Rebuilt Nightmare

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Totally mystified. No name etc for the OP on the first post. Unable to find any relevant comments in the linked album, but did click on something that led me back to this thread. Too hard. Shame, as fixing machine tools is always of interest to me, and I rather gather/guess/assume that is what the original post was about. Maybe?

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

As said previously, I did not intend my reply to Lathejack's album to become a new thread, or general topic and stir up any controversy; but in a way, I'm glad that a problem such as casting sand remaining in the headstock was brought to the attention of everyone here. Sand mixing in with the lubrication system, now there's a comforting thought. If it exists in a higher end import machine, one wonders what the odds of such problems occurring in smaller machines "built to a price point" might be ?

As Dave said, "If you are interested in the hobby, get on with it", and I would agree with him.

For those new to this hobby, I would suggest doing a lot of research before spending your hard earned money. Quality may cost a bit more, but poor quality will cost you a lot. Just the viewpoint of an old dinosaur who doesn't believe in….." If the product isn't right, we'll fix it", but believes that…… "If the product isn't right, it never makes it out of the shop door".

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Hopper, there are comments or maybe captions under each photo in the album for example

Lathejack does not post much on the actual forum but las a lot of albums with comments about each picture, almost a small article in their own right.

The opening post was by Mike.E, his name is there.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by JasonB on 11/12/2016 07:33:18:

Hopper, there are comments or maybe captions under each photo in the album for example

Lathejack does not post much on the actual forum but las a lot of albums with comments about each picture, almost a small article in their own right.

The opening post was by Mike.E, his name is there.

Thanks Jason. I managed to figure out how to see the comments when I looked at a few of the other pics.

Still not seeing a header bar with Mike E's name, avatar, post count etc in it, and no footer bar with quote/reply etc in it, hence the confusion. Yet another quirk of the automatic "upgrade" to Windows 10 I suspect.

Yes, certainly a shame that poor assembly lets down otherwise nice machines in some cases.

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Once I'd worked out that clicking each of the photos in the album an explanation is provided for each shot it all makes sense. Many ways of skinning a cat and that’s just another way of posting on the forum. Not the usual approach but effective.

Now I'm going to have nightmares about my Chinese lathe. So many similarities to the Warco in the design of mine. That said I believe the 'Chinese way' is to have a common design and many different manufacturers so there's a bit of luck as to which factory your supplier uses. So Gizzly, Chester, Warco, Machinery House, Hare and Forbes et al may use different sources for similar products. I have a Chinese copy of a Deckel tool and cutter grinder. I've seen about 5 different variants with slightly different features and build qualities (mine isn't that good).

Pete

(PS – when you find Lathejack get him to pop round and fettle my lathe please…)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/12/2016 15:14:21:

For those who might not have realised:

When viewing an album photo [ such as **LINK** ] there is an option to 'start a discussion'.

Reply To: Coming up for auction

It appears that Mike E has done just that.

MichaelG.

.

Hopper wrote:

Still not seeing a header bar with Mike E's name, avatar, post count etc in it, and no footer bar with quote/reply etc in it, hence the confusion. Yet another quirk of the automatic "upgrade" to Windows 10 I suspect.

 

Hopper,

I don't think we are seeing an oddity of Windows 10, but rather of the forum software … the display on my iPad is also as you describe.

The problem appears to be that the 'start a discussion' button actually starts a new thread:

Mike E. didn't realise this, so he didn't populate the header fields … which then led to the unusual layout.

… He thought he was starting a one-to-one discussion with Lathejack.

A simple change of wording on that button might clarify its purpose; but I guess we will have to live with it.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/12/2016 10:18:14

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

"A simple change of wording on that button might clarify its purpose; but I guess we will have to live with it."

Yes Michael, suck it up, Unfortunately this forum format proves "One size fits all" doesn't. The others run by the same accountancy firm, having the same format are exactly the same. When someone posts " I can't do/see whatever" and some bright spark retorts with "Well, it's OK with Windoze 9 3/4 and dampgorrila that I'm running", it helps not a lot but shows the inability of the web site compilers to get it right.

A colleague works for a multi national and it's his job to ensure that Every combination of O/S works on their site. Having said that, his company do take an interest in customers views.

Regards Ian

l

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I can't find a thread called Chinese torture. I did read all of the comments in the album. Of interest. If I bought a chinese lathe it would be from that range. What the comments indicate to me is that if I do buy one I will take a good look inside it. I probably would anyway as there have been comments before about sand in castings.

