Search Results for 'arc euro'

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

They won’t be 19mm shank, they’ll be 3/4″ shank. This is the standard for Rotabroach type cutters.

Not MT3, but I use an INT30 ER32 collet holder with a small 3/4 rim and 1/2″ hat top-hat spacer behind the cutter shank to ensure that the collet closes evenly. Haven’t had one slip yet.

ArcEuro list them, but are currently out of stock.

 

And, yes they are brilliant for cutting clean holes quickly with relatively little motor load.

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

Dave,

You seem to make assumptions to support your case,

Not at all, I’m asking you to explain!

 

Let me be absolutely clear and maybe somewhat brutal. I find the forum to be far more interesting  and informative than MEW and even more so with the first edition of the combined magazine.

Yes, but why?  Is that difficult to answer?  What is it about the forum that appeals more than the magazine?   Is is gut feel, or is there a reason?   Both are allowed!

I buy the magazine to support the forum.

Good!

 

If the forum goes, then so does my reason for buying the magazine.

It has nothing to do with “me having come to the end of the road”. I find such comments condescending.

Not intended to be condescending, it’s just one of several possibilities.  Only a maybe because you haven’t explained.   And everything we do comes to the end of the road.   I grew up and left school. Several jobs ended and I retired.  Now I shall never father another child, climb another mountain, ride a pushbike, tour Europe or go scuba-diving again.  Ill-heath has kept me out of the workshop for nearly a year, and it might be permanent.  We are all subject to time marching on, and surely it’s not condescending to be reminded of that  universal truth?

Andrew.

If you don’t want to explain let’s drop the subject.  I’m not questioning your decision or trying to change your mind.  I’m asking because Model Engineering appears to be in decline and falling interest in the magazine is one of several symptoms.    Knowing why people like your good self are dissatisfied might help Neil and others boost the hobby.    Whilst buying the magazine to support Model Engineering  despite its shortcomings is good, I suggest it’s better to fix the mag, but that’s only possible if customers explain what’s wrong.  Silence leaves everyone guessing, which is bad.

As discussed in related topics, there may not be a simple answer.

Dave

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I agree the best way of supporting a forum is by supporting their advertisers,  I’ve bought diamond tool holders from the Australian company that advertised on here, a few bits from warco and arc euro also, so it’s definitely worth advertising,  I recently bought the precision tilting and swivelling vice, and sine version from arc, and they’re excellent.</p>
Maybe selling the forum off to someone who wants to run it as just a “workshop forum” not affiliated with any magazines might be an option?

If people continue to buy from advertisers it could be financially viable.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The C6 (or SC6) is a bigger, (Therefore heavier and probably more rigid)  machine than the SC4.

Probably didn’t sell that well, being more expensive, and larger than many Model Engineers wanted, so importing was discontinued.

With the Milling attachment, it might have been a competitor , (And possibly superior to) combination machines like the Chester Model B, and the now discontinued Warco version.

Arc Euro still list a few spares for the C6/SC6

Howard

Making a ball turning attachment for my ML10. I intend to use TCMT1100304 inserts. Looking at prices, there seems to be a price range of £5 to £10 followed by a range from £20 upwards. I shall be machining acrylic to begin with followed by mild steel later. For the few carbide inserts that I have, Arc Euro have supplied their own brand. These have been good, but they don’t do triangular inserts.

So can anyone recommend a supplier? Some of the dirt cheap ones may be OK for acrylic, but for steel?

Andrew.

[Ian Johnson 1Participant @ianjohnson1]

I bought a Sieg SC4 from arc euro last year, and it doesn’t have the fixing block for a milling attachment.  No big deal really for me.  The supplied chuck is fine, the jaws are a little sloppy but it is quite accurate, within a couple of thou.

Come to think of it, I’ve never seen a SC4 with a milling attachment.

The first thing I did was to drastically reduce the size of the silly extra large swarf back splash,  cut off about six inches to bring it closer to the bed. Fits on the bench top nicely now.

Regards IanJ

[Lathejack]

A  few take ’em or leave ’em comments that might help others buying a new lathe.

