Can I ask members for their advice on these two…???

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Evening…I'm a newbie on here and only experience was back in school in the 80s…I've already posted in the new members bit and thanks for all the advice…

I've seen a couple of local to me items I'm interested in having a look at and wondered if any members could give me some pointers if there are clear issues with them…

I can't figure out how to add screen shots to the thread or the Ebay links but they are titled as;

Mini metal lathe used for £175 in leytonstone london listing number 303837932861

And

3ft bc ames precision for £399 in chelmsford essex listing number 264991693192

Many thanks and I know it's a lot of asks…my thinking was neither are a lot of money and can always move them on if I advance or don't take to it…

Martin

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Two possible lathes to buy from ebay

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

The mini metal lathe looks like a york in the pictures and there is a thread on here about a restored one that I think is beautiful…

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bit of a job to go and look at anything at the moment as it's not exactly essential travel.

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by JasonB on 09/01/2021 20:33:30:

Bit of a job to go and look at anything at the moment as it's not exactly essential travel.

Travel restrictions aside of course…

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

No comment as not my type of lathe.

BIN prices may be a hope of selling at a good ( high) price – likely put on as an auction, next week.🙂. Not always the case, but happens quite a lot. Potential buyers (apart from perhaps the one who pays the BIN price) wait for the item to be relisted as an auction.

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by not done it yet on 09/01/2021 20:55:28:

No comment as not my type of lathe.

BIN prices may be a hope of selling at a good ( high) price – likely put on as an auction, next week.🙂. Not always the case, but happens quite a lot. Potential buyers (apart from perhaps the one who pays the BIN price) wait for the item to be relisted as an auction.

Thanks…I hadn't thought of that…I'll keep them in my watch list…

[RedsetterParticipant @redsetter]

Both interesting antique machines, but in my opinion not really suitable for a beginner.

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by Redsetter on 09/01/2021 22:10:25:

Both interesting antique machines, but in my opinion not really suitable for a beginner.

What would be your concerns for a beginner…???…I thought they looked relatively basic…

[RedsetterParticipant @redsetter]

Posted by Martin Watson 1 on 09/01/2021 22:12:18:

Posted by Redsetter on 09/01/2021 22:10:25:

Both interesting antique machines, but in my opinion not really suitable for a beginner.

What would be your concerns for a beginner…???…I thought they looked relatively basic…

Both obsolete, rare, and difficult to get parts for, and if they don't come with a complete set of chucks and tooling, or need rectification work, that will be a problem, and any major repairs will need another lathe to do them on, plus the skills…

The York looks reasonable value assuming it is not worn out – impossible to tell just from pictures – but it is a very small lathe so may not suit your requirements. It only appears to have one chuck, and I would guess that it has a direct drive from a motor behind the back board and no countershaft, so it will run rather too fast for some model engineering jobs. Not too difficult to put that right, and chucks and so on can be found, but it will be a steep learning curve and may get expensive for a very basic lathe. It depends what sort of work you want to do.

If you are a beginner it is difficult to assess a used machine. I think it would be preferable to spend a bit more money and start with a new mini lathe from, for example, Arc, Chester or Warco – perhaps not perfect machines but good value, not worn out before you start, and they have a good knowledge base, and readily available spares and accessories. Also, try and find someone who can show you some basic techniques, and how to use it safely.

I'm going to leave it there, as others will no doubt like to comment.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Unless you are in a desparate hurry to make a vital part to repair your ventillator hang on for a few months and assess the market and range of lathes available. Also means you will be able to go and pick it up unless the vendor is willing to courier it. Just put an area related search on ebay and as each one comes up check it's spec on Lathes.co.uk and observe and spreadsheet its selling price. Make a pact with yourself not to be tempted to bid. (bit like going on the waggon or a diet).

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by Redsetter on 09/01/2021 22:52:57:

Posted by Martin Watson 1 on 09/01/2021 22:12:18:

Posted by Redsetter on 09/01/2021 22:10:25:

Both interesting antique machines, but in my opinion not really suitable for a beginner.

What would be your concerns for a beginner…???…I thought they looked relatively basic…

Both obsolete, rare, and difficult to get parts for, and if they don't come with a complete set of chucks and tooling, or need rectification work, that will be a problem, and any major repairs will need another lathe to do them on, plus the skills…

The York looks reasonable value assuming it is not worn out – impossible to tell just from pictures – but it is a very small lathe so may not suit your requirements. It only appears to have one chuck, and I would guess that it has a direct drive from a motor behind the back board and no countershaft, so it will run rather too fast for some model engineering jobs. Not too difficult to put that right, and chucks and so on can be found, but it will be a steep learning curve and may get expensive for a very basic lathe. It depends what sort of work you want to do.

If you are a beginner it is difficult to assess a used machine. I think it would be preferable to spend a bit more money and start with a new mini lathe from, for example, Arc, Chester or Warco – perhaps not perfect machines but good value, not worn out before you start, and they have a good knowledge base, and readily available spares and accessories. Also, try and find someone who can show you some basic techniques, and how to use it safely.

I'm going to leave it there, as others will no doubt like to comment.

Many thanks for that…the plan was to keep on with my research and I got tempted with what looked like good value…back to the research…I do like the sieg lathes so what you say makes sense…cheers again…

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by Bazyle on 09/01/2021 23:07:55:

Unless you are in a desparate hurry to make a vital part to repair your ventillator hang on for a few months and assess the market and range of lathes available. Also means you will be able to go and pick it up unless the vendor is willing to courier it. Just put an area related search on ebay and as each one comes up check it's spec on Lathes.co.uk and observe and spreadsheet its selling price. Make a pact with yourself not to be tempted to bid. (bit like going on the waggon or a diet).

