Cloud storage

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

How do you access your cloud data if you are somewhere with no Internet?

Chris Gunn

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Richard Simpson Said:

…

I currently have a BIG downer against Microsoft as I have two computers running Windows 10, which will no longer be supported after this month.  One is a very high spec gaming laptop, that is still fast today despite being nine years old and the other is my wife’s desktop, which again meets the speed requirement but it isn’t dual core. …

I’m not pleased with Microsoft either, but have to acknowledge their right to make a fair profit.  Unfortunately, Microsoft have a long history of unfair business practice, some of which cost them billions in fines.   However, they can’t be expected to support aging computers forever.  Be aware businesses typically plan to replace laptops after 3 years, desktops after 5, and servers after 7.

The problem with older computers and Windows 11 isn’t speed.  It’s security and functional shortcomings in the boot process.    When power is applied the computer doesn’t jump straight into the operating system.  It starts by executing a built-in program, the “Basic Input-Output System”, or BIOS.  The BIOS identifies what peripherals are available and passes all necessary technical details information to the operating system.  The O/S also “bootstraps” by loading a sequence of short programs, each of which builds to the point, much later, where a login prompt appears.

As the BIOS has issues, it’s being replaced by the “Unified Extensible Firmware Interface” (UEFI).   And, because the security of the operating system depends on the firmware, Microsoft decided that Windows 11 would only work with UEFI.   Therefore Windows 11 won’t launch on a computer that doesn’t have UEFI.   (There may be ways to hack Windows so it does.  Are they secure?)

As transition from BIOS to UEFI will take years, recent computers often support both.   Worth checking your computer’s  firmware settings to see if UEFI is available.   If so, the machine may be Windows 11 compatible after all.

UEFI is not simple.

In a domestic installation, BIOS is good enough because we run on a local network protected by the router & ISP from the evils of the internet: we can keep it simple.  Corporates have a much bigger problem: their large scale deployments are exposed to much more serious risks.  They need UEFI, and because they spend big money, Microsoft, Intel and others respond to their needs. The rest of us are carried along with the tide.

Dave

Dave,

Not sure I agree with all points.  I have just read an article only this morning that estimates there are currently in the region of 400 million computers currently running Windows 10 which are not currently able to run Windows 11.  While it may be easy for the IT industry to try to justify this by giving all the technical reasons and relating them to security requirements, the bottom line is very simply that Microsoft should never have come up with an operating system that would not run on existing machines.  I realise that big companies may be prepared to change hardware and software on a regular basis but there are equally many large organisations and most small businesses that simply cannot afford to do so.  In the USA the Public Interest Research Group delivered a letter at the beginning of October signed by 590 businesses, 83 state and local elected officials, 382 repair businesses and non profit organisations from around the world, 19 libraries and school officials, and 49 environmental and consumer advocacy organizations asking Microsoft to reconsider cutting support for Windows 10.

The trouble is that we have allowed technology and the tech firms to kid us that this rate of development is necessary because it is in their interest for us to believe that.  I think most of us come from a time when expensive items were looked after, maintained and taken care of as we all tried to get the most life out of them.  Nowadays we seem to have fallen into the trap of simply shrugging our shoulders and saying, “That’s the way it is”, while bemoaning the fact that we are destroying the planet.

While it is easy to justify what we are doing, what the real challenge is though is progression under a genuine fully joined up philosophy where environmental responsibility is the driving force and not profit.  I agree Microsoft have had their wrists slapped in the past for very good reason but this upgrade to Windows 11 proves that it has had zero effect on them.

And if anyone wishes to continue trying to justify that Windows 11 is the only way forward then, quite simply, Microsoft should have continued support for Windows 10.  I don’t think for a second that would be too much of an imposition for them.  A three year old machine may be redundant in some people’s mind but it most definitely isn’t in mine and I’m sure it isn’t to a very large percentage of users.

[Chris Gunn]

On Chris Gunn Said:

How do you access your cloud data if you are somewhere with no Internet?

Chris Gunn

Or like the many people currently living in rural areas where there aren’t enough profits in supporting businesses and private users so internet connections are slow and unreliable and power outages are fairly frequent.  My internet connection slows down noticeably when all the kids get home from school and during school holidays.  They made a big song and dance about connecting the nearest village to fibre a couple of years ago but it still comes from there to here via a copper wire, which gets knocked around by all the trees overgrowing it!

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

I got cloud storage with my newish computer and windows 365, but still back up my most important stuff to a USB stick regularly, and also to a remote hard drive. I keep my pictures on another remote hard drive. I feel I am in control of my data, irrespective of any 3rd party. If I were to lose a file I can pick it up from the cloud, but I am not reliant on it.

Another question, how much of the cloud is taken up by all the frivolous pictures we all take, our cats dogs, the plate of fish and chips we had the other night, you know the stuff I mean. We can click away to our hearts content, and many do, without a thought to where the pics end up, and the majority is not worth saving, but it gets saved anyway. Has anyone done any research on this ?