On 22 February 2025 at 19:58 Lathejack Said:

A few months ago a friend and myself clubbed together to buy this new Sieg SC4 Lathe from Arceurotrade.

Apart from a quick look and check that it worked when it arrived …

 

But today I lifted the lid off the crate and had a closer look and fiddle with it. I noticed that …

Pays to play the game buying hobby equipment!  Building down to a price minimises the expensive factory inspections that multiply the price of industrial equipment by 6 to 20 times above hobby price.   In effect the final check is passed to the customer, who normally finds minor problems like switches come loose in transit, but might also come across worse defects.   These are dealt with by the supplier, but the complaint has to be made reasonably quickly.

All other SC4 Lathes I have seen do have this mounting surface for the milling attachment, … I don’t know if Sieg have stopped including it, or if we just happen to have an odd lathe that does not.

I advise not relying on experience when a feature like this matters.  Don’t assume!    Whether or not a bed provides the fixing is in the manufacturer’s hands.  He might cast a few thousand beds for the combo version before realising it wasn’t selling and then use them up on ordinary lathes.  Then the next batch of bed castings are simplified – cheaper, but maybe surprising a customer.

The other item I noticed is the very bad 4 inch 3 jaw chuck…

Sounds like a lemon slipped through the net.  Talk to ArcEuro.

But I just wondered if anyone has fitted a 5 inch chuck to the SC4 lathe and if the lathe has coped with it OK.

…

Can’t answer the question without knowing what ‘coped with it OK‘ means!

5″ chucks are considerably heavier than 4″, which stresses the bearings, drive train, motor, and electronics,  eventually causing a premature failure.  A 130mm chuck is roughly double the weight (5.6kg) of a 100mm chuck (3.2kg)   And because a 5″ chuck will also hold heavier jobs than a 4″, the extra stress could be considerable.

Thing is the extra loads are unlikely to cause a spectacular instant failure, and may take years to show up.  Eventually is not black and white predictable!

• Wear and tear caused by occasional overloading might never become noticeable, but,
• Continuous heavy overloading causes rapid wear.  If the operator forgets it’s a hobby machine, loads a hefty lump of metal, and then hacks into it aggressively for tens of minutes.   One rough session could pop the electronics and burn the motor.  And less obviously take a few years off the bearings too.

Lightly built hobby machines last for donkeys years when driven within their limits.   Depends on what the owner wants, especially as most machines will take mild abuse without obvious consequences.  But the owner might be happy to thrash one until it breaks and then replace/repair.

If a 5″ chuck is essential and will be worked hard, then I suggest buying a bigger lathe.  However, if the 5″ chuck is lightly used, then an SC4 will cope.    It’s what the operator does with the lathe that makes the difference.

My sympathies – we all want new lathes to arrive in good working order and it’s a ******* nuisance when one doesn’t.

Dave

A few months ago a friend and myself clubbed together to buy this new Sieg SC4 Lathe from Arceurotrade.

Apart from a quick look and check that it worked when it arrived we still haven’t got round to doing anything with it, so it is still sat in its packing crate waiting to be removed and lifted onto a new steel stand which has yet to be made.

But today I lifted the lid off the crate and had a closer look and fiddle with it. I noticed that this lathe does not have the thick raised pad with four threaded holes on the back face of the bed casting to mount the vertical milling head attachment., so this is a big disappointment.

All other SC4 Lathes I have seen do have this mounting surface for the milling attachment, our lathe does still have the deep set back splash guard to allow fitting of one, plus the lathe spindle gear drive which can be disengaged to allow the use of power feeds when milling without the lathe spindle rotating, both of which now seem somewhat redundant.

I am well aware of the limitations of a milling attachment on a lathe, and this is not an issue at all. So I wondered if anyone else out there has bought a new SC4 lathe fairly recently that also does not have the mounting surface on the back of the bed casting. I don’t know if Sieg have stopped including it, or if we just happen to have an odd lathe that does not.