Thanks bazyle…the impulse to buy catches us out at times…cheers mate…

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Both of these lathes are overpriced as always witnessed by the number of watchers on buy it now items. It's a good measure of how many people can't quite believe the asking price.

The advantage of old stuff like this is you won't blow a circuit board or smash a plastic gear by being heavy handed.

The Ames is worth £150, the York is too small to do much with plus the headstock bearings are crude

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by Dave Halford on 10/01/2021 11:08:31:

Both of these lathes are overpriced as always witnessed by the number of watchers on buy it now items. It's a good measure of how many people can't quite believe the asking price.

The advantage of old stuff like this is you won't blow a circuit board or smash a plastic gear by being heavy handed.

The Ames is worth £150, the York is too small to do much with plus the headstock bearings are crude

Thanks Dave…that's the benefit of being in a forum right there…in my inexperience the ames one looked a peach…cheers for that…

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I often watch items, just to see if they sell and what the market value might be, while having no intention of purchasing.

I must have watched thirty or more – maybe even more than fifty? – surface grinders on epay before I found one worth going for (not on epay).

Some were possibilities but too strong on price, some were rubbish (but still sold) and some were simply not even under consideration (too small, too heavy, too old, too bulky, etc).

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The Ames is just a very over priced peach, the York also has no means of making a measured cut. There are no graduated collars to be seen on the lead screws.

You can tell a lot from photos, look carefully.

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Thanks for the advice all…it's all part of the learning process…

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

Hi Martin

It would be wise to spend some lock-down time considering what you want the lathe for and how much work you will do with it. Also how much work you want to do fixing the lathe.

I have been following restoration threads, videos and forums for ages and I am convinced that they are only for people who specifically like old stuff, its simply too much work to fix them up, unless you are specifically interested in doing that for its own sake (as I and lots of others are.) As for missing parts, that is too often a case of make a new one, for which you need a machine.

If you are interested in the long-term, i.e. you want the capability to make stuff for the rest of your healthy life, then its worth investing in a machine in serviceable condition, either second hand or brand new, there is huge choice.

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

I've had some great advice and just had a fantastic chat with Martin King on the phone…definitely a lot wiser…thanks to all the advice it's much appreciated…

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you are not experienced, I would consel against buying an old machine, especially from a E auction site, where the chances of being able to examine it are small or non existent.

And as recent Forum posts have shown, there are scammers out there waiting for the unwary.

An old machine will lack the features "normal" to more modern machines, may be worn or damaged, and could have parts missing. Finding replacements can be problematical, even IF a part can be found. It may be even more worn or damaged than the part that you want to replace. Or your machine may be a Mk1, and the part, when it arrives turns out to be for a Mk2A. and so either will not fit

(They upgraded / changed the gears, sizes or threads? May even have inverted things like dovetails)

It might even be a total hybrid, an All Spare Parts, assembled by someone whose only skill is making a good paint job! Maybe misassembled / maladjusted.

A bargain perhaps, if you know what you are doing, but an expensive mistake if you don't.

Restoring an old machine to running order, and using it can be a very satisfying part of the hobby. But not necessarily for the inexperienced, impatient or impecunious.

Fantastic work has been done on old machines. There are folk on the Forum producing excellent work on machines that are a century old. A former working colleague can produce work on a pre 1920 machine that I lack the skill to match.with a 2003 one. But that is my shortcoming!

You might even end up in the Catch 22 situation of needing the machine that is pieces to make the very part that needs replacement!

A friend bought a 80 year old machine. Basically good, but it would not turn parallel. The problem was solved, using my lathe to make repair part.

Having helped lightly repair / restore a few oldies, for friends, I have been fortunate in having my own machines available to make / modify / restore parts. Without such facilities life could have been difficult.

Caveat emptor!

Howard

[Martin Watson 1Participant @martinwatson1]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 10/01/2021 15:36:27:

If you are not experienced, I would consel against buying an old machine, especially from a E auction site, where the chances of being able to examine it are small or non existent.

And as recent Forum posts have shown, there are scammers out there waiting for the unwary.

An old machine will lack the features "normal" to more modern machines, may be worn or damaged, and could have parts missing. Finding replacements can be problematical, even IF a part can be found. It may be even more worn or damaged than the part that you want to replace. Or your machine may be a Mk1, and the part, when it arrives turns out to be for a Mk2A. and so either will not fit

(They upgraded / changed the gears, sizes or threads? May even have inverted things like dovetails)

It might even be a total hybrid, an All Spare Parts, assembled by someone whose only skill is making a good paint job! Maybe misassembled / maladjusted.

A bargain perhaps, if you know what you are doing, but an expensive mistake if you don't.

Restoring an old machine to running order, and using it can be a very satisfying part of the hobby. But not necessarily for the inexperienced, impatient or impecunious.

Fantastic work has been done on old machines. There are folk on the Forum producing excellent work on machines that are a century old. A former working colleague can produce work on a pre 1920 machine that I lack the skill to match.with a 2003 one. But that is my shortcoming!

You might even end up in the Catch 22 situation of needing the machine that is pieces to make the very part that needs replacement!

A friend bought a 80 year old machine. Basically good, but it would not turn parallel. The problem was solved, using my lathe to make repair part.

Having helped lightly repair / restore a few oldies, for friends, I have been fortunate in having my own machines available to make / modify / restore parts. Without such facilities life could have been difficult.

Caveat emptor!

Howard

Thanks Howard…I'd thought between an old one and a new one with my budget and I think a new one is the way to go…cheers…

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Don't forget new ones need setting up as well, they do not work their best straight out of the box.

Don't waste the guarantee by buying too early, I did that with a roll/bend/shear 3 way machine that was very poor.

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