ML7 Owner now wants a Mill?

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Neil

While there is some logic in what you say any even number of flutes/cutting edges will give that result. However I would have thought that the the cutting edge at the front of the mill, which at it's front edge is cutting at right angles to the direction of the slot, will produce a significant side force to the cutter while the trailing edge runs effectively under no load conditions. This too will supply an uneven force to the cutter encouraging it to deviate from its designed path.

Just a thought.

Martin

[Anonymous]

Ah well, clearly I don't know what I'm doing, since I use a 2-axis DRO on my vertical mill, and think that it was the single most useful accessory that I have bought. On the other hand I do make money from the mill, which I wouldn't be able to do without the DRO, as it allows me to be quicker, and therefore charge less per part, with less scrap.

I rather suspect that most of the companies with hundreds of mills and no DROs, and with people who knew what they were doing, are now out of business and the people out of work. Possibly because companies with mills and DROs were able to produce parts more cheaply, even if the operators were less skilled?

Andrew

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

I doubt it was DRO's that saw the decline in staff, it is more related to CNC machines but for most CNC's a 1 off not economical.

Only 2 axis what happened to the third one? My Marlow mill has a 3 axis DRO with glass scales works fine but I could do all the jobs with out it just makes things a little easier.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> I would have thought that the the cutting edge at the front of the mill, which at it's front edge is cutting at right angles to the direction of the slot, will produce a significant side force to the cutter while the trailing edge runs effectively under no load conditions. This too will supply an uneven force to the cutter encouraging it to deviate from its designed path.

That's what I meant, even if I didn't express it too clearly!

Neil

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

I cut a slot undersize then finish off with a light pass down both sides to finished size that way the tool deflection is minimised on the second pass.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 30/06/2014 15:08:20:

There is no need for DRO ,its a fad for those who cant operate a mill by using the index collars , hundreds of thousands of milling machines were in use during the twentieth century the majority never had DRO as it was a later invention, if you want to use the myford dividing head on the mill it can be bolted to an angle plate.

Bit of a rash statement Nigel, I have DRO's on all of my machines and would not be without them. I find it extremely difficult to read the dials due to vision defects so the DRO makes accurate machining a pleasure not a chore. It all depends on the individuals requirements/abilities/disabilities etc.

A DRO is most certainly NOT a fad!!

Graeme

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

I thought that perhaps DRO's would prove a little contraversial, seems I was correct!

Thanks for the useful model club links, I will follow them up.

I am still a little confused regarding the plethora of collets , chucks and drawbars etc available so I will try and take some pics of what I already have with the ML7 to perhaps get a better feel for a this.

Thank you so much to everyone for all the help so far.

Cheers,

Martin

[Anonymous]

Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 01/07/2014 11:19:20:

Only 2 axis what happened to the third one?

I bought a professional DRO (Newall) and the 3rd axis would have been over my budget. I don't miss it. Almost all of my work is 2D; hole depths and the like can be set accurately enough (within a few thou) on the quill and/or knee mechanical dials. For those few times where the depth of a feature is important I cross check the dials with a depth micrometer.

Andrew

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I don't think anyone is saying that a DRO isn't a great asset it is just when the money is tight do you buy one or food for a month or two. I'm sure the seats in a Rolls-Royce are really comfy but I make do with a somewhat smaller car. Perhaps with the new legislation I should raid my pension fund and blow it all on a luxury motor.

This time/value arguement got me thinking. My kitchen is about 1/6 of my house so probably costs me a couple of grand a year in interest payments which would pay for weekend takeaways on paper plates and the rest of the week I could eat at work. There's a shower at work and I can sleep in the landrover so goodby bathroom and bedroom. The other bedroom is the workshop and I've got some important kit stored in the living room so they have to stay.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

You don’t NEED a DRO like you don’t NEED a good quick change toolpost on your lathe but I’ll wager that in both cases, you won’t begrudge spending the money. You CAN use the dials on a milling machine but if you’re strapped for cash, it’s a fair assumption you won’t be buying a new machine and therefore can you trust the feedscrews of your mill to not be worn? With a DRO, it’s irrelevant it measures table travel independently of what the dials say. I have to say, buying and fitting my DRO was the single best purchase I’ve made for the mill.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi all,

I thought I would post some pics of the kit I have already got to help sort out what I might need.

I have been using a Derbyshire Elect that I got at a bric a brac sale to make some small parts for about a year now but it is really not man enough for my needs so I intend to sell it to partially finance the purchase of a mill.

I believe it is quite desirable with all its tooling.

I have also collected a fair amount of tooling and odds and sods while in anticipation of getting the ML7 so am pretty much up and running with that but finding it a steep learning curve all the same. There is a small local precision engineers who have kindly let me use their power hacksaw to cut stuff up for rollers etc that need replacing on bookbinding tools. I must take care not to wear out my welcome!

There is a pic of the ML7 as well.

Cheers,

Martin

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

BTW (and another point of controversy) don't cover machine tools with plastic even if it says Myford on it. Plastic sweats in a domestic environment so use a cotton sheet. Those covers were designed with a factory in mind where there is a stable temperature but is sometimes rains through a leaky skylight.