It does sound like Warco shouldn't have sold the first one to anybody unless is was ex demo and at a reduced price.

The rust is interesting. Small Chinese lathes did come in heavily coated with preservative. May still do so. Stripping and cleaning it all off was a lot of work. I'd suspect that cropped up where the parts were made.

Hand fitting as I understand it is pretty normal on items like this. Maybe they should have found some other way of locating the part where the drill went through an O ring.

He's fixed some aspects that he didn't like the look of. Might have needed doing might not. The feed pattern problem would probably be down to something wobbling while it rotated. Sort of reduced level of problem Brian had with the lead screw support on his Opti that may or may not be a one off. Could be that some adjustment was needed on the saddle, maybe hand work on the bed as per Brian's again.That's bad really if that is needed as it should have all been done in one setting on a slideway grinder but even those have marginal errors.

What struck me is once he had cleaned it up he seems to be pretty happy with the lathe. Then comes the low cost Harrison mentioned. Likely to have done enough work to have a noisy gear head and wear in the slides and head stock bearings plus any others in the gear head. Another lot of work to get it back to ex factory fresh. A lot more I would say some of it being impossible and or rather expensive.

All in all it wouldn't put me off but I happen to have found a pretty old Boxford that has done very little work. Even so the cross slide stiffens up when wound fully out and the headstock bearings should ideally be replaced. There is a bit of oval wear in the front one. It's not easy to find lathes like this and often they can be a lot worse and there is far more that will wear out on gear head lathes.

Pity he didn't publish the accuracy reports and compare them with his own measurements. The few reports I have seen indicate that they all aren't that bad really what ever they are compared with except what might be called very high precision lathes – when those were new and came out right.

John

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[Rick Kirkland 1Participant @rickkirkland1]

Yesssssssss ! ! ! This all makes sense now. Thank you,
A couple of years ago Lathejack and I were in constant communication over Chinese lathes, of which I had just purchased one called a ‘1236’. Upon examination and set up it was glaringly obvious that yes, they are built to a price and the test results certificate supplied with them “don’t count for Jack” . Along with Lathejack’s machines mine had casting sand in the gearboxes and many other problems in common. The tailstock alignment and accuracy was abysmal, tailstock barrel was flimsy and deflected badly when clamped, blah blah, etc. I was in fact writing an article for our magazines pages regarding the corrections and improvements being made to bring it to the kind of standard I’ve been used to with Colchester, Smart and Brown , dare I say DSG and OLD Myford. Due to life changing events and a house move the project has stood for a long while but has recently recommenced. I’ve not spoken to Lathejack for a while, nor , due to lifestyle /change events have I been able to honour his kind invitation to visit him, but, onward and upwards things are now progressing.
Thank you for making this thread make sense to a batty old bird.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Colchester, Smart and Brown , dare I say DSG and OLD Myford.

I doubt you paid a comparable new price…

Neil

[Rick Kirkland 1Participant @rickkirkland1]

No, Neil, in fact looking at adds on the back covers of old M.E and E I M, the price I paid in numbers of pounds was nearly the same as these Chinese machines were going for in the 1980’s / early 90’s. The only brand new lathe I ever bought was my trusty ML7 and it was exactly 106.00. I also bought the stand with drum reversing switch and raising blocks. That was , I think another 47. 00. I still have the ML7 and it now has a Super 7 style clutch which I made on the 1236 lathe after sorting a few of the problems that would have prevented accurate machining of those particular parts. The hardest part of that job was using Myfords manual and exploded diagram and parts list to work out the design and construction of the Super 7 cast iron to bronze clutch assembly. But it certainly works. Inspiration and part of the design comes from an article in a very early issue of MEW, , in fact that was the issue that twisted my arm up my back and forced me to become a subscriber. !!

Edited By Rick Kirkland 1 on 11/12/2016 15:47:15

Edited By Rick Kirkland 1 on 11/12/2016 15:48:20

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 14:30:47:

> Colchester, Smart and Brown , dare I say DSG and OLD Myford.

I doubt you paid a comparable new price…

Neil

.

I'm not trying to bash Warco, or their suppliers, but [aside from mere numerical comparison], I honestly struggle to understand the concept of "comparable" in this context.