The other item I noticed is the very bad 4 inch 3 jaw chuck the lathe came fitted with. It is an unbranded chuck with a nice ground finish, but unfortunately the guide slots cut into the chuck body have been machined oversize, so both sets of jaws slop about fromm side to side and rock backwards and forwards. Also the internal gears mesh and rotate very roughly, even jamming at times as the key is rotated, even with the jaws removed. It really is the worst I have ever come across, and all other Chinese lathe chucks I have tried have been absolutely fine.

So it looks like a new replacement chuck will have to be purchased, and I think I would like to stick to a 4 inch chuck. But I just wondered if anyone has fitted a 5 inch chuck to the SC4 lathe and if the lathe has coped with it OK. While the SC4 is a more substantial machine than the SC3 type mini lathes it still has a similar size headstock spindle and bearings to the mini lathes, but a 5 inch chuck is quite a bit heavier than a 4 inch item.

 

[zymurgy2289Participant @zymurgy2289]

I got the 100mm faceplate from arc euro and with a bit of gentle modification of the chuck mounting holes my lathe now has a 100mm chuck on it. It sits ~20mm further out now over the standard chuck so I am expecting some additional wear on the bearings, but I can now hold the job I made the upgrade for.

When the bearings need changing I will upgrade them.

Pretty happy with the change, now to get the motor speed controller fixed/changed or junk the motor entirely and go belt drive 😉

Cheers,

Paul.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

We had a problem with Ryanair a few Christmases ago.  This is the text of a complaint I sent to Ryanair:

I am writing to inform you of the appalling way my wife, myself, and four other elderly and disabled passengers were treated by Ryanair and the Omniserve ground staff which caused us all to miss our flight.

My wife and I arrived at Stanstead airport at 10:34 am. As my wife was in her wheelchair and required the use of her portable oxygen concentrator, we had booked special assistance including the lift for boarding the plane. We went straight to the special assistance desk and registered there and waited for assistance to get to the gate. Someone duly came and took us to gate 30 before it opened and told us to wait just in front of the gate where someone would come to board us.

After some time the Ryanair gate staff arrived and I spoke to one of them to ask if we were to be boarded before or after the other passengers. I was told to just wait and someone would come to take the now six of us to the lift. I must point out that we were waiting in full view of the gate staff about two metres in front of the gate.

When all the normal passengers had been through the gate I again asked when we would be boarded and was told that someone would come soon. Shortly afterwards, and without a word to us, they closed the gate. Another member of Ryanair staff came and told us that the gate was closed and we were being denied boarding and that someone would come and take us back through security so that we could make alternative flight arrangements. He then left all six of us were left for the next hour or more with no communication. My wife was in tears and very distressed as she only had one day extra of medication and would need continuous flow oxygen for night time and we didn’t know when we would be able to get back get back.

Eventually an Omniserve employee arrived. He didn’t seem to know what was going on but kindly took us all back through security and to the Special Assistance desk where we had started our day.

After another long wait Tom Bradley (Omniserve duty manager) and his assistant arrived and set about arranging alternative flights and other transport. He was most helpful and understanding and arranged flights for my wife and I to Toulouse the next day and a taxi to take us from there to Carcasson airport to collect our car. As our daughter still had the oxygen concentrator that was hired for our stay I arranged for her to collect us and to spend another night with them. We eventually left the airport at 17:00 having spent six and a half hours in worry and discomfort.

Ryanair did not reply to that communication so I contacted Omniserve who believed that Ryanair where responsible but agreed to give us compensation which they would try to recover from Ryanair.  They also paid us 250 euro each under EU regulation EC 261/2004 which states that passengers who are denied boarding are entitled to compensation of €250 per person.

It pays to be persistent

Russell.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Fitting a mill with DRO is almost a no brainer – apart from the cost!   So consider adding one later, or starting cheap.

Mills can be driven on the dials, it just means the operator has to concentrate, and make use of marking out blue, stops, and anything else he can think of to reduce mistakes.   A DRO is a huge boon rather than essential.

My mill came without a DRO, which were more expensive back then.  However, dials being slow and my concentration poor, I soon upgraded to this simple type, mine came from Arc Euro, still selling them I see at knock-down prices today.

