Search Results for 'arc euro'

[steve clark 2Participant @steveclark2]

Right, let me clear up some points here, firstly I joined this forum to help me narrow down my choice of mill and gain some knowledge on the different bit holding systems, it really is that simple, I had no idea which suppliers of such machines were/were not connected with this forum.

In my very first post I did state that I've already had the "what are you going to use it for" question, I can only have this size of machine period so what does it matter, if the parts are for a train, remote control car, boat etc etc?

What on earth has my location got to do with anything either? I travel all over this Country, going to many different types of shows throughout the Year so don't assume I live in the South! What next, will my race or religion come into it?

You know after all the recommendations on here on the SX2 and the fact that it's belt drive, I was actually considering one, funny that you all of a sudden stated that you wouldn't sell me one.

Ketan, I must say, it would appear you have a 'big chip' on your shoulder about something or maybe you just can't stand any negative comments about the machines you sell, jumping on my post about the holes being drilled slightly out for example, that actually originally came from someone else by the way!

You know I didn't want to say this but I've actually spoken to you, some time ago I phoned you, asked a couple of general questions on lathes and the mere suggestion of a competitor's machine resulted in a big huff and you slagging them off!

I were most shocked and surprised, how unprofessional of you and you know what, I found them to be the complete opposite, most kind & helpful, I did end up purchasing a lathe from them.

Sorry but from my own telephone conversation and the way you have responded here I couldn't recommend Arceurotrade to anyone.

Anyway, many thanks for all the info from the other members on this forum, much appreciated.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Steve,

As you said right 'ol can o' worms this has turned out to be innit! still every one has their own opinions, & that's as it should be, giving rise to healthy 'debate' isn't a bad thing. I bought my machines as they were the right price with a decent deal 'on the day' & I can concur with a lot of what all the members have said, although in places the thread has I would say 'digressed to a certain degree'.

Phil A.. As with you I have bolted my mill to the wall which does stiffen it a lot more, & it is more convenient than floor fixing & the same with the MT 2 capabilities between mill & lathe, in hindsight I would have foregone the stand & had a much more substantial bench constructed I only tighten the draw bar 'hand tight' &, as you say, backing the draw bar up against the collar does 'self eject' the taper, mind you everyones 'hand tight' is different I can imagine someone who is built like a brick sh*** house can apply more leverage than I can so would probably need some 'extra' persuasion. I can only add that on a couple of rare occasions I have had to 'gently persuade' the draw bar with a brass hammer.

Refering back to tooling (TerryD & others) I too have bought a set of ER25 collets, from a Co. in Hong Kong, originally with a MT3 holder for my original machine which was a combi machine a C 500 (again Chinese) & I can't complain of the quality as supplied, again to the unitiated I have honestly only used 2 or 3 collets so far, 5,12,16mm but as I bought the full set of 16 I'm sure I'll use the rest eventually..at least I have them. Since getting my 'toys' I went back to the same Co. to buy a MT2 & 4 holders to suit the mill, & the lathe headstock,again at a very reasonable price. I can concur with others & do ensure that you get a decent 'milling' vice & not a 'drilling' vice there's no comparison, I got my 4" vice from Arc Euro (as with a lot of my stuff), who do supply decent equipment I must add (usual disclaimer.. thanks Ketan).

Regards

George

[steve clark 2Participant @steveclark2]

Posted by Terryd on 16/01/2013 08:42:43:

Posted by Old School on 15/01/2013 13:03:13:

Steve

………………………….The main advantage is R8 tooling has a key way in it does not slip in the machine and it does not have to pulled up as tight with draw bar as mt tooling and consequentially you dont have to hit the draw bar as hard to release the tooling.

Olly

Hi Steve,

I don't know if this has been pointed out by others but RE taper is not a collet system it is an alternative taper system to Morse tapers. The 'E' system of collets are used in holders or chucks which can have Morse or R8 tapers (there are other systems but these two are the most common).

