A QCTP question, or two

A QCTP question, or two

Home Forums Workshop Tools and Tooling A QCTP question, or two

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 64 total)
  • Author
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  • #217565
    Tim Stevens
    Participant
      @timstevens64731

      I have acquired a small QCTP set (via a man who came down the chimney) which is sold on e-bay for about 25 quid, and I have questions:

      1. There are two toolholder positions, but the holders are so long that only one can be used at any time. Is this a mistake or have I misunderstood something?

      2. Should I mill away the interfering corners at the end further from the cutting position?

      3. The toolholders and the main block are light alloy. Are my doubts about strength, life, etc justified?

      4. Would I be better off making up something similar from proper steel?

      Seasonal wossnames to y'all

      Tim

      #17934
      Tim Stevens
      Participant
        @timstevens64731
        #217566
        Peter Krogh
        Participant
          @peterkrogh76576

          You're not missing anything Tim. They are intended to hold one tool at a time. As for the alloy, I've never seen one made from that material, only steel.

          Pete

          #217568
          herbert punter
          Participant
            @herbertpunter99795

            Gloster tools make a QCTP in alloy, I've never used one but they have been selling them for a long time.

            #217570
            Peter Krogh
            Participant
              @peterkrogh76576

              Are the alloy tool posts anodized or something to stop the alloy parts sticking?

              Pete

              #217574
              Tim Stevens
              Participant
                @timstevens64731

                From what I have seen, the Gloster version is very similar to the one from the far east, so it could possibly be that they do not 'make' it themselves. It is also about twice the price. The one I have looks remarkably like the pictures of both offerings. And while the central block is 'silver coloured' with a fine shot-blast finish, the holders are blackened. I cannot say whether either has been anodised or merely painted.

                Regards, Tim

                #217575
                NJH
                Participant
                  @njh

                  No Tim , as Peter says don't modify your holders. The advantage of the QCTP ( mine is the "conventional" type) is that you have a holder for each tool ( I have 15!! ). You set each up to be on centre height then just change between tools as required.

                  Regards

                  Norman

                  #217581
                  Bazyle
                  Participant
                    @bazyle

                    Unlike Norman's picture above it is more common to have the block rotated 90 degrees clockwise from as shown so that one mounting is close to the lathe centre line for holding a boring tool or combined facing and chamfering tool. As every tool becomes expensive to mount it is worth thinking whether you can combine them and also use the other end by using long toolbits.

                    A QCTP is not just for setting centre height. As they mount repeatably in the same place this is also in the same place relative to one another which you can use to advantage. Use a cranked right hand knife tool if possible so that its cutting point is exactly in line with the facing tool so after facing you do not need to reset your reference for the new tool. Then set the parting / grooving tool left hand front and edge to align with the knife too. Finally align your screwcutting tool for matching depth.

                    So for example you can face off, cut a length for threading then go straight in with the groove for screw cutting tool clearance, then switch to screwcutting all aligned to each other.

                    Finally if you set the cross slide index on zero with the tool on a known round figure diameter, eg 1/2 in and don't fiddle with it you know it will be at zero when dead centre. Then you can cut close to required size on the dial and only check for the final precision cuts.

                    #217582
                    Vic
                    Participant
                      @vic

                      That's a nice collection you have there Norman. Not seen an upside down parting tool holder like that before, did you make it or buy it?

                      #217590
                      NJH
                      Participant
                        @njh

                        Well spotted Vic! I have another QC tool post that mounts on the back of the (long) cross slide and the "upside down" parting tool is fitted there. Parting is thus achieved by "withdrawing" the cross slide. Having parted off then the conventionally (front) mounted tool can be used for the next item. (Tool post, holder and blade were purchased )

                        Bazyle yes I agree it is more usual for it to be positioned 90 deg C/W but this photo was taken for a thread many many posts ago just to demonstrate my (bodged up!) mounting for a dti for setting up 4-jaw work.

                        As to "economising" on the number of tool holders yes you have a point but having the tool you need ready mounted saves time and frustration.