Knowing them to be minimalist and not very robust, I only expected them to carry me over until I could afford better in a year or so.   A decade later they’re still going strong!

If money is short, think carefully about tooling.   It adds significantly to the bill.   Cutters, mill and drill chucks, clamps, vice, rotary table, edge finders, boring head, angle gauges,  set squares, DTI, tool lamp,  etc etc etc.   Save money by thinking about the work you intend doing, and then buy tools as needed over time.   Spreads the load rather than saving money.    The one thing that turned out to be a complete waste of my money was flood cooling.   Messy and only worth it when I hack into lots of steel, which I rarely do.   You might!

Dave

 

 

 

[howardb]

On howardb Said:

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On vintagengineer Said:

I’ll stick to my 5.0 ltr Ford F100. It’s 46 years old still on it’s original England has just passed 450k miles!

…lHistorically oil has been cheap due to supply meeting demand easily.  This happy surplus state is ending:  demand is rising, many existing oilfields are depleted, and not many new ones have been identified.  Over the next 30 years demand will gradually exceed supply and petrol prices will rise.  ICE motorists will find themselves queuing to buy expensive fuel.   At some price point, it will be cheaper to go electric.

 

 

 

 

Recent scientific research does not support the hypothesis that crude oil fuel is of fossil origin.

There is a growing theory that crude oil is not the result of the decay of prehistoric long dead dinosaurs, protozoa and squashed fish, but that it is created by reactions between elements deep within the earth’s mantle, at elevated temperatures and pressures.

This is biotic theory -vs -aboiotic theory.

 

Has Abiotic Oil Eliminated Peak Oil?
My inclination is to allow this theory to propagate. it has a ring of truth about it.

 

 

 

Best way to deal with Abiotic Oil is to ask Howard to justify it.  Where’s the evidence? However, wven though Brandolini’s Law applies, I’ll try and explain.  Read on only if willing to put the effort in!  (Emotional beliefs are much easier than reading long posts calling for logic skills!)

Abiotic Oil is a theoretical possibility only because it can be made in a lab or synthetic fuel plant.   It doesn’t exist on Planet Earth in commercial quantities.   If it did, we’d be extracting it already.   There is no known process that could be producing it in quantity, or in recoverable form.   To be of any use it has to exist in huge quantities, and it doesn’t.  Try and buy some.

Coal, Oil and Natural Gas do exist.  Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Geography all provide strong evidence they’re of fossil origin.  Coal and Oil reserves both occur in regions that were obviously underwater in the extreme distant  past.   Hundreds of millions of years ago flat swamplands covered large areas of the world that collected organic matter from dead plants and animals.  The remains were then covered in sediment, crushed, and sealed in.   Taking millions of years.   The Carbon came from the atmosphere, which contained far more CO² than it does today and was much hotter.  Mountain ranges were appearing – all very unstable, with huge areas of land moving about.   The Americas were once joined to Europe and Africa, now the Atlantic intervenes.

Very large quantities of Carbon were captured by marine animals and ended up as Chalk and Limestone – Calcium Carbonate.    Smaller quantities ended up as coal and oil.  Hard to prove Oil came from animal remains because everything is liquidised, but where Oil occurs correlates with seawater lagoons.   Solid fossil evidence confirms Coal came from plants, hence fresh water lagoons.  The geological evidence for lagoons is rock solid, ho ho!

Deep coal mines sink shafts through layers of clay, gravel, limestone and Iron Carbonate to get to the coal.   These minerals are all deposits, again lagoon related.    In other words the ground slowly sank over millions of years and filled the shallows in. Much later the area was pushed back up, and we get the geography we know today.

Oil comes from much the same process, the main difference being that animals converted Carbon from plants to flesh, died, and sank to the bottom where the remains eventually fossilised in the same way as coal.  Mostly micro-organisms like protozoa and bacteria rather than big dinosaurs!  Millions of tons over millions of years.

