100 great models disposal

100 great models disposal

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  • #820108
    paul rayner
    Participant
      @paulrayner36054

      Hello all. Sad news i’m afraid Harry Barrow passed away a few weeks ago. He was the builder of the prize winning model “Arezzo” landing craft featured in 100 great models back in 2007. Unfortunately with this model being so large approx 4′ long and 1′ wide his son cannot keep it. so it needs a new home. I have suggested the national maritime museum but he is open to other suggestions. It does need a little tlc here and there as a couple of bits have dropped off, but all the parts are there in the tubs. took a few pics below, but they really don’t do it justice, the level of detail is incredible, and everything works too!20251013_18460620251013_18463420251013_18464220251013_18465520251013_18470120251013_18471620251013_18472420251013_18473020251013_18475020251013_184800 regards

      Paul

      #820117
      noel shelley
      Participant
        @noelshelley55608

        My first thoughts are the loss of such a skilled craftsman, my heart goes out to his family !

        The Model should be offered to one of the several D Day museums, Portsmouth, Portland come to mind. Or even the new big museum at Arromanche in France.

        God rest his soul ! Noel.

        #820125
        paul rayner
        Participant
          @paulrayner36054

          Hi Noel.  The model is I believe a modern landing craft built from the the original drawings circa 1985. That’s what I have been informed by his son so I can only go by what he says. They have also 100s of photographs of the original

          Paul

          #820126
          noel shelley
          Participant
            @noelshelley55608

            I’m not sure that being of circa 1985 would be such a problem, last  years D Day clebrations at Arromanche had 2 modern landing craft on the beach ! Another thought would be the tank museum at Bovington, landing craft and tanks go together. How many people looking at it would say 1985 ? Noel.

            Having just spoke to the tank museum at Bovington it will be worth contacting them if the family consider that a suitable place to gift this Truly fabulous model to. N

            #820158
            paul rayner
            Participant
              @paulrayner36054

              Hi Noel. Interesting about Bovington, great museum. I will pass it on to his son. Thank you

              Regards Paul

              #820162
              old mart
              Participant
                @oldmart

                Don’t forget The War Museum in London, the model is too important to go anywhere other than one of the museums mentioned.

                #820183
                Colin Bishop
                Moderator
                  @colinbishop34627

                  A lot of museums, including the National ones are reluctant to take models for display as they take up too much room and not enough interest. As a result, most of the collections are now in store with only a few examples on show.

                  The Science Museum had an incredible collection in its shipping gallery which opened in 1963. The gallery closed in 2012 through lack of public interest as the museum could no longer justify all that space that attracted hardly any visitors. I used to visit in its final years and there were often just two of three people in it and on one occasion I had it all to myself. Just yards away other galleries were heaving with visitors.

                  https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/what-was-on/shipping

                  Even before that the National Maritime Museum had put most of its models into storage in favour of interactive  displays. Most of the War Museum Models and the Chatham Dockyard collections are now stored in No 1 Smithery at the Chatham site where models can be viewed for research purposes by prior appointment. A small selection is on public display at the facility.

                  Southampton Council transferred its very interesting Maritime Museum near the docks info a new building near the Civic Centre but most of the models went into storage to make space for a rather tacky Titanic interactive exhibition.

                  There have been a few indications that some curators are beginning to realise that a 3D model gives a better representation of a ship/boat than a 2D image but what is gone is largely gone now as far as public viewing is concerned. Curators want to ‘tell a story’ rather than just have a lot of artifacts in glass cases.

                  Much of the Science Museum and other collections may emerge in the new Swindon National Collections Facility but I don’t think you can just wander around as you can in a museum.

                  https://www.scienceinnovationpark.org.uk/

                  Colin

                  #820255
                  paul rayner
                  Participant
                    @paulrayner36054

                    That’s food for thought Colin. My first thought was the local tolson museum quite near to where he lived but it’s always under threat of closure by the local council due to funding.

                    Paul

                    #820260
                    noel shelley
                    Participant
                      @noelshelley55608

                      One thought on a museum that may close is to” loan ” the item. That way if things go wrong you have it back and rehome it rather than loose it. Noel.