                        Norman

                        #217592
                        Vic
                        Participant
                          @vic
                          Posted by NJH on 23/12/2015 19:25:04:

                          Well spotted Vic! I have another QC tool post that mounts on the back of the (long) cross slide and the "upside down" parting tool is fitted there. Parting is thus achieved by "withdrawing" the cross slide. Having parted off then the conventionally (front) mounted tool can be used for the next item.

                          Norman

                          Sounds like an ideal setup. Can't quite see, is it a "T" parting blade?

                          #217595
                          Bazyle
                          Participant
                            @bazyle

                            Of course you will sometimes also want to set it as Norman has for getting to the outside of a flywheel for example.

                            That DTI mount is neat and could be a dual use holder by putting a boring tool in the holder having the DTI bracket acting as packing for said tool.

                            #217597
                            Tim Stevens
                            Participant
                              @timstevens64731

                              The idea of replacing the tool in exactly the same place is not possible with the kit I have, as the location relies on two sides of a (fairly slack fitting) wedge, pushed out by a piston. Nothing to hold it properly central.

                              Thanks for the comments, everyone. I now know why the fancy ones are more expensive.

                              A further question:

                              I understand the workings of the piston type (even if better located) and the wedge type, and what NJH calls his 'conventional' type, but what is the sort with a short length of coarse thread, cut away on one side, around the adjuster nut called? And how does it work?

                              Cheers, Tim

                              PS: Aha, a better look at the NJH upper picture allows me to guess that the cut away thread is on a separate spindle on the central block and it serves to operate the draw-back action of the holding device and to hold down the adjuster flange itself. Is that correct? And apart from 'conventional' is there a name for it?

                              Edited By Tim Stevens on 23/12/2015 21:25:56

                              #217598
                              Vic
                              Participant
                                @vic

                                Arguably one of the best types of QCTP is the type shown in Normans picture. These were originally made by Dickson but others have copied the design and some are even interchangeable. The tool posts themselves are available in quite a range of different sizes to suit different Lathes.

                                 

                                http://www.myford.co.uk/acatalog/Myford_Quick_Change_Toolpost_and_Accessories.html

                                Just one supplier, Chronos also sell something similar.

                                 

                                Edited By Vic on 23/12/2015 21:57:09

                                #217602
                                Emgee
                                Participant
                                  @emgee

                                  Like Bazyle I have a habit of setting all tools where possible to the same X=00 setting, this makes life easier when entering tool offsets into the program when using cnc. Tools that can be set this way are RH, Neutral, LH, Grooving, Parting, Chamfering & External threading.

                                  Emgee

                                  #217604
                                  Michael Gilligan
                                  Participant
                                    @michaelgilligan61133
                                    Posted by Tim Stevens on 23/12/2015 21:21:50:

                                    … not possible with the kit I have, as the location relies on two sides of a (fairly slack fitting) wedge, pushed out by a piston. Nothing to hold it properly central.

                                    .

                                    Tim,

                                    I am ready to be proved wrong, but; I think you will find that pushing loose-fitting male/female dovetails into engagement [by pressure at about the mid-point] will automatically centralise them … It would be worth doing a few practical tests on your QCTP.

                                    MichaelG.

                                    #217608
                                    Neil Wyatt
                                    Moderator
                                      @neilwyatt

                                      My home made QCTP is repeatable to within a few thou, but not perfect.

                                      It was one of my most successful home builds, and transforms the use of the lathe – you do need plenty of toolholders though, I find 12 is not enough!

                                      Neil

                                      #217612
                                      Bill Pudney
                                      Participant
                                        @billpudney37759
                                        Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/12/2015 23:53:10:

                                        My home made QCTP is repeatable to within a few thou, but not perfect.

                                        It was one of my most successful home builds, and transforms the use of the lathe – you do need plenty of toolholders though, I find 12 is not enough!

                                        Neil

                                        Quite right!! I have 23 or 24 and am planning more!!

                                        cheers

                                        Bill

                                        #217622
                                        Chris Evans 6
                                        Participant
                                          @chrisevans6

                                          Norman, Can you tell me the source of your Dickson style holders please ? The pattern ones I have bought do not lock up as they should and I could do with buying another 5 or 6 as I only have 4 at present. Genuine ones are to pricey for me. Chris.