The ER collet systems are useful because they can hold a range of size in each collet, unlike other less versatile systems. Hence a 6mm collet can hold work or cutters between 5 and 6mm because of the 'compressibility' of the collet. The system can be used to hold work or tools so is very versatile. So if you have an E collet chuck with a few collets for the milling machine that is really all the toolholding you need. There is no need for a different 'milling' chuck. My MT3, E32 chuck is hardly ever removed from the milling machine and it can hold all but my largest drills and milling cutters. I have a seperate lathe collet holder which I can use for much of my turning when I need accurate concentricity and repeatability

As another 'old schooler' I can honestly say that I never have to do more than nip up the drawbar in my milling machine with an MT3 taper housing and my MT2 drilling machine has never dropped it's chuck or the large MT drills I sometimes use and the MT taper in my lathe headstock and tailstock have never let me down.

The problems with morse tapers combined with drawbars is that folk tend to tighten them with too much force and consequently need to hammer the drawbar to free the taper. Worst problem is that they then use a steel hammer instead of a copper one (or similar) to bash the poor thing when struggling to remove the chuck. In all my years of machining I have usually just had to give the drawbar a light rap to release it, only rarely had to use a lot of force but have used a copper hammer and caused no damage to the machine. Then again I was taught in the toolroom but did witness a few gorillas in the production machine shop who thought that they had to use a lump hammer on every spanner and locking lever in sight.

The advantage in the home workshop of MTs is that tooling is common to lathe, drilling and milling machines, I can transfer my E32 collets and other tooling from lathe to milling machine or drilling machine with ease. No need for duplicate collet chucks.

My advice as to actual machine is to get the most solid you can, I have the equivalent of the Warco WM18 with a similar pressed steel stand and find it perfectly adequate and solid when bolted down. It's not a patch on my mate's Bridgeport but it does what I need without complaint.

Regards

T

Edited By Terryd on 16/01/2013 08:44:41

Thanks, now I don't know what to do, the E system sounds good, one collet being able to clamp a couple of different sized bits would be a bonus in my eyes. Is it like the system on a Dremel machine then where the 'cap' screws down tightly squeezing the collet around the tool's shaft?

Does the 'cap' part eat into/take away some of the available work height though? Would the R8 be better in this aspect?

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I would like to add my two pen'orth.

I bought Warco's mini mill – no longer sold by them – because a) it had a MT3 taper thus matching my lathe; and b) it was as heavy as I could handle.

The MT3 taper decision has been proved correct as I can use the MT3 direct or finger collets along with plain shank endmills & slotdrills in both machines. The writer who commented on the height saving is quite correct – something like 2"/50mm out of 8"/220mm is saved by using these collets. I rather suspect that buying the collets as necessary would also be better, as it is I have bought all the metric versions available yet only appear to use two or three of them, but also, having a quantity of ¼" diameter steel available, I could use the ¼" collet which, of course, I haven't got.

The point about the weight was, in retrospect, a huge mistake as I had forgotten that the machine could be partially dismantled before installation. I now believe that the X3 or equivalent would have been better.

My machine, and that of a friend, suffered almost immediately from broken plastic gears. My friend replaced his with metal gears from Arc Euro Trade, I replaced mine with plastic gears but have bought a metal set against the day that I break them again.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Old School on 15/01/2013 13:03:13:

Steve

………………………….The main advantage is R8 tooling has a key way in it does not slip in the machine and it does not have to pulled up as tight with draw bar as mt tooling and consequentially you dont have to hit the draw bar as hard to release the tooling.

Olly

Hi Steve,

I don't know if this has been pointed out by others but RE taper is not a collet system it is an alternative taper system to Morse tapers. The 'E' system of collets are used in holders or chucks which can have Morse or R8 tapers (there are other systems but these two are the most common).

The ER collet systems are useful because they can hold a range of size in each collet, unlike other less versatile systems. Hence a 6mm collet can hold work or cutters between 5 and 6mm because of the 'compressibility' of the collet. The system can be used to hold work or tools so is very versatile. So if you have an E collet chuck with a few collets for the milling machine that is really all the toolholding you need. There is no need for a different 'milling' chuck. My MT3, E32 chuck is hardly ever removed from the milling machine and it can hold all but my largest drills and milling cutters. I have a seperate lathe collet holder which I can use for much of my turning when I need accurate concentricity and repeatability

As another 'old schooler' I can honestly say that I never have to do more than nip up the drawbar in my milling machine with an MT3 taper housing and my MT2 drilling machine has never dropped it's chuck or the large MT drills I sometimes use and the MT taper in my lathe headstock and tailstock have never let me down.

