Not a “modeller”!

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I'm intrigued as to why some people seem to be embarrassed by the thought that somebody might believe that they make models.

The title of the magazine seems to me to reflect the size of the equipment one might find in the workshop, although I would move the apostrophe to after the R (Model Engineer's Workshop) to reflect that it's a spin-off from the Model Engineer magazine (which in itself was a nice pun when THE was still in the title).

I'm off to cut the hedge. I'll probably have to fettle the trimmer first, but that's the job of a mere mechanic. The engineering will have to wait till later.

Rod

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Rod,

The Engineers will be needed to draw up a schedule of parts and tools needed first, then a time/cost analysis, followed by an HSE evaluation ant it's paperwork.

Been there, done that.

Now I just do when energy allows.

Geoff – Hence R*d B*ll. Oops forgot that I should NOT advertise

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Perhaps the simplest solution to all this nonsense would be to stop using MEW as an acronym, and adopt it as a word [not to be confused with "mu" of course].

… More room on the Cover page, and [maybe] non-controversial.

MichaelG.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/08/2014 11:44:53:

Perhaps the simplest solution to all this nonsense would be to stop using MEW as an acronym, and adopt it as a word [not to be confused with "mu" of course].

.. or perhaps rename it Muddle Engineer's Workshop

Russell.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Don't subscribe to the notion that to be an engineer one has to have a degree. When I was at sea in the Merchant Navy I don't think I ever met an engineer who had a degree but I met a load of very good engineers.

One day a guy with a degree in engineering came on a ship. His degree thesis had been on boilers. Whilst being shown round the engine room he asked what this huge piece of equipment was. The reply was "a boiler"…………. Just shows that having a degree is not everything!

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 24/08/2014 11:48:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/08/2014 11:44:53:

Perhaps the simplest solution to all this nonsense would be to stop using MEW as an acronym, and adopt it as a word [not to be confused with "mu" of course].

.. or perhaps rename it Muddle Engineer's Workshop

Russell.

I like like it.

Must get out of this armchair and do some Muddleing

Cheers Michael.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

We'v had an example of name change here in NZ over the last few days, Telecom(you can understand what that is) is now Spark. Ian S C

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by ChrisH on 24/08/2014 12:11:30:

Don't subscribe to the notion that to be an engineer one has to have a degree. When I was at sea in the Merchant Navy I don't think I ever met an engineer who had a degree but I met a load of very good engineers.

One day a guy with a degree in engineering came on a ship. His degree thesis had been on boilers. Whilst being shown round the engine room he asked what this huge piece of equipment was. The reply was "a boiler"…………. Just shows that having a degree is not everything!

I have some sympathy with that view – Brunel was not a graduate. But times change. Back in the seventies when I were a lad about 5% of 18 year olds went to university. Now, it's approaching 50%. The bright apprentices who went on to do HNCs and the middling A level students who became bank managers all go on to university now.

Hedge cut, time for lunch.

Rod

[StovepipeParticipant @stovepipe]

Trouble is that "engineer" is a severely debased term, any oik knowing which end of a screwdriver is which is described as an engineer,

I have this vision of Neil on stage singing (?} "I am the very model of a model engineer", parodying "HMS Pinafore".

Dennis

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Here is an interesting list of autodidacts, people who self educated themselves and made a difference in many disciplines including engineering and science **LINK**

There must be millions more……

Regards
John

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

Wow. All this verbosity regarding a name, and the use/definition of the term engineer.

Well I do not make models but I do use engineering machines in my workshop at home. All of which must mean something, but frankly I do not know, nor do I care, what it means.

I know sometimes my views may sail in the face of numerous posters on here, but for goodness sake have you/we got better things to do than simply discuss a non-subject.

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

Well said Madmike. Totally agree. What a load of hot air over a title.

Steve

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Russell

|.". or perhaps rename it Muddle Engineer's Workshop "

or, in my case, the Engineer's Muddled Workshop!

Norman

[MAX THE MILLERParticipant @maxthemiller]

For a magazine to survive it must attract new readers.

The title doesn't matter to us, as we know what the content is and in many cases are subscribers to the magazine.

The title does matter to the casual or first time buyer who is scanning the titles is a High Street news agent and wondering which magazine to purchase. This buyer may be a vintage or classic car enthusiast who wants to make or repair parts for a vehicle. If "he's not a modeller" he may not even bother to look inside the magazine to see what the content is.

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

I still like Neville Shute's introduction to "Trustee from the Toolroom" –

"An engineer is someone who can make for five bob what any bloody fool can make for a quid."

[JAParticipant @ja]

I find this subject very sad.

Originally an engineer was a military builder of defenses etc. By the time the engine, what ever that means, arrived he built, maintained and operated engines. At that point the definition of an engineer becomes messy, fitters and others started calling themselves engineers. From the mid nineteenth century the professional institutions have tried the control the definition without success since they do not seem to be prepared to support legislation to protect their definition.

If such legislation was enacted would it encompass "model engineers"? I bet it would by default. Personally I prefer the American "home machinist".

