VFD drives

VFD drives

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  • #451535
    John Rutzen
    Participant
      @johnrutzen76569

      Hello,

      I have a Naeok drilling machine which has a GEC single phase motor and 16 speed belt change. I find that changing speed with the belts is a time consuming process and it would be nice to have a dial speed change like I have on my milling machine. However that has a brushless dc motor. I see advertised on eBay vfd drives for single phase motors for about £55 and wondered if anyone has any experience of how useful these things are. Thanks.

      #13774
      John Rutzen
      Participant
        @johnrutzen76569
        #451538
        Oldiron
        Participant
          @oldiron

          Type in VFD Drives in the search box above and you will get several posts on the subject.

          regards

          #451544
          Alistair Robertson 1
          Participant
            @alistairrobertson1

            To use a VFD it is necessary to fit a 3 phase motor to allow the speed to be varied,

            A single phase motor cannot be varied in speed, well it can, but it is difficult, unreliable and expensive!

            I fitted a 3 phase 240 volt motor and a Siemens VFD to a Warco drill and it really transformed the machine.

            Varies from about 75rpm to 1500rpm and so smooth it is difficult to believe it is the same machine that I got from Warco. I am sure there is a market for supplying drills with this sort of specification as an option.

            #451550
            John Haine
            Participant
              @johnhaine32865

              If you mean J0AAOSw-HJdLGQn”>this type then i think the advert (widely shown on eBay and Amazon with identical wording) is misleading. The title says

              "Variable Frequency Drive VFD Speed Controller for Single-phase 450W AC Motor UK"

              but if you look at the connections shown in one of the photos it has earth, L and N, for input, then WVU for output. The last 3 are one of the conventions used for a 3 phase connection to a motor. In the list of features it says…

              …which are not characteristics you are likely to get by frequency control of a single phase motor! I think these ads are seriously misleading as the unwary could wire one of these straight to a 3-wire feed to an ordinary single phase motor and have a nasty surprise when they switch on!

              #451552
              Martin Connelly
              Participant
                @martinconnelly55370

                The advertised VFD is probably for a single phase supply, you can get them for 3 phase supply. Have you mis-interpreted the specs? If you look at the terminals they usually have live, neutral and earth input and u, v, w output for a 3 phase motor. A 3 phase supply VFD will have earth and r, s and t for input. Have you got a model number for the VFD?

                I have one of these (AT1) but notice in the paperwork there is a model designated AT2 which is for a 3 terminal single phase motor. I think in this case it is for a synchronous single phase motor and so is for a very specific type of single phase motor and not just any off the shelf single phase motor. If you buy one of these you will possibly need to get a suitable motor as well. The AT1 and new 3 phase motor may be the cheaper option.

                vfd terminals (2).jpg

                Martin C

                Edited By Martin Connelly Picture added

                Edited By Martin Connelly on 10/02/2020 12:44:28

                #451563
                Clive Foster
                Participant
                  @clivefoster55965

                  There are VFD boxes made for speed control of single phase motors by reputable companies. One from Invertek here **LINK** .

                  However these are generally only suitable for permanent split capacitor and capacitor start and run motors which are effectively two phase machines. As such they are effectively self starting and, given suitable manipulation of the relative phase and currents in the two windings able to generate useful power over a reasonable speed range. Power drop off away from rated speed will be more severe than with a three phase motor and useable speed variation considerably less. Optimal set up is probably a nightmare because the two windings have different impedances and carry different currents.

                  If a single phase motor is already running and the starter switch disabled it is possible to get a limited speed variation by changing the input frequency. Whether by VFD or other means. In practice the useful speed change range is only down to where the motor would normally stall out or re-engage the centrifugal starter winding switch. Even then efficiency will be poor with power dropping off rapidly. A similar speed increase range may be possible but again with serious power and efficiency implications. In general single phase motor design compromises are aimed at keeping run speed close to the nameplate rating and holding torque up to combat load changes without serious speed change. Outside the design range horrible things tend to happen. Exactly what depends on detail motor design. There are a lot of ways of doing single phase motors.

                  The inexpensive single phase motor driving VFD boxes seen on E-Bay et al appear to be simple input frequency variation devices with some means of temporarily driving the start windings to get the motor running. As such, assuming the starting device works, they may be capable of reliably running the common 50 Hz single phase motor between 40 and 60 Hz. Useful power range being most likely less. If you get lucky with a motor and drive pair that happen to suit each other things might work out acceptably well for unambitious applications but I don't see the risk as worthwhile.

                  Far better to bite the bullet, get 3 phase motor and VFD from a proper, reputable, supplier with back up services just in case things go wrong and know you have something that just works. Being frugal is admirable, and usually necessary for folks like us, but there are times when you have to accept that things cost what they do for good reason. Often "too cheap" = "too cheaty".

                  Clive

                  #451571
                  John Rutzen
                  Participant
                    @johnrutzen76569

                    Yes I think the ad is misleading. I'm an electronics engineer myself and though it's a long time since i went to college I didn't think you could speed control single phase motors. I'll look into the possibility of getting a 3 phase motor and speed controller for it.

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