All happened long before mammals existed.  Reptiles ruled, and creatures that bore and suckled live young were far in the future.  Humans, optimistically, are as old as about 200,000 years, so fossil fuels were forming unimaginably long before we evolved.  The planet was geologically much more active than it is today, with tectonic movements creating mountains and subsiding huge areas repeatedly.  Not now, the conditions needed to create fossil fuels no longer exist.   If you prefer, God isn’t making any more.

Unfortunately riches based on energy obtained by burning oil, coal and natural gas are not sustainable.   Wasting time on fantasies like  Abiotic Oil is dangerous now that humanity is within 30 years of running out of oil and gas, because we rely on them so much.   (Coal is good for about 300 years).   Fortunately for humanity there is an alternative:  the sun puts far more energy into the planet than we need, plus geothermal.  Extracting alternative energy is harder than setting fire to dug up minerals, but solar panels, tidal systems, hydroelectric, and windfarms all work.   We just need to get on with it!

I feel that most of the objections to ‘Green’ are political or emotional rather than technical.   Folk who understand how the world worked yesterday hate change, and, ignoring the evidence, want to believe in the status quo.   That can only end badly – in the foreseeable future, cheap personal transport based on oil, will end perhaps abruptly, more likely with millions slowly forced off the road by rising prices.  Fortunately EVs are a viable alternative, and Hydrogen is promising too; not perfect but much better than waiting in the sleet for a horse-drawn omnibus!

Is dissolving optimism and hating novelty an age thing?  Old men are notorious for becoming unimaginative and fearing anything that rocks their boat.   I feel it myself!  Got really annoyed earlier in the week by changes made by my bank.   I want to be left alone, not troubled by change. History and personal experience tells us change is inevitable.  Therefore I have to stay real, otherwise I’ll end up in a home being asked who the Prime Minister is.   Unfortunately evolution has left us with brains that think 5 or 10 years is a long time so we struggle with issues that are a decade or more away.  That’ll never happen we think, but that’s rubbish, of course it will…

The choice is to either party-on with fossils or to plan ahead.  Party-on is cheap and easy, but it will end badly.  The end of Gas and Oil is in sight and hoping lots more will be found is wishful thinking.   And even if more was found, Climate Change is real, even though many refuse to accept the evidence.    Chaps my age need not worry about what’s brewing because time puts an end to us before the worst, but our children and grandchildren will have to deal with horrible consequences.

Dave

 

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On vintagengineer Said:

I’ll stick to my 5.0 ltr Ford F100. It’s 46 years old still on it’s original England has just passed 450k miles!

Not living in London then! A Ford F100 would cost vintage £4562.50 per year in congestion charges…

Transport pollution has long been a problem in London.   Before the Tube and internal combustion the city was ankle deep in horse poo.   ‘Crossing Sweepers’ made a living by clearing paths through it for pedestrians.   A stinky health  hazard – upset tummies very common.

IC was initially welcomed in London because most of the incontinent horses went for cat food and glue. but it slowly became apparent that the Carbon Monoxide, Lead, Nitrous Oxides, Sulphuric Acid and particulates emitted by vehicles were also nasty.

Removing Sulphur, banning Lead, and fitting Catalysers reduced the problem, but internal combustion is still bad news for town dwellers.   Came to head in London after an asthmatic child died and the Coroner found she lived within 100 metres of a pollution monitoring station whose records showed that the authorities had ignored the fact that motor pollution persistently exceeded legal limits.  Hence ULEZ.

Whether or not electric is good or not depends on the circumstances.   I rarely travel more than 100 miles per day, and am more likely to be stuck in a traffic jam than living the dream on the open road!   Electric would have easily coped with my work commute, let alone retirement travel, and recharging one slowly overnight wouldn’t be a problem.    For me not having to refuel at a petrol pump is an advantage.

Electric doesn’t suit everyone!  Others do long motorway journeys, tow caravans, tour Europe, go off-road, and lose money if they have to wait for the battery to recharge.  ICE is better for them.

Whilst a significant minority better off with ICE, most people most of the time would do better with electric.   And the advantage of electric over IC will increase because the cost of petrol is going to sky-rocket.

