Record Machine Vice – Any info?

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Hi there

I have just aquired a Record Machine vice. I thought it would be perfect for use on my CL500M as it has 3 Jaws and also 3″ opening. I currently use a Nippy which are great but has obvious limitations.

I’ve never seen one of these before – does anyone know anything about it? Model No, etc?

Regards

[peak4Participant @peak4]

A Record 643 I think; this is from a 1963 catalogue, a 1937 cat. shows a similar earlier model, the