The problems with morse tapers combined with drawbars is that folk tend to tighten them with too much force and consequently need to hammer the drawbar to free the taper. Worst problem is that they then use a steel hammer instead of a copper one (or similar) to bash the poor thing when struggling to remove the chuck. In all my years of machining I have usually just had to give the drawbar a light rap to release it, only rarely had to use a lot of force but have used a copper hammer and caused no damage to the machine. Then again I was taught in the toolroom but did witness a few gorillas in the production machine shop who thought that they had to use a lump hammer on every spanner and locking lever in sight.

The advantage in the home workshop of MTs is that tooling is common to lathe, drilling and milling machines, I can transfer my E32 collets and other tooling from lathe to milling machine or drilling machine with ease. No need for duplicate collet chucks.

My advice as to actual machine is to get the most solid you can, I have the equivalent of the Warco WM18 with a similar pressed steel stand and find it perfectly adequate and solid when bolted down. It's not a patch on my mate's Bridgeport but it does what I need without complaint.

Regards

T

Edited By Terryd on 16/01/2013 08:44:41

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Steambuff on 15/01/2013 21:40:12:

I don't think ArcEuro offer the 'Preperation" service any more.

Take a look on their Web Site for their offer on the SX2

Dave

For reference: Ketan's post was on this thread

14-Dec-2012

MichaelG.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

I seem to remember Ketan (Mr Arc Euro Trade) posting on this forum recently that the preparation service is no longer available. I think that he said too that they will not be attending the show. If you are interested in Arc machines why not give him a call. He often puts his head above the parapet here and would no doubt give you information on their offers.

cheers

Norman

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

I don't think ArcEuro offer the 'Preperation" service any more.

Take a look on their Web Site for their offer on the SX2

Dave

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Andrew J well you learn something every day Thanks

Steve it may be worth a look at the Arc Euro website they have a deal on the X2 if no more than a bargaining point.

Olly

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

Following my week-end of research (interupted by returning No. 2 daughter to University) and your kind advice, I plan to go with a 'quality' keyed chuck (probably Jacobs or Accupro) and a reasonably priced keyless (probably from Arc Euro).

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

How's this for a tale of customer service. I ordered a milling machine (whoopee) from ArcEurotrade on the 5th Jan 2013. Delivery was planned for today (14th). Then last Saturday, February's MEW arrived and I noticed that Arc had an advert with a special offer on the exact machine I'd ordered offering over £220 worth of accessories included in the price. The offer period doesn't start until the 15th. To say I was gutted is an understatement. These were the items I would have had to buy in the next few months. So I phoned them this morning to express my disappointment even though I thought it was just my bad luck to have ordered at the wrong time and would have to put it down to experience. However I was absolutely delighted when Ian at Arc told me the accessories had already been included in my consignment which duly arrived around mid-day. If this is not an example of outstanding customer service then I don't know what is. I think they have a customer for life.

Many thanks to Ian and Ketan

Gary

[EtheAv8rParticipant @etheav8r]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I was leaning towards Jacobs, but have seen a lot of negative comments on the interweb (they don't make 'em like they used to since a take-over and move to China manufacture…), Albrecht do look very excellent, but also very pricy, the idea to search for used is a good possibility, I am looking into the Rotagrip offerings, and CutWell do one R8 integrated that might be good. Another make I have come across is Accupro from MCS – from their prices, they should be very good – does anyone know them? I will check out the Arc Euro offerings I like Arc.

Edited By EtheAv8r on 14/01/2013 19:10:01

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

I would also go for the ArcEuro SX2 as well …. but they are not going to Ally Pally. So take a look on their website.

Dave

(No connection, just a happy customer)

[DismalduncParticipant @dismaldunc]

Yup I have the arc euro sx2 as well and I'm impressed for the money, it also has a rigid pillar instead of the swivel mount.

dunc

[MetalhackerParticipant @metalhacker]

The arc euro trade SX2 uses a Dc brushless motor and belt drive. It would be my choice every time. Andries. (usual disclaimer)

[steve clark 2Participant @steveclark2]

I've spent months thinking about buying a milling machine, I'm planning on biting the bullet and picking one up at a show this weekend.