Historically oil has been cheap due to supply meeting demand easily.  This happy surplus state is ending:  demand is rising, many existing oilfields are depleted, and not many new ones have been identified.  Over the next 30 years demand will gradually exceed supply and petrol prices will rise.  ICE motorists will find themselves queuing to buy expensive fuel.   At some price point, it will be cheaper to go electric.

Ironically ICE fans should be promoting electric, not rubbishing it.   Reason being that every electric car on the road reduces demand for petrol and that helps keep petrol prices low.

Dave

 

Recent scientific research does not support the hypothesis that crude oil fuel is of fossil origin.

There is a growing theory that crude oil is not the result of the decay of prehistoric long dead dinosaurs, protozoa and squashed fish, but that it is created by reactions between elements deep within the earth’s mantle, at elevated temperatures and pressures.

This is biotic theory -vs -aboiotic theory.

 

Has Abiotic Oil Eliminated Peak Oil?

 

My inclination is to allow this theory to propagate. it has a ring of truth about it.

 

 

 

 

 

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

Wow some excellent advice there.

@Dave – you’re absolutely right, I very much doubt I’ll be making many things to an imperial spec. I intend to do mostly repair work so I’ll just be to “fixed” spec 🙂 …or if I’m going to invent something then I’d just do all that in metric. The only reason I was putting metrology first is because a rather nice imperial bundle came up for £240 which would be a heck of a lot more to buy individually. The guy’s gone silent – so it may have gone now though.

@Andy – yes I do plan to work on old bikes – and newer ones or ones from Europe probably in equal measure so rock and hard place on that one.

@Jason – I have a digital vernier and micrometer (quite a small one). They’ll be great for precision but I’m getting very peed off with flat batteries so want manual equivalents. Plus I need dial gauges and more….

I’ll need to be honest with myself – I’m going to make mistakes – having to contend with imperial on top that is probably just making life hard for myself.

Time to start searching German Facebook and eBay for metric bundles 🙂

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The sewing machine motor motor is NOT a direct replacement. It is also 550W compared to the originals 1000W.
It is probably not economic to rewind the motor and may not be possible.
The other concern is that the drive board may be damaged as well. Let’s hope not. The ARC Euro motor should fit OK. Generic motors are more of a risk. Even with the same physical size and voltage rating there are many variables for both the motor and encoder.

Robert.

My mill spindle has been cutting out at higher speeds for a while now, so I’ve been burying my head in the sand and using it at lower speeds until I got time to look at it. On Friday it started making awful noises and creating so much electrical noise it was interfering with the LCD monitor (I’ve never seen that before!).

I’ve torn the head apart, and the coils inside the motor have a blackened section and smell of burning. Is this the sort of thing that I can get a new coils component for, or is it a whole new motor time?

If I do need a new motor, that opens up the question of what to buy from where. The original part is labelled W92-1000K1, which I’ve briefly searched for a datasheet for to no avail. It’s very similar to the number W92-1000A that Arc sell for the SX3; would that be a drop-in replacement? Littlemachineshop seem to have the exact part – does anyone have any experience in dealing with them shipping to the UK?

Another option I’d be interested in understanding is whether this is my opportunity to upgrade it. I know that the later KX3s had a 5,000rpm spindle – is that just an upgraded motor, or were there other changes? Anyone know what that motor is?

Alternatively, do I even need to be buying this specific motor? How cross-compatable are servo motors – can I just buy one the right size/rating from elsewhere for less? I’ve got access to a mill at work if I need to cut a keyway etc. I can afford to spend £400 to get this machine back in action if I have to, but spending less wouldn’t be a bad thing!

Thanks,
Mike

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome!

Your CL300 must have seen a lot of work to need refurbishment.

FWIW, be a little wary of a large chuck on a small machine. The chuck  will hold larger work, but will weigh more, so could overload the spindle bearings, and speed up wear / failure. A 125 mm chuck will be a lot heavier than an 80, or even a 100.

Tell what you want to do, and seek advice.  Ketan or Ian at Arc Euro Trade will give suitable advice, and advise against doing anything liable to cause wear or damage. They have a lot of experience.