By the way both Brunels and Robert Stephenson went to university.

I should add that I am a chartered engineer having served an apprenticeship and then gained a post-graduate degree.

JA

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

D.A.G. – Love you to be the editor, How about you volunteer?

Rik

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by JA on 24/08/2014 19:32:31:

By the way both Brunels and Robert Stephenson went to university.

IKB was very well educated but after completing his studies at Lycee Henri IV he was not admitted to the Ecole Polytechnique but was briefly apprenticed to Breguet the watchmaker before joining his father's business at the age of 16.

Marc Brunel entered the French navy at 17 and was in it for 6 years before moving to the US where he eventually became chief engineer to New York .

A sterile argument really, since there were no engineering degrees available in those days. The closest they could have done was mathematics, but e.g Kings College in London only started awarding those in 1830. These guys and their contemporaries invented mechanical engineering as we know it, mostly from a background of civil engineering.

Cheers,

Rod

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I think Chartered Engineer is the title that should have the respect of most people in engineering. The ones I have dealt with have all been worthy of the title.

Mike

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i dont consider myself an 'engineer'… im a pure untrained amateur hobbyist.

in the miniature loco world there is a very important distinction i believe following on from LBSC. his locos were 'miniatures'. 'model' railways and locos etc are of smaller scale that dont work as per fullsize ie electric motor fitted inside. the term 'model engineer' however is generic, and covers those who build miniature locos, but not those who build 'model railways'.

confusing perhaps! not if you see a live steam miniature loco – it isnt a 'model' but a faithfully working 'miniature' version of fullsize. this is perhaps something particular to working miniatures such as I.C. engines, traction engines , and steam locos.

whether the builder has any qualifications or training or is an engineer is of no concern to me at all!

cheers,

julian

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by OuBallie on 24/08/2014 11:14:29:

Unfortunately the name 'Engineer' has been so 'bastardised' and degraded over the decades, it's become pretty meaningless, in this country at least.

That seems to be true in the UK. In some other jurisdictions (most of North America for example) the use of the term "Engineer" is limited to those registered with and licensed by the appropriate state/provincial Engineering Institution.

License is gained by sitting the exams of that Institution or getting exemption from them via a (minimum) Bachelor's Engineering Degree from an approved university.

Unlicensed use of the title "Engineer" may lead to legal action.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

I agree that there are a lot of degree qualified Engineers who don't know which way is up, I spent the last 10 or so years of my working life trying to help them work out how to make things in the real world.

There are a lot of Engineers (by job title) who don't have a degree, I understand this, I was one of them (so to speak), my edikashun also stopped at HNC level.

Sparked some conversation though, even though as I said, my tongue was and is, slightly in my cheek!

Keep smiling, at the end of the day its a hobby, and therefore, almost by definition, is a means of passing time. The World won't stop turning if you want to call yourself an Engineer, a Pastry Chef or a domestic implement hygienist as long as you are enjoying yourself and not harming others.

eat more cake, drink more beer (but not in the workshop)

cheers

Bill

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

I am not a prolific model builder, I make more tooling than models. I feel most comfortable by describing what I do as "hobby engineering". I am therefore a "HE" rather than a "SHE" ( superior hobby engineer ) – I could never aspire to those dizzy heights!

Rik

[JAParticipant @ja]

Rod

I stand corrected about Marc Brunel. According to Wikipedia his son attended Caen University but the article then confuses matters by saying college at Caen.

I believe Robert Stephenson's short university education at Edinburgh was part designed by his father.

I agree, a sterile argument but interesting.

JA

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Second mug of coffee this morning so I've enough caffeine in my system to pitch in….

It appears that I am the "Modeller" in question – as there apparently aren't too many others of us around (according to some here). I would also be very happy answer to the title "Model Engineer", although in my case it might not be well deserved (Model Engineering Apprentice?).

I don't really care what you call ME or MEW – although I don't see any point in changing the titles either. 'Model Engineer' has served pretty well for a hundred years or so and seems perfectly OK to me. In fact I get fed up with things getting changed just for the – what is the right word here? – well – just because we can perhaps… Never mind the history, culture or anything else.

What I do care about is the content of these two magazines and generally I manage to find something of interest to me in most issues. I understand that there are others who do not share my particular passions (I don't understand why this might be so – but I do accept the possibility) and the Editor has to cater for them too.

Anyway – I'm a 'Modeller' and (would-be) 'Model Engineer'

My current modelling "Hero" is a German guy by the name of Jurgen Eichardt. He is a 'Marine' modeller and although I'm not – I've spent some time looking at his website (via Google Translate). Having looked at his US Minesweeper – I've decided I'm still very much the Student and not the Master…. Inspiring and a bit depressing at the same time!

If there are any other "Modellers" here (one or two perhaps?) – then they might find this of interest

**LINK**

I've also just purchased his two "milling" books and just from the diagrams, I'm going to learn something – I will also have a lot of laughs translating the technical German I suspect.

Regards,

IanT

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