I've had all the questions, "what do you want it to do?" and "which materials" etc etc. At the end of the day, workshop space & budget dictate which sort of machine I could have.

Is there really much difference between the ones below? Does spending say £250 more on one similar make/model give you that much of a better machine than it's rival? Is it just down to a difference in spindel, table, cross travel movement etc? There's always going to be a work piece/situation that any machine can't deal with I guess.

Some of these examples may well be over my budget (tooling to consider) unless I can get a reduction on the day, is that what it comes down to for some, the one who can offer the best price on the day?

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/XJ12-300.html

http://www.chestermachinetools.com/conquest-mill-super-4001-p.asp

http://www.chestermachinetools.com/champion-16v-mill-3991-p.asp

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/AMA16V.html

http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/31-wm-14-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-x2-mini-mill-prod568039/?src=froogle

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X2-Plus-Mill

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl-cmd300-mill-drill

Am I right in saying that all these have gear driven heads? Now to me that's a flaw straight away, plastic gears are going to snap one day, I know that there is a belt driven conversion, where would I buy those parts?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

A while ago I bought a new lathe and seeing as they were selling it 'fully loaded' I ordered 3 genuine Jacobs keyless chucks.

Unfortunately none of these have lasted more than a couple of years. All have exploded whist undoing the chuck. On casual instection I'm inder the impression that they have been over hardened as the shrapnel has that appearance.

They ought to stick to making cream crackers

I have replaced them with the same style and size keyless chucks from Arc Euro with no problems at all, in fact I have gradually gone thru and either edded or replaced the chucks on other machines with keyless.

I do machine tap on the big lathe and have found if you hold the outside of the chuck as you reverse then they don't spin and this works OK for me up to M16 thread, above that i often have to back out with a tap wrench.

They can tighten themselves up and I use a leather strap wrench that lives on a nail between the twin spindle drill, also on keyless and the lathe.

I do still have a few keyed chucks for specials like 0 and 00 series but still keep loosing the damn keys. These are gradually being changed over to the small ER11 collet chucks with a threaded back as sold for the little X0 mill. They are awesome.

John S.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Exmoor

Jeff Dayman & JasonB have just about covered all the requirements for building up your workshop; I have a Warco WM250V-F (with power x feed) lathe & the WM 16 mill, both bought at last years Harrogate exhibition. I had a very good look at Chesters, Amadeal, Arceuro to compare prices & 'package deal' offers & Warcos came up with the best deal (stands included) so I parted with my cash.

As far as support goes I can only give you my experience..Warco initially sent me the wrong machine, a standard 250 as opposed to the V-F, a telephone call to them soon remedied the mistake & I had my V-F within the week ,delivery costs taken care of, on checking the second machine I found that the saddle was severely binding along the bed at three points, poor casting manufacture & finish, the stand was of a quality that a first year fabrication apprentice could have done better,again a phone call, plus e-mail with photos had another machine & stand on its way, all this with profuse apologies & delivery costs taken care of. This machine has proven satisfactory to date & apart from a clean up of the travel grease etc I've had it working ..'straight out of the box' .. & apart from blowing a fuse ..my fault, I was testing how much a cut I could take off.. it has handled what I've thrown at it (not literally !!). I can concur with Jeffs comment on checking the drive belt though, it is only 1/4 " wide..so bought another .. 'just in case', & not cheap, any how ref back to the support point, Warco were very apologetic & immediately acted on the issues mentioned so I can't complain. I did mention during the phone calls that a better quality control & inspection system at point of manufacture would have prevented a lot of issues & I was assured that this has been taken on board.

The mill was ok from day one, again 'straight out of the box' & a general clean up soon had it running, a bit of a rattle coming from the head but I put that down to the plastic intermediate gears (seems to be a common denominator with most of these Chinese machines). I did check the bearings via the old mechanics trick of listening with a screwdriver as a stethoscope on both top & bottom bearing housings & did not detect any overloud rumbles or clicks so have left it at that. It also has coped with what I have asked it to do, including intermittant cutting on cast iron (bloody awful stuff to clean up!) & so far is coping with DOC of up to 1mm with a face mill & more with a HSS 4 flute end mill on cutting MS T bolt..so I can't complain. All in all both machines are doing what they are given quite satisfactorily,& accurately, & as we all know 'you don't get a Rolls for mini prices'

As far as tooling goes I have over the past I have bought a 4" tilting rot' table, a set of ER 25 collets & MT2 & 3 holders, various milling cutters,drills, mini chucks, keyless chucks,etc,etc, from the usual suppliers.. Arc Euro,Chronos, CTC (Hong Kong) ..usual discalimers, & flea bay, did actually manage to get a carbide 12mm ripping cutter for .50 pence, & 8 & 10 mm carbide end mills for a £ 1 ea. on fleabay..mind you postage was £3.40ea. from China..hmm! wonder who came out the winner there ?