Howard

A little test of the water. Not sure if this is of interest here. 7 1/4″ Eastern European prototype. A 6 year project started in 1985….. Almost complete…. Almost 20 yrs in design and research and 23 years in construction, oh how time flies by and world affairs change….

 

Based on an engine in Lithuania / Estonia in the 1950’s similar to this one…

https://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=11550

 

All the best…..

 

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

Nor was Dave’s assessment of ISO9001 true for us.

We were a government department being fattened up for selling off, and AN Other Gov. Dept, our main customers, forced us to adopt the nonsense, as many other firms were forced by major customers to do so.

That it was a management control system, not a product or service guarantee scheme, seemed to slip by un-noticed, and it became all the rage…

With respect Nigel, it absolutely was true for you!  Remember ‘Strategic Defence Reviews’?   Defence being massively expensive, all governments do them.   Their goal is to meet the nation’s defence needs without overburdening the tax-payer.  Big questions are asked: do we need a nuclear deterrent, are submarines the best way of delivering it, and, if so, how many?   And, if the Navy is going to operate submarines, what’s the best way of supporting them?  They are incredibly complex.

During WW2 British Industry struggled to meet many urgent military requirements, which generally they didn’t understand, because many of them were secret.  Thus the government set up a host of research establishments, specialising in advanced research and problem solving.  Radar, artillery, fuels, aircraft, explosives, underwater detection, wireless, cryptography, rockets, armoured vehicles, anti-submarine, anti-aircraft, anti-tank and many other examples.  They did a good job in an emergency, but very inefficient.    The Army, Navy and Air-force all had independent research overlapping establishments.   Considerable savings were achieved by merging them to avoid unnecessary duplication, maybe replacing three warehouses and their storemen.  Good organisation reduces costs and improves productivity.

Over the decades, Defence slowly rationalised their research arm, but retained ownership and recruited staff to operate them. They were a considerable management burden.   Seeing an opportunity to make money, industry lobbied government to let them take over.  And this was nectar to a government keen to reduce the number of civil servants, and is in line with the notion that organisations should concentrate on core business.   It was argued that Defence should manage Defence needs, and not be diverted into Research.   The change also suited the politicians for another reason.   Governments had been persuaded to subsidise failing industries on a large-scale, throwing good money after bad.  This problem is international, so by treaty, Europe, the USA and others agreed to change their accounting rules to make it difficult to subsidise anything, including government owned enterprises.   The pressure to privatise was enormous.

But having to sell defence assets proved difficult.   Despite years of work, they still weren’t as efficient as they should be.  Industry latched on to that, saying ‘we can’t pay much for this organisation because nothing is documented.  It’s so bad you need to pay us to take it away.‘   Doing ISO9001 properly would save taxpayer millions, but the workers either didn’t know or care.  Nor did they understand their jobs were on the line.  As Nigel says, his organisation was being fattened up, but ISO9001 was done badly because the team didn’t understand what was going on, or chose not to believe it!

Anyway, deals were struck, and new owners took over.  Their goal being to make a profit, they looked at outputs, how they were achieved, what future work was likely and when, who was essential, and what they needed to do to reduce costs.  As the highest overhead in most organisations is people, they’re an obvious target, so if in this position, get your act together!

Transferred employees were protected by TUPE for 3 years I recall, after they could be made redundant in a blink.    Those lucky enough to be delivering effectively in a well-organised group were retained.  Unlucky souls delivering inefficiently in poorly organised groups got the chop.  On average, well-organised groups usually have documented processes and improvement programmes.   Poorly organised groups tend to depend on “common sense”, and can’t improve.  Doing ISO9001 properly helps, not engaging is dangerous.

The Defence reform process was complicated, error-prone, and unfair.  Winners did well out of privatisation, losers suffered extreme pain.  And privatisation turned out to be a mixed blessing, it didn’t reduce taxation!  Various reasons. one being that in-house operations can reallocate effort internally when, not if, requirements change.   Privatisation reduces agility because requirements are contractual and cannot be changed without negotiating a new deal.   Removing, altering and adding requirements all cost money, and it’s bureaucratic. time consuming and expensive.