                      #820306
                      Colin Bishop
                      Moderator
                        @colinbishop34627

                        Yes, loaning the model is always an option but does have its drawbacks. Many of the Science Museum exhibits were builder’s models originally on loan from the shipping company concerned. They were originally displayed in the company offices such as those in Leadenhall Street near the Tower of London an offered on loan to museums when the company moved premises or merged with another. 50 years on all these companies have gone and the line of ownership can be tenuous at best and often impossible to determine. Interestingly, although not wanted by museums now these models command high prices at specialist auctions with even nondescript cargo ships typically fetching  £6,000. Not so long ago a 12 ft model of the Cunard record breaker Mauretania fetched £135,000 plus fees. It was loaned to the Science Museum by the builders in 1938 and sold by them in 2015. The buyer was an art gallery which went into liquidation in 2024. I don’t know what happened to the model, it probably ended up in the hands of a private collector.

                        https://www.charlesmillerltd.com/auction/lot/lot-379—a-164-scale-builders-model-for-the-famed/?lot=5441&sd=1

                        Getting back on subject, this landing craft is something of a ‘technical’ model and would be of almost zero interest to the average museum goer. (It doesn’t have four yellow black topped funnels) and would only be appreciated in the right context. If Bovington are interested then that would certainly be an excellent option due to the association of the landing craft with the Army and the fact that the class carried tanks:

                        https://www.shipphotos.co.uk/ship/?ship=arezzo2

                        Colin

                         

                         

                         

                        #820372
                        paul rayner
                        Participant
                          @paulrayner36054

                          Cheers for the last link Colin, nice to see it in the flesh so to speak.

                          Paul.

                          #820378
                          Richard Simpson
                          Participant
                            @richardsimpson88330

                            I remember this model well when Harry did the show circuit with it just after he had finished it.  He frequently used to visit my own club and, I believe he was a member at one time.  I had a few chats with him during the quiet times at the Harrogate Engineering Exhibition, he was a very quiet chap to talk to but his skill with brass was unequalled.

                            He did other brass models as well, I seem to remember one was a cabin cruiser, all as beautifully made.  I once asked him why he didn’t paint them and he replied with a twinkle that he never got around to it.  Sad to hear he is gone, a great loss of an amazing talent.

                            #820388
                            Colin Bishop
                            Moderator
                              @colinbishop34627

                              Cheers for the last link Colin, nice to see it in the flesh so to speak.

                              I probably saw the ship at the time as I visited the Portsmouth Festival of the Sea but I don’t recall her.

                              The ferry in the background is Brittany Ferries Duc de Normandie which took us to and from France on several occasions.

                              Colin

                               

                              #820411
                              Richard Simpson
                              Participant
                                @richardsimpson88330

                                This was the other of Harry’s models I was thinking off.  This was at a Kirklees Model Boat Club open day in 2009:

                                12-07-09-23KirkleesGalaDay23

                                #820532
                                paul rayner
                                Participant
                                  @paulrayner36054

                                  Richard. That one may have been upstairs. Julian, his son did say there were some other stuff upstairs.  I only went to advise him on a few bits of tooling that he didn’t know what they were for. I was very impressed with the workmanship to say the least. Very impressive.

                                  Paul

                                  #820537
                                  SillyOldDuffer
                                  Moderator
                                    @sillyoldduffer
                                    On Colin Bishop Said:

                                    … Curators want to ‘tell a story’ rather than just have a lot of artifacts in glass cases.

                                     

                                    Very much so, and we’ve lost something in the process.  An enthusiast started my local museum in an ex-farmyard and showed many artifacts covering a wide range of local history.  Plenty of interesting insights, but no coherent story, always assuming there ever was one!  The Home Guard snippet consisted of a dull log-book, but it was spiced up by a Mills Bomb, WW2 Field Dressing, and Gas-Mask.  On the whole, the curio approach worked well and was popular.

                                    After getting lottery funding the whole lot was moved to the town centre and sanitised by a professional curator.  Now tells a very narrow story, and most of the exhibits are in the cellar!  I find it dull and patronising and suspect the coherent story only shows an unrepresentative slice.  Children aren’t excited either, unless they like colouring in!  They enjoyed the old museum because it was stuffed with exciting “what’s that” bygones like a school cane and ink-pots.  Every artifact was a conversation piece.

                                    A major problem with high-end models is how long it takes to appreciate them.   You have to know a lot about modelling and Landing Craft to appreciate Mr Barrow’s model.  Too much for a passing glance – I could easily spend an hour on it.   Curators prefer to keep people moving past dumbed down presentations, and they may be right!   I buy books and spend hours re-reading them whilst my family prefer an excellent CGI imitation of the Titanic sinking!  Hard for museums to compete with Hollywood.

                                    At ME exhibitions, I wanted to discuss models with the builder.  Rarely happened, either the bloke on duty knew nothing, or I was pressured to move on by the queue.  Life is difficult!