                                          #217628
                                          Vic
                                          Participant
                                            @vic

                                            Dickson tool holders often sell for around £20 second hand at the shows. No idea what the posts cost though.

                                            #217629
                                            KWIL
                                            Participant
                                              @kwil

                                              Bill,

                                              Didn't know this was a competition! You do not stand a chance!

                                              45 with normal tooling, 1 with 2 wheel knurling tool, 1 with keyway slotter, 2 special, homemade to take 16mm boring bar and very special for variable helix angle screw cutting. 3 known spare unused, so that is 52 and that is just the Myford size.

                                              The Harrison M300 ones are somewhat larger in size but smaller in number. Cost a fortune but time and money has to be interchangeable.

                                              Must make some Barry Jordan style carrousels to hold them sometime

                                              Edited By KWIL on 24/12/2015 10:15:01

                                              #217638
                                              Bazyle
                                              Participant
                                                @bazyle

                                                Chris, if it helps Chronos are doing Myford size Soba holders at about £11 at the moment in 5 off quantity. Haven't tried one for fit yet but the post was from the same source so interchangeability should be less of an issue. An interesting point in a way as I've never thought of bluing one to check on contact area.

                                                BTW not advising it necessarily but I use a Myford size on a 4 1/2 Boxford on a 1/4 raising plate. At the time I didn't have anything to compare so did not know I had been given the wrong size until I came to buy more holders. At least it makes the holders cheaper and I'm not making parts for battleships anyway so plenty rigid enough.

                                                #217656
                                                Vic
                                                Participant
                                                  @vic

                                                  Tim, you may find this of interest.

                                                  **LINK**

                                                  RDG do a five piece set starting at £84 inc. not worth making at this sort of price?

                                                  http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Quick_Change_Toolposts__Complete_Sets_.html

                                                  Edited By Vic on 24/12/2015 12:30:26

                                                  #217670
                                                  Tim Stevens
                                                  Participant
                                                    @timstevens64731

                                                    M Gillingham says:

                                                    … I think you will find that pushing loose-fitting male/female dovetails into engagement [by pressure at about the mid-point] will automatically centralise them … It would be worth doing a few practical tests on your QCTP.

                                                    In an ideal world this would be expected, but I have doubts about the bits I have. The central plunger is not very wide, so it has little centralising influence. I can hold the parts in my hand with light pressure on the cam arm, and the toolblock can, in effect, swivel around from touching one side of the angle faces to the other. I fear that under side pressure on the tool this is likely to be what happens.

                                                    Clearly the Dickson type is better in this respect as the end of the toolblock carries a 90 degree V groove which locates the block definitely.

                                                    Thanks everyone for shining some light into the dark corners of my understanding.

                                                    Don't drink too much, or too little, do you hear?

                                                    Regards, Tim

                                                    #217671
                                                    NJH
                                                    Participant
                                                      @njh

                                                      _dsc0127-edit.jpg

                                                       

                                                      For Vic's benefit- but maybe of interest to others also here are some pictures of my rear tool post QC parting arrangement.

                                                       

                                                      _dsc0122.jpg_dsc0124.jpg

                                                      As you can see it is a substantial item and fits firmly to the cross slide by a three point attachment. It does need to be the long version cross slide to get it all on and still leave room to work. If not carrying out parting on a particular time the tool can be removed or maybe a chamfering tool could be added to ( yet another ) toolholder.

                                                      As far as the source of the tool holders they are either Myford originals or Chronos I think. ( Always a useful item for those who don't know what to buy you for xmas etc.)

                                                      As KWIL says if you are going to have quick change tooling ( and I certainly recommend it !) then there is no point in economising on the number of holders or it becomes "not so fast change"! I'm not so sure about 52 holders though ! That risks becoming "Quick Change Once You Can Find It " ( In my workshop anyway !)

                                                      Norman

                                                       

                                                      Edited By NJH on 24/12/2015 14:57:42

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