Management is about achieving balance, and that’s extremely difficult and short lived.  The hands-on element of the team tend to think, because they produce the final product, that they are all that’s needed.   I’m afraid that’s too simple: large organisations are complicated!   The nation cannot build nuclear submarines with traditional techniques, and especially not if those traditional methods are haphazardly applied.

All part of the March of Technology. Not physical technology, but the way organisations are engineered. They too have to be designed, and they too have quality problems, malfunctions, and become out-dated.  Much more to engineering than practical work.   May not like to hear it, but it’s true!

Statement: British productivity is the lowest of all industrialised nations.  Why, and what can be done about it?  Discuss!

Dave

 

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Arc Euro Trade.

No affiliation or bribery, yet again just a very happy paying customer.

Shortly after Old Mart suggested giving them a call to find out restock lead time on the 100mm SG vice, I had a message from Ketan to say give them a call as there could possibly be a display model but wasn’t sure.

I rang Ian this morning and, yet again, fantastic service. There was a display model bolted to a machine but unfortunately not any more as it is winging it’s way to me!

However, as said by Mark (and myself) above, calling them is dangerous as it is also being accompanied by a few other bits and bobs. Looks like no beer for me for a few weeks (months!) to cover that. 😲😒.

 

I am enjoying reading this thread, It’s a bit like starting someone starting a ‘what tyre’ thread on a motorbike forum (although this is far more civilised!) .. everyone has something that works for them and it is a pretty wide variety. Without seeing how everyone else works I think you tend to believe your solution if the best but there is always something else I suppose. I thought the Type 2 vice would be ideal for me but after reading here and a fair bit of searching, watching and reading on the interweb I came to the conclusion that is probably wasn’t the best solution for me. If you don’t ask you don’t know I suppose.

I look forward to reading more!

Cheers,

Taf.

[Mark EasingwoodParticipant @markeasingwood33578]

The ArcEuro 100mm SG vice on a Sieg SX3. It is the only 100mm vice I have, so I can’t give a comparison with any other. It had some sharp “flash” from grinding, on the edges when new, but a few minutes with file soon fettled it.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Wow, some fantastic responses and info there, thank you all !!

Having though more about it, and thanks to the responses here I’m leaning towards the Arc Euro Versatile SG Iron 100mm. I already have the monster of a Kurt so reducing to a 125mm version of the same type is a little pointless.

The fact that the mill spindle is somewhat forward of the centre point of the Y travel means the Kurt, being so big, only magnifies that problem as the fixed jaw is then even further back and clamping it any further forward would mean the vast majority of the vice is unsupported.

I will be able to clamp the SG Iron vice where ever with some suitably made clamps although coolant may get messy when used (must try one of the mist jobbies!) with it not having a gutter.

Only 1 problem .. Arc Euro have no stock of it!  Typical, I’m always the first to be too late 🙄

I think a small type 2 style will be on the cards for when I manage to sell some other stuff.

Thanks again all,

Taf

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

Another advantage of the Arc Euro Type 2 is that because they are clamped to the bed anywhere along the side you can place the fixed jaw wherever you want. It’s not dictated by the number or pitch of the slots on the table.

Robert.

You can do similar with most vices if you just use a clamping set on the gutter or bolting lugs. That is what I do if Iwant my vice at an angle or lengthways in preference to using the swivel base.

A matched pair of vices is nice buy you can often use unmatched ones or clamp one end to a block or angle plate if needed, handy when one end of the part is a different height to the other

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The type 2 from Arc Euro are a bit like marmite – some like them and others don’t.

I bought the 80mm(?) one from Arc and the other from a private seller who didn’t like it.

I do have other vises but the type 2 work well for me.  I did find I needed to grind the capscrew threads a little, on one of them, to make sure it did not mark the table at times.

I also like Abwood vises.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Another advantage of the Arc Euro Type 2 is that because they are clamped to the bed anywhere along the side you can place the fixed jaw wherever you want. It’s not dictated by the number or pitch of the slots on the table.

Robert.