/2021 21:42:02

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/12/2021 21:38:12:

Julian,

If you are thinking of modifying the tailstock, you might consider replicating the lever-feed system used by Cowells on the 90CW which takes 8mm horological collets … it seems better proportioned, and likely more appropriate, than using a drill chuck.

… illustrated here, along with lots of other interesting information: **LINK**

https://watchmaking.weebly.com/cowells-90cw.html

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/12/2021 21:42:02

I started down this route on my Flexispeed at one point. I bought a tailstock arbour from Peatol Tools to replace the entire arbour in the Flexispeed tailstock. They are both the same outside diameter and the Peatol part fits the Flexispeed snugly. It cost very little, has a dead centre turned ground on the end and a thread for a standard drill chuck. I never completed it, simply because I managed to cure the problem that I had had with the original taper arbour. However, it might be cheaper that a Cowells part.

Regards,

James.

 

Edited By James Alford on 23/12/2021 10:33:18

[Julian TolleyParticipant @juliantolley83108]

So thought I would update on the problem of the Flexispeed tailstock half MT0 taper. Unfortunately the owner of the Peatol lathe which was suggested may fir has wound down his activities – all power to the retirement. With little alternative I bought a set of MT0 hand reamers from China but have been pleasantly surprised by their accuracy and the way their edges have stayed bright. The pair of reamers cost just £10.88 including shipping. I placed the rough cut reamer in the chuck and used the tailstock handwheel to advance the shaft while hand turning the chuck. I took some 5 hours spread over weeks. Having managed to angle grind my wrist in the summer there is a limit to how much it can take at each session. I now have a tailstock that accepts MT0 and you can see from comparing the pictures just how much of a full MT0 taper sits in. The only obstacle is down the tailstock shaft there is small area that needs to be drilled to increase the depth. I hope this helps others tackle this annoyance with the Flexispeed. First picture shows the reamer and the second is to show the full length of the centre.

Now its useable Ill have to give it a good clean. You can see the plie of chippings from the reaming. Its set up with a small 3 phase motor and phase converter giving a wide speed range.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Axminster only list one 0 MT arbor, to B16

RDG do a range of 0 MT accessories

The only 0 MT taper available from Arc Euro is on a mini live centre.

Otherwise you have along search ahead of you on Google or e bay

howard

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

It is good to hear how you addressed this niggle with the Flexispeed. I would be interested to hear whether the accuracy of the tailstock has been affected by reaming it out. As an observation, there is a threaded hole on the top of the tailstock, just at the front. This should have a screw in it to stop the tailstock barrel from rotating when you are drilling. I found that taking time to make a screw that fitted the slot in the tailstock barrel snugly made a large difference to the ease with which it drilled.

James.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

What's going on with Flexispeed tapers? lathes.co.uk says 'both the headstock and set-over tailstock were equipped with "short" No. 0 Morse taper centres.'

Is "Short No. 0 Morse Taper" a standard size? It's not in any of my books. Machinery's Handbook (20th Edition) lists 'Morse Stub Taper Shanks', which are the same idea, but MT0 stub taper isn't allowed, only MT1 to MT5.

Given the Flexispeed was popular for decades, I'd expect a weird taper to have generated more complaints and work-arounds. Do Flexispeed owners put up with protruding tools, or are "Short MT0" easy to get if you know where to buy them.

lathes.co.uk say the Cowells ME is an 'almost unchanged' Perris PL90, which was based on the Flexispeed. Perris tapers are simply described as 'MT0', not 'Short MT0', so it's possible Cowells tapers are true MT0. Can a Cowells ME owner confirm – depth of hole 2¹⁄₃₂" or what?

Dave

[Julian TolleyParticipant @juliantolley83108]

Hi Dave. If you look higher up my thread you will see the short MT0 used on the Flexispeed is annoyingly the smaller part of the MT0 so you can or just cut down a full MT0. While I haven't yet measured how poor the accuracy has become by hand reaming I know it will be sufficient for my use.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 14/02/2022 11:29:53:

lathes.co.uk say the Cowells ME is an 'almost unchanged' Perris PL90, which was based on the Flexispeed. Perris tapers are simply described as 'MT0', not 'Short MT0', so it's possible Cowells tapers are true MT0. Can a Cowells ME owner confirm – depth of hole 2¹⁄₃₂" or what?

I measured a Cowells dead centre (half centre actually) . The fat end of the taper is a smidge over 8mm. The taper is 31mm long and the Morse tapered section sticks out of the tailstock by a smidge over 2mm.

If the internal taper has been reamed then I'd expect it to sit further into the barrel.

I had no issues getting hold of Colin at Cowells by phone and his prices for dead centres seemed reasonable to me when I wanted some. I have not tried contacting him for a good while though. I don't think he has a huge workforce to cover the phone so I'd suggest that you keep trying.

Regards, Andy

[Richard BParticipant @richardb44403]

Cowells and Perris have the same taper (well mine do).

Cowells in their literature (1980's) call their centres 'modified 0 Morse taper'

i spoke to Colin numerous times last year as he was having a few delays getting milling collets made at the time – now all sorted for my needs. Don't think they supply any bits threaded 14×1.5mm anymore.

Richard B.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I have been feeding the plain steel/bronze spindle bearings of the museum's Smart & Brown model A 5W30 synthetic motor oil for years now with no adverse effects. I believe that modern oils are lightyears ahead of the oils available when the lathe was new, and easy to get hold of.

[Author]

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