Kelsey Media buys Mortons titles

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I would offer a counter argument:- Once set up, the cost of the forum is mainly hosting cost and advertising management overheads (paid for by the advertising!), unless you pay for decent forum software (WordPress not included). The hosting cost is trivial for a forum of this size and traffic and can be paid for by the advertising. On the other hand there are a proportion of us, who are subscribers, who get more value from the forum than from the magazine.

I, for one, would be less likely to subscribe without the forum. I don’t know if I am a tiny minority (as well as being short, short sighted, short memoried and short tempered 😀 ), but I suspect that there are a few of the same mindset.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Andrew CrowParticipant @andrewcrow91475]

After a lapse of a couple of years I have recently taken up a new subscription. This was a direct result of being involved with this forum.

If the forum were to be closed down there is nothing that would persuade me to use Facebook as an alternative and would be most unlikely to renew my subscription.

Andy.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

It would be interesting to know how big the forum membership is.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Well said Dave! Setting up the Mortons forums has been a money pit and is still incurring overheads with manual management. This Forum seems to be working fairly well but the MB one (on a different server) has not been updated to the same standard and still suffers regular glitches.

MyTimeMedia’s answer was to convert the old Forums to Invision software and this was done, with some difficulty, for Model Flying Site (RCME). The database conversion template was then intended to be used for the Model Engineer and Model Boats  forums. Unfortunately Covid intervened which stalled the changeover due to costs and subsequently MTM sold the titles to Mortons.

Mortons decided to use the Model Flying forum as a ‘bolt on’ but instead of following through with the conversion of the other two to Invision, decided to start again from scratch with WordPress which they were already using, presumably on the premise that it could be better integrated with their existing website setup with the results described by Dave above.

It did make a sort of logic as the Model Flying forum was effectively now a standalone system that could be linked to Mortons whereas the old ME/MB forums were integrated into MyTimeMedia and needed to be converted either into Invision or something closer to Mortons existing setup – i.e. WordPress.

So that is where we are now. I guess the Model Flying forum could theoretically disposed of to an independent private organisation if Kelsey were so minded. However, it would probably then need to support itself by donations in the same way as Model Boat Mayhem which was originally set up by Martin Davis to replace the original Model Boats forum which was killed off by a previous owner of the title as being an unwanted overhead before MTM acquired the Magazine.

Lots of history…

Colin

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I’m not sure how big the membership is on here, but an example from a camera forum I frequent, where I chuck in £5 per month to contribute; other members do similar, but no idea how much is raised.
I’m happy to do that as I like the site and it’s non-commercial.
It’s brand specific, but no longer sponsored by a manufacturer, and is maintained by a photo journalist who doesn’t take any payment, but covers excess costs himself, as the site runs at a loss most of the time.
A new server will soon be required, and the software is reaching end of life, with the later version being more expensive.

About 2750 listed members on that forum, currently 20 logged in on line, with another 800ish guests viewing.
Software licencing and server hosting is about £250/month according to the site owner.
No main advertisers, but banner ads bring in about £15/month

Members who sell photo gear through the site often voluntarily contribute a small % to the site’s running costs.

Bill

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I haven’t heard anything about the future of the Forum.

It certainly helps build a community around the magazines, but I’m surprised by the people who say ‘without the forum the magazines would be meaningless’. Are we really that dependent of social media these days 🙁

If people really want the forum to continue, the answer is to not use an ad blocker and make sure that when shopping online for workshop bits and pieces you try and go via the forum ads wherever possible. That will help maximise the effectiveness of the forum for advertisers, and advertising income is the only thing that can make the site viable.

In the (far?) future I can imagine the magazines going 100% digital and the Forum could then be invaluable. Who knows?

Neil

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Forums are definitely very useful as people can ask questions and often get immediate answers without having to use the slow ‘Reader’s Letters and suchlike in the magazine. Also, as someone has pointed out, they greatly expand the space available to share projects and builds.

The immediate issue is that the magazines are going to Kelsey but the ME and MB forums at least are probably now built into the Mortons wesbsite and  it may not be possible to extract them either on cost or technical grounds. Quite how you square that particular circle I really don’t know but I would guess that Mortons would like to be shot of them after all the problems and expense they have generated.

Colin

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Forum members have the ‘ace up their sleeve’ in that they don’t need Mortons or any other publisher we can at the end of the day set up our own forum

H

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Forum members have the ‘ace up their sleeve’ in that they don’t need Mortons or any other publisher we can at the end of the day set up our own forum

Yes, indeed. As long as you can scrape together the startup costs, maintain a certain level of income to meet expenses and have sufficient technically savvy members to structure and run it. It can be done and I am currently a moderator on a shipping forum which has done exactly that after the owner of an earlier incarnation pulled the plug at short notice.

The drawback in these circumstances is that all the content and accumulated expertise on the original forum is usually lost forever. It happens all the time. The value of paper and ink magazines is that they usually stay around forever in one form or another. Anything stored digitally can disappear at the the flick of a switch and often does.

Colin

 

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I agree the best way of supporting a forum is by supporting their advertisers,  I’ve bought diamond tool holders from the Australian company that advertised on here, a few bits from warco and arc euro also, so it’s definitely worth advertising,  I recently bought the precision tilting and swivelling vice, and sine version from arc, and they’re excellent.</p>
Maybe selling the forum off to someone who wants to run it as just a “workshop forum” not affiliated with any magazines might be an option?

If people continue to buy from advertisers it could be financially viable.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Maybe selling the forum off to someone who wants to run it as just a “workshop forum” not affiliated with any magazines might be an option?

Nice in theory but the forum is now built into the Mortons website so you can’t just lift it out and take it elsewhere. Converting it to an independent forum would cost thousands of pounds. Who pays for that? Plus it doesn’t have any intrinsic value. It is a financial liability with negligible revenue generating power.

Colin

 

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

Other model engineering and related forums are available.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Though it would be a shame to dilute their focus with all the tea room talk you get here, keep them for the subject of making models.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

For me it is a straight forward choice. No Forum no magazine purchase. Simple as that.

Andrew.,

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I for one don’t see this forum as social media, I think it’s more like a living library, come help centre. I try to help anyone as best I can, and have gained quite a lot of knowledge that I wouldn’t have got from the magazines. Yes I know there’s a Tea Room topic, but that’s not much different than people talking about things they do outside their workplace. I know I don’t know everyone personally, but there is some kind of togetherness to a certain extent, and I really think it would be a sad thing if this forum was lost.

Regards Nick.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I don’t think anyone could argue that this forum is not very useful indeed to a lot of people and would be a great loss if it were to be switched off. I would view forums like this to be more akin to a ‘digital’ club rather than classing them as social media. Through the Model Boats and Mayhem forums I have friends and acquaintances all over the world, many of whom I will never meet but very much valued nonetheless.

The question is how is it compatible with the purchase by Kelsey of the magazine? Especially when at the moment it is embedded in the Mortons website with no obvious way of extracting it.

Colin

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

My last post disappeared into the ether, so I will repeat.

If no forum, then no subscription to the magazine. It is as simple as that. I am sure that others may make the same decision.

Andrew.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/kelsey-media-buys-mortons-titles/page/2/#post-787583

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