Britan Lathe – New Lathe Day

[Anonymous]

Posted by Baz on 20/10/2021 17:28:07:

I think Britan are still trading………….

They're long gone. The name on my Britan manual is Britcam Tools and an address in Cambridge on what is now Castle Park. They shut down and formed Britan Machine Tools in 1979, who I think were based in Newmarket. There was a further sale to Arden Machine Tools, based in Birmingham, in 1985.

When I bought my Britan there was a company (may well have been Arden) who had spares, although you had to look hard on the website to find the information. Arden now seems to be dissolved, although I don't know when. So it looks like there is no longer any support.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 20/10/2021 19:37:23:

[…]

There was a further sale to Arden Machine Tools, based in Birmingham, in 1985.

[…] Arden now seems to be dissolved, although I don't know when. …

.

.

MichaelG.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Michael, long before I bought my Britan. So they must have sold on the spares, but I can't find any trace on the internet.

Andrew

[websnailParticipant @websnail]

I'm still lurking on here, so if I can help in any way, just ask.

The Britan 4 wheel grinder was a nice bit of kit but had non -standard size grinding wheels both in diameter and thickness if I remember correctly.

Andrew, glad you used your machine for what it was designed for

Cheers

Dave

[Anonymous]

Posted by websnail on 20/10/2021 22:51:47:

I'm still lurking on here, so if I can help in any way, just ask.

Dave: That's good to know, thanks.

I've never seen one of the Britan 4 wheel grinders but for ages there was one on Ebay. It seems to have disaapeared, but I don't know if it was sold or the seller got fed up.

I'm aware that I'm not pushing the Britan anywhere close to it's capabilities. The last items I made were for work; a batch of custom lockscrews for D-type connedtors converting from a Japanese standard M2.6 thread to the more common 4-40UNC. The next job will be custom flat head rivets for the chimneys on my traction engines.

Andrew

[PAUL SOMLOParticipant @paulsomlo24876]

Is there any way to tell from these pictures whether this Britan can accept a 1.25″ collet?  Also, is it necessary to use HSS tooling?  Can carbide insert tooling be used with appropriate sized holders?  Are the collets of a standard and readily available variety, or proprietary?

Paul

[PAUL SOMLO]

On PAUL SOMLO Said:

Is there any way to tell from these pictures whether this Britan can accept a 1.25″ collet?  Also, is it necessary to use HSS tooling?  Can carbide insert tooling be used with appropriate sized holders?  Are the collets of a standard and readily available variety, or proprietary?

Paul

No way to tell really. Looks more like a screw machine than a conventional lathe so could be rather specialised. You would need to measure the existing collets and see what you have got.

But yes you could substitute carbide tooling with appropriate holders.

[Julie AnnParticipant @julieann]

It looks like a 3/4″ collet machine. The 1-1/4″ machine is flat across the spindle front, ie, without the black nose. Comparing the work collet to other items in the box it looks like it is for a 3/4″ machine. Give us some dimensions of the various collets so we can confirm. I don’t think the 3/4″ and 1-1/4″ machines are interchangeable, but what does the headstock look like if you unscrew the black nose?

The collets are based on the DIN6343 standard but do not match any of the standard sizes, ie, they are custom. Collets for the 1-1/4″ do appear on auction sites now and again but the 3/4″ collets are extremely rare. I sold my 3/4″ collets many years ago as I have a 1-1/4″ Britan.

The Britan is designed to use 5/16″ HSS toolbits. One could modify 8mm shank insert holders to fit. But it would be a pointless exercise. The Britan is a production machine intended for use with HSS toolbits custom ground to form multiple features in one action, essentially form tools. Using standard carbide inserts would severely limit the flexibility of the machine.

The machine pictured seems to missing some parts, like the coolant feed.

Julie

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

With luck someone owns or has used a Britan will know what type the collets are, and the maximum size.

Otherwise:

• Though it doesn’t answer Paul’s questions, lathes.co.uk, describe the machine well, and they sell a manual and replacement belts.   I’ve no idea how useful the manual is: depending on the machine anything between a full technical description and a quick-start guide.  The Britan manual might have all the answers!
• Measure the collets.  Collet dimensions are published in reference books and on the web.  Photographs aren’t enough.
• Measure the spindle to see if it could take a 1¼” collet.  What’s the largest collet in the box, and how much meat would be left if similar was made to hold 1¼”?

Comment.  The Britan is a repetition lathe, designed to make the same item endlessly.   The tailstock carries a selection of tools, as does the tool-post, and both can be rapidly switched.   Pulling a lever rotates the tool-post to select next cutter, and they are set up in advance to produce a planned sequence of operations.  Planning and setting-up take time, but then the lathe churns work out very quickly.  An unskilled or semi-skilled operator inserts a blank, and then pulls the lever and rotates the tailstock until the job is finished: repeat endlessly.  It’s for making stuff like bushes, journals, and plumbing parts as cheaply as possible.   A mind-rotting deadly boring job that most people hated!   All but obsolete now, replaced by CNC machines.

Good news: heavy, accurate and good for batch production.  Bad news, it’s a specialist, not intended for general purpose machining.   Fantastic if you need to make 500 wotsits, but likely to be a clunky time-waster for making singleton parts.  The lathe has to be set-up, taking more time, and the repetition functions have little value.  Collets are great when needed, but most general purpose work-holding is done with a 3 or 4-jaw chuck.    How useful, or not, a repetition machine is depends on the type of work.   For less than, say 50 parts, it’s often possible to set-up a general purpose lathe to mimic production methods, so we prefer general-purpose equipment.  Or CNC, which is much more flexible, and far less boring!

It will work with carbide inserts, just increase the speed if possible.

Dave

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I thought they used their own collets just to be awkward. Andrew Johnson has one if he still monitors this forum.

[Julie AnnParticipant @julieann]

To pick up on some comments:

Collets: As previously said Britan collets are like DIN6343 dead length collets but are not one of the standard sizes, ie, they are proprietary.

The Britan is far more versatile than SoD assumes. It can make quite complex parts especially with proper cutting tool design and form tools. It can also do more than one operation at once. It has the advantage that two speeds, slow and fast, and forward and reverse, can be instantly selected by electrical switches on the headstock, no need to change gears or stop and restart.

Using the Britan for a single part isn’t worthwhile but I will use mine to make single figures of simple parts. A big advantage is that parts are all the same to within a thou or so with no effort needed. I have a capstan unit for my centre lathe but it is clunky to use in comparison to the Britan.

Using carbide inserts would cripple the Britan as one is stuck with a few simple shapes rather than the versatility of grinding special HSS toolbits.

Julie

[Julie Ann]

On Julie Ann Said:

…The Britan is far more versatile than SoD assumes…

 

Julie

Not guilty, m’lud!  I didn’t assume anything, nor did I say the machine wasn’t versatile.  Julie Ann has read between the lines!

We violently agree: “Using the Britan for a single part isn’t worthwhile“.

🙂

Dave

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

….It’s for making stuff like bushes, journals, and plumbing parts….

It was assumed in the description of the parts; bushes and journals in particular are very simple.

Pity we don’t seem to have smileys any more, but I am smiling.

Julie

[Author]

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