After derusting your rotary table apply diluted clear waxoyle (outside on a hot day) to lay down a thin layer of wax which is nicer to handle than oil.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi Bazyle, Here I might partially take issue with you; while I agree in general with your remark, the reason I have used the plastic over on the ML7 and had one made for the Elect is that both machines have 3 or 4 VPI pads attached to them from Shield technology. The skirts of the covers are secured with loads of rare earth magnets to keep the space as draught proof as possible. All the clear boxes and the engineers cabinet have these too; never have had any rust at all. These are used in the film industry for all location camera and equipment boxes and while not cheap do an excellent job.

By buying them 20 or so at a time the cost is not too bad, an unopened drawer will last well over 2 years on one pad!

A cheaper alternative is to use Shippams paste jars with perforasted tops and filled with old fashioned naptha moth balls!

cheers,

Martin

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Not a bad little collection, looks like you already have a ER25 collet chuck hence the little boxes and the chuck holder in pic 12. Looks like its MT2 so should fit a lot of milling machines some that have MT3 are easily accommodated with a MT3 to MT2 sleeve.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Bob, thanks for that good news!

Martin

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Looking at the pics in your gallery, all you need is a Mill, a vice and a handful of colletts and away you go. Seriously, I wouldn't be worrying about the cost of tooling as you have most everything you need. Don't get hung up on the size of Collett chuck either. As has been mentioned, it looks like you have an ER25 chuck there and I find that by and large that size covers most everything I do. I do have an ER40 chuck but I mostly use my ER25 chuck.

Cutters. The only real bone of contention. I am lucky, I pay around £2.50 for brand new Dormer and Presto cutters of varying sizes up to 12mm or so. I am wary of some of the cheap cutter sets I see offered for sale as I have heard various stories of inconsistency.

With respect Bayzle, you are missing the point with regard to the DRO's, and I quote: "I'm sure the seats in a Rolls-Royce are really comfy but I make do with a somewhat smaller car" – but you don't do without though. And my argument therefore stands. For less than £100 you can fit out two axis on a Mill with a very modest DRO setup. Or you can buy a very expensive setup costing considerably more. Personally I prefer driving to the supermarket to do the shopping as opposed to walking, but like yourself I use my modest car and not a stretch Hummer. It does the job and that is what is important to me.

I will point out that some have had bad experiences with the type of DRO setup I use and in fact John Moore went for the glass scale setup after trying not one but two or more different "economy" setups. I personally am quite satisfied with my setup and if it becomes unreliable I would fork out the cash for a Rolls Royce.

graham.

Edited By Oompa Lumpa on 01/07/2014 21:12:28

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Martin,

As the machine you are looking at has an R8 spindle and you have a full set of ER25 collets, you could buy an R8 ER25 collet chuck (without collets) and share the collet set between the mill and lathe. I doubt that you will use both at the same time! That set up will enable you to hold any size milling cutters up to 16 mm shank.

Russell.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi All,

Some progress, have cleared out a load of junk from WS and now working on where things will go.

This may be really silly but here goes:

All my woodworking machinery was located on various forms of castored machine bases; on nice day I could wheel them outside for use which made working much nicer and less dust to worry about, (long extractor hoses!)

More importantly when not in use they could be pushed into a corner to free up space. Machines are now mostly gone, (large table saw and router table ready to go) but I still have one of the bases left. This is a very strongly built 18mm marine ply box on 250kg industrial castors with treble thickness top and space beneath for storage. Can easily be cross braced inside if needed.

Could this be used for the Warco Mill (or whatever)? The large Axminster Morticer that used to sit on it seemed fine and that was very heavy indeed, (could look up the weight I suppose).

Just wondering if this is viable from a using the mill properly and safely point of view?

Incidentally I have ordered a moveable large storage rack from Rapid Racking that will keep all the tooling,stock etc handily close by but will shove out the way when done.

Cheers, Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Just found out that WARCO are having an open day on 19th July so will traipse up there and have a look see!

Talked to one of their chaps on the 'phone and he seemed very helpful.

Have advertised the Derbyshire Elect Lathe and Router Table so must see what they fetch, before finalising the budget.

Bought The Workshop Manual book which is fascinating.

Cheers,

Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi all,

Russell, the machine is 3MT not R8 I am pretty sure so I guess a 3Mt to 2MT for the ML7 tooling I already have?

Does anyone have any thoughts on my query above re the mobile base for theis machine please?

I need to know this in order to buy/not buy the cabinet base.

Regards,

Martin

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi All,

Bullet well and truly bitten!

Went to Warco and bought a new WM18, Stand & DRO plus a lot of stuff from the second hand area which was a real scrum, but good fun!

Found out that Warco actually do a moveable base for the mill so hopefull that problem solved.

Really very nice and helpful people to deal with as a newcomer.

Came home with the stand & tray which will help me plane the space better.

I have a pair of tall acro's and 2 off 6×4 greenheart beams with chain hoist ready to tie into the roof rafters for the lift when ready.

Cheers, Martin

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