So Exmoor, there you have my experience of setting up shop; NB; set yourself a budget, decide what you want to do, get the largest you can afford & have space for, & bear in mind the old adage ..'what you spend on machines you'll spend as much if not more on tooling ' in one form or another. I have a couple of photos of my machines in my album should you /anyone wish to have a look

Cheers & happy hunting.

George.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Mick,

You could do worse than to look on the ARC Eurotrade site itself.

Regards

Terry

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

I'll echo Cornish Jack's comments, and add Arceurotrade and Chronos to the list. I have had excellent value and service from both of these over the past six months.

A suggestion for the site David, perhaps in light of more recent posts from dissatisfied customers of some suppliers. How about some kind of indicator of customer satisfaction for our suppliers. I'm not sure how, perhaps based on an EBay type feedback. A quick visual marks out of ten, or red amber green system perhaps? I,m sure there will be some thoughts.

Bob P

[BubbleParticipant @bubble]

Hi Ian

re diamond wheel "truing"

Truing and cleaning are two separate issues.

First, truing ie getting the wheel to run true without "wobble". I have limited experience of one Arc Euro wheel, for use on my Quorn to shape/sharpen home-made brazed carbide-tipped boring bar tools.The wheel as received was pretty good but I decided to experiment! I reverse mounted the diamond wheel in the 3-jaw Griptru chuck (face and jaw runout checked/adjusted beforehand), and took a light cleanup skim on the back face of the aluminium body of the wheel.This was then checked for parallelism on the surface plate using a vernier height gauge. I also took a cleanup skim out of the bore. The wheel was then permanently mounted on a Chaddock-style arbor for use in the Quorn.

It appears to work ok, ie the whole circumferential diamond face gets used, and the assembly balance was good.

Second, cleaning. I have not tried this, but have read that a white aluminium oxide stick is used to refresh the diamond surface. This abrades the resin matrix and exposes the diamond particles. You stop when the alum. oxide starts to be cut away by the diamond. I recall from somewhere that the sticks are expensive to buy, but I suspect you could use an old grinding wheel (caveat experimentor!) I have also read somewhere that you can use a piece of natural limestone to clean. Maybe someone else here can confirm/deny this?

Hope this is of use.

Jim

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

Finally plucked up the courage and found the time to sharpen it today. Hasn't yet been used in anger ( tomorrow or thursday perhaps )but seems a lot sharper under magnifier and edge chipping has gone!

John – I have just stoned the front face with a diamond file as had done multiple set ups and measure ups all day to get the results right(ish), .

Also had to lubricate the Boxford thoroughly as hasn't been used "full range" for a while so slide ends etc sticky and tiring on the handwheel. Then the grease gun leaked, then couldn't find the grinding finger I wanted so 3 more made etc, etc. By this time I was knackered

Now a further question- how do you "true up" a diamond wheel bought from Arc Euro (happy customer, no connection to firm etc)?

Obviously ( or maybe it isn't) I can't use a diamond or can I ???

Ian

[Engine BuilderParticipant @enginebuilder]

Arceuro trade do some at a good price too.

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

I was daft enough to buy two sets of drills from Axminster a few years ago, and they are total rubbish. Some are much too hard and snapp as soon as you start to cut, others are the opposite and bend, and most are ground with the points off center. All this happens whilst trying to drill BRASS !!!! No i am not a hamfisted sod, i have a set of imperial,letter, & number drills bought from Arc Euro many years ago and they are still giving good service. I find the number, and letter drills very usefull for drilling a few thou undersize before using a reamer.

Cheers Derek.

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

I bought several ER25 collets from ArcEuro as they were the lowest cost and I've been very satisfied with quality and accuracy. Colin