Chris Gunn.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well I don’t used the cloud, and I don’t intend too. I have a few external hard drives, and everything is stored on them, and duplicated at least twice, as even external drives can fail. With all the big companies that have been hacked just lately, it makes one wonder how safe the cloud is.

Regards Nick.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

UEFI and other “developments” worry me.
How many people realise that the interface chips in most PC’s have a CPU (microcomputer) in them taht is active even when the PC is “off”? and that this CPU can access the network?
Unless you unplug the PC (and remove the battery in a laptop if it’s not fixed) he machine can “phone home”

Robert.

[Richard Simpson]

On Richard Simpson Said:

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Richard Simpson Said:

…

I currently have a BIG downer against Microsoft as I have two computers running Windows 10, which will no longer be supported after this month.  One is a very high spec gaming laptop, that is still fast today despite being nine years old and the other is my wife’s desktop, which again meets the speed requirement but it isn’t dual core. …

I’m not pleased with Microsoft either, but…

 

,,, and because they spend big money, Microsoft, Intel and others respond to their needs. The rest of us are carried along with the tide.

Dave

Dave,

Not sure I agree with all points.  …

It’s not about agreeing, it’s about understanding.  Unfortunately, the world is driven by commercial needs, represented by ‘the market’, which is driven by profitability.  Profitability depends on fashion, technology, resources, investment, labour costs, and many other factors.  The world changes rapidly, and there is nothing to be gained by wishing it will stop.  Yesterday is dust.  I bet young Richard ran roughshod over his grandad’s ideas!  Laughing at moustaches, pocket-watches, trams, potties, cobbles, wind-up gramophones, wizard-prang slang, bay rum and rag and bone men!  Not laughing at Charlie Chaplin…

Yes there are a large number of Windows 10 users, but so what!  MS-DOS, Windows 1.n, Windows 3.n, Windows 9.n, Windows-NT, Windows-2000, Windows-XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, rose and fell inconveniencing billions of customers.  Now Windows-10 is end-of-life, and we’re being nudged into Windows-11.  Many of us reluctantly, because W11 offer few benefits and it breaks my privacy rules.

Sadly the world doesn’t care about old chaps living in villages with poor internet connections and elderly computers.  That Richard and I are happy with Windows 10 matters not one jot to the juggernaut.  No-one is kidding anybody about the need for change either, it is fuelled by forces outside our control and comprehension.  Although retired gentlemen can hope nothing need ever change again, the awful truth is global warming, AI, resource shortages, globalisation, and novelties galore are remorseless.  I too desire life to be simple, sadly it isn’t, and there is nothing to be gained by complaining. Quite the opposite: there’s a high risk we just get in the way, delaying urgent change because we don’t understand the need.

Can I recommend Linux!  Does all the basics and is free as in beer and speech. Secure without add-on software.   Not all sweetness and light, three main disadvantages:

• Old dogs learning new tricks!  Linux isn’t a Windows clone. Switching requires effort. (As does moving from W10 to W11)
• Linux doesn’t run all Windows applications, a possible showstopper.  (I need Windows to run Solid Edge)
• Linux does not impose a standard desktop, which might be a surprise! Though based on Ubuntu, Linux Mint is configured to look like Windows 7/10.  Whilst I prefer Ubuntu, new users familiar with Windows don’t care for it.  Look and feel can vary because Linux is open, modifications allowed. Android smart phones are Linux, but their look and feel isn’t like Ubuntu or Windows.  Odd that no-one seems to care!

By the by is your 3 year old machine really Windows 11 incompatible? Check to see if UEFI is available.  If disabled in the BIOS, Windows will tell you the machine is incompatible, even though it’s just a setting…

Dave

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The issue is that W11 requires new hardware at least to run to MS standards. All the other versions of windows would run on the same hardware as the previous version, maybe slower or needing more RAM but you didn’t have to buy new hardware when MS dropped support.
And previous versions of windows have not gone entirely there are still thousands of copies of Windows XP running. Mostly in dedicated applications or hardware but still running. To most users W11 is not even a significant improvement over W10. MS says “Windows 11 offers new productivity features and functionality designed to meet the challenges of the hybrid world. It has a refreshed look and feel that helps you get more done with less stress.”. Nothing there that I want. “but it’s free” Not really If you buy new hardware it come with a new licence the the hardware producer has paid MS for. This seem like a bit of conflict to me. MS effectively giving the hardware manufacturers new sales and they get new licence fees in return.

But Im a cynical old bugger who started off before micrcomputers on Intel 4004, 4040 and Motorolla 6800 based equpment…

Robert

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Why did they have to move the ‘off’ button. It wasn’t broke, so don’t fix it.

To echo SOD I’m not an IT guru, but I ran a laptop with Linux mint without too much trouble until Mr Dell decided it was too old and it disabled itself

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

By the by is your 3 year old machine really Windows 11 incompatible? Check to see if UEFI is available.  If disabled in the BIOS, Windows will tell you the machine is incompatible, even though it’s just a setting…

Dave

Dave,  The first part of the process is to run a Windows diagnostic app, which informed me that the CPU is not compatible.  All I could see is that the speed is fine but I suspect it is a single core processor and Windowss 11 apparently requires a dual core processor.  I’m going to have a chat with a local outlet and look into the cost of upgrading the processor or, failing that, rely on Norton to keep things safe until we decide it is time for a new machine.  I’m afraid EUFI is way beyond me.  Is there as step by step anywhere so I can actually check?

As always extremely interesting.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Richard, I wouldn’t rely on Norton to things safe for too long, it might for a couple of years, but could be sooner.

Regards Nick.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Can you explain a bit further Nick?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Richard, just to say that I had Norton on my Vista laptop, and when MS stopped support that, though I can’t remember exactly how long it was, but it was probably not much longer than two years, when Norton no long supported Vista, and I think they stopped supporting XP in about the same sort of time period when MS stopped supporting that.

Regards Nick.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

It is quite normal that a third-party product will cease support when running on an operating system that is no longer supported – if you can no longer trust the software underneath your own product, any “it doesn’t work” issues quickly become a finger-pointing exercise. Fusion 360 is telling me that it will not be supported on W10 soon although I’m not sure if that will still apply with the European 12-month extension of security support. I suspect that it will very shortly be W11 only.

As for cloud – I’m more paranoid than some but less than others. I use OneDrive for selected data when it suits my way of working but not blindly for all my data. I go to several classes where teaching material is disseminated via Google Drive – horses for courses.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

About a week ago I had a reminder from Norton about my subscription expiring soon. It could be renewed for £89.99. I promptly cancelled it and as expected have now just had two offers, one for Norton 360 Deluxe (5 devices) and 50GB cloud storage at £29.99 or Norton 360 Advanced (10 devices) some extra features and 200GB cloud storage also for £29.99.

Reviews are very good so I will probably go with the Advanced option as we have 7 devices between us including the smartphones.

Colin

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

We have just had an example of when a small fault in the clouds causes mayhem worldwide. Lets hope there is never a big issue with the cloud.

Chris Gunn

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I do my best not to use MS’ so-called “Cloud” – which name it uses disengenuously to make you think it is a part of the Internet as a whole, not Microsoft’s’ own.

This is why I do not and will not trust Mr. Gate’s company:

 

I bought a DELL factory-rebuild that arrives with W10. Fine (ish – I have yet to see any genuine improvements over XP to do exactly the same things, albeit that third-party publishers like IMSI and Alibre write for the latest version of Windoze).

Then MS up-dated it to WIN-11i. I will not call it “up-graded”.

I spotted Change 1 very rapidly: MS had turned what had been a very good data-filing system since its WIN_3 beginnings into a sloppy, slapdash mess making it difficult to archive your own files as you want them.

Especially photographs, presumably because they are more likely to be useful to MS and its commercial customers than any of a private individual’s documents, spreadsheets and CAD drawings. SO…

 

Change 2: My entire photograph directory of many folders, had been reduced to a single, jumbled folder and worse, a number of images had become damaged or vanished entirely. I recovered some from external stores, but found this was all due to MS trying to move them to its blasted “One Drive” gimmick.

Change 3: A childish screen-corner note about the weather appeared so you didn’t need look out of the real window. Actually, it opened a tiled display of a crudely thrown-together jumble of quotes by Microsoft’s MSN “service” from everyone else’s newspapers, broadcasters and advertising agencies.

Worse, the central image was one of my photographs no-one else could have taken. It was of a tree in my back garden, taken purely to ask advice by e-post from a horticulturist friend. Clicking the photo opened an entire gallery of yet more of my photos, picked randomly by the Seattle Cowboys and mixed with what looked like company trade-marks, but all unknown to me.

MS had raided my photo archives, having wrecked their filing system, without my knowledge, let alone permission I would not have given, for its own, unstated purposes.

Now, MS thinks all images are “Pictures” so I created a new directory under a new name and rebuilt my photo archives in that, while also establishing better external copies. One of these independent stores is my previous, WIN-7 computer which also carries a copy of TurboCAD 2019 Deluxe. (The WIN-11 PC I am using for this, carries TC2024 and Alibre Atom, both written only for MS systems.)

 

I do not like or trust MS at all, its near-worldwide monopoly is partly why the Internet is so unsafe; but unfortunately I am not sufficiently IT-skilled to use Linux, and anyway not all third-party software will run on it.

From time to time I examine the software index, deleting or disabling optional MS “features” I neither need nor want; but it will not let you remove Copilot – does not even list it! Most of the guff I have removed is for games, cameras and wirelessly-linked accessories.

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Another second big cloud outage in a week or so, first Amazons AWS, yesterday Microsoft, I lost BT email for a while both times, just inconvenient, is someone targeting these companies in turn?

Can we rely on the cloud? These outages are taking down the users with them,  a problem for a bank, not so much for us, as we can wait for everything to be sorted out I guess

Chris Gunn

[Author]

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