                                    Dave

                                     

                                     

                                    #820546
                                    paul rayner
                                    Participant
                                      @paulrayner36054

                                      Dave, I know what you mean. I once spent nearly 2 hours talking to the builder of booths rectilinear engine. I have the castings and hopefully will remember all the tips he gave me when I come to building it.

                                      Paul

                                      #820547
                                      Colin Bishop
                                      Moderator
                                        @colinbishop34627

                                        At ME exhibitions, I wanted to discuss models with the builder. Rarely happened, either the bloke on duty knew nothing, or I was pressured to move on by the queue. Life is difficult!

                                        Given the extended duration of the ME Exhibition in its heyday, entrants would normally attend only to deliver their models and collect them unless they had won an award. Transporting the models alone was often a major logistical exercise given that they came from all over the UK and elsewhere. On one occasion I drove from Surrey to Bradford to collect a 6 foot model of the liner Stirling Castle as my friend the builder was unable to deliver it himself for health reasons. I kept it at home for a few days before driving it to the Exhibition and collected it several days later when it closed. It stayed at home for a while before I was able to take it back to Yorkshire. The elderly builder was delighted with his Silver Medal.

                                        The stewards at the exhibition were there to protect the models from straying hands etc. Usually they were volunteers and it was pot luck to what extent they were knowledgeable about specific entries. Sometimes the entrants would be at the Exhibition but wanted to spend their time using their free pass to enjoy the show rather than hover over their entry in case someone might come along and want to talk about it. Perfectly understandable.

                                        The answer was usually to encourage entrants to provide a folder with information about the entry which could be displayed alongside the model and  and browsed by visitors who wanted more information. Some entrants were very good at this, others not so much.

                                        Colin

                                         

                                         

                                        #820553
                                        Richard Simpson
                                        Participant
                                          @richardsimpson88330

                                          You know the story I have about that one Colin.  I was at Harrogate ME show one year and having a browse around the competition pieces when I happened to overhear two judges discussing Brian Young’s ‘Havelock’ model.  One of them in a quite disparaging manner said “Yes but its only a fibreglass moulded hull”.  I had to step in.  I told them that the fibreglass hull had been laid from a mould, which was cast from a plug, which was originally a plank on frame construction from a set of plans and drawings found in a book.  I explained that the whole process was beautifully laid out in large photographs in the loose leaf folder right in front of them.  The response I got was that they hadn’t got time to look through such folders.

                                          I actually attended a IPMS show last weekend at a hall at the Lincolnshire Showground.  I was the only stand displaying something that was not a plastic model.  All my pieces were either steam boats or steam engines, a Stuart Turner display piece, a steam lorry and a RC SAS Willy’s Jeep.  I had a very enjoyable day as everyone kept coming over to ask about how everything worked etc.  That was one of the most enjoyable parts of the Harrogate ME show, chatting with all the chaps who had made such wonderful models and simply enjoying a conversation about how they had made something.

                                          #820559
                                          Colin Bishop
                                          Moderator
                                            @colinbishop34627

                                            Richard, the format of all shows is different. At the MEX if Brian’s Havelock had been displayed the entry form would have been structured so the the method of construction, extent of bought in items etc. would have been summarised on it and taken into account. Supporting information was also encouraged but whilst some entrants provided succinct details aimed at helping the judges, others simply provided a pile of rolled up plans which it was quite impractical to check in full and could only briefly be referred to in the time available.

                                            I was a MEX Judge for over 30 years and the whole process was a balancing act juggling between the model itself, the supporting information and the knowledge of the judges of the subject material. Knowing the entrant and their dedication to accuracy and track record also helped things along. At the end of the day it still came down to the considered opinion of the appointed judges based on their expertise and experience. The MEX used to have a separate judging day which allowed the judges to spend some time on looking at supporting documentation but in latter years budget restrictions meant that we had to do the judging on the opening day which made things a lot more difficult, not altogether helped by some entrants looking over the judges shoulders trying to eavesdrop on their discussions. It could be pretty difficult sometimes.

                                            Your IPMS stand was something quite different, it was your display and you were literally standing behind it which was great for visitors. Ashley’s stand at the Egham Show was something similar.

                                            Back in the day everything was more competitive, sometimes unpleasantly so. These days I take the view that I just enjoy seeing and enjoying the models as they are. Judging in the old sense has become impossible now given the application of technology to produce component parts and thereby an inability to assess the degree of input from the show entrant. ‘Scratch Building’ has given way to producing the most accurate representation using a variety of methods from sticking bits of wood together to buying in 3D printed fittings to achieve the desired result. I don’t have any problem with that. Life is too short now!

                                            Colin

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