The imported "hobbyist" machines are supplied at very low prices when judged by their feature-list … but there is much more than that to a good machine tool, and it's the detailing that makes the difference in terms both of quality and price.

The subject has been debated many times on this forum and others … with no obviously 'correct' conclusion.

To my mind, it's a little like trying to price a Vermeer painting by the intrinsic value of the materials used.

… is a sheet of MDF painted with Hammerite "comparable" ?

Just a Sunday afternoon 'soap-box moment' … l will step down now.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

LOL If I bought one it would probably be the GH1236 or same without DRO.

Colchester. I used to visit a bloke with a Triumph. He left the company to set up his own business and took the lathe with him. It was selected from several as they vary – for best finish and accuracy.

I used a DSG for a while and remember the spec. Not sure of the centres but think it was 60". I did have 3ft lengths of steel on it and there was still plenty of room. DSG guaranteed that it could be installed to give a centre accuracy of 0.0015" or better.

Myfords are known to vary. Doesn't matter what make or machine is bought they will vary.

In terms of the quill moving when clamped what would you expect as there will always be some clearance.

Boxfords were reckoned to be well made on a budget of sorts. This shows the limits they used and the results on one particular lathe.

That lathe to make now would cost as much as the "better" versions of their new models.

It's a SouthBend clone. Pity the Chinese don't do one however with the screw cutting gearbox and power feeds etc would push the price up. They might lighten it too which wouldn't a good idea really.

John

–

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/12/2016 16:07:16:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 14:30:47:

> Colchester, Smart and Brown , dare I say DSG and OLD Myford.

I doubt you paid a comparable new price…

Neil

.

I'm not trying to bash Warco, or their suppliers, but [aside from mere numerical comparison], I honestly struggle to understand the concept of "comparable" in this context.

The imported "hobbyist" machines are supplied at very low prices when judged by their feature-list … but there is much more than that to a good machine tool, and it's the detailing that makes the difference in terms both of quality and price.

The subject has been debated many times on this forum and others … with no obviously 'correct' conclusion.

To my mind, it's a little like trying to price a Vermeer painting by the intrinsic value of the materials used.

… is a sheet of MDF painted with Hammerite "comparable" ?

Just a Sunday afternoon 'soap-box moment' … l will step down now.

MichaelG.

My point was a qualitative one, not a quantitative one.

The post I replied to specifically said it was about bringing a far-eastern import to "the kind of standard I've been used to with Colchester, Smart and Brown , dare I say DSG and OLD Myford."

With your Vermeer/MDF example, the same point applies, unless, of course, Jackson Pollock applied the hammerite.

Neil

 

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 17:04:07

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/12/2016 10:14:01:

I don't think we are seeing an oddity of Windows 10, but rather of the forum software … the display on my iPad is also as you describe.

The problem appears to be that the 'start a discussion' button actually starts a new thread:

Mike E. didn't realise this, so he didn't populate the header fields … which then led to the unusual layout.

… He thought he was starting a one-to-one discussion with Lathejack.

A simple change of wording on that button might clarify its purpose; but I guess we will have to live with it.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/12/2016 10:18:14

.

.

Yes, you are correct Michael, on both points.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 16:59:06:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/12/2016 16:07:16:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 14:30:47:

…

…

…

unless, of course, Jackson Pollock applied the hammerite.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 17:04:07

I'd bet money that Neil mentioned that particular artist just to provoke an 'Oh no, now we're talking Pollock's' joke.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 11/12/2016 17:38:41:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 16:59:06:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/12/2016 16:07:16:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 14:30:47:

…

…

…

unless, of course, Jackson Pollock applied the hammerite.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 17:04:07

I'd bet money that Neil mentioned that particular artist just to provoke an 'Oh no, now we're talking Pollock's' joke.

… the fish pun thread rides^H^H^H^H^Hswims again!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/12/2016 16:59:06:

My point was a qualitative one, not a quantitative one.

The post I replied to specifically said it was about bringing a far-eastern import to "the kind of standard I've been used to with Colchester, Smart and Brown , dare I say DSG and OLD Myford."

.

… But you went on to introduce the topic of comparable price … and that is what I was commenting upon.

It is impractical [impossible?] to make an assessment of comparable price when we are trying to compare "Apples, Oranges, and Bags of Cement".

MichaelG.

.

As I said … it was just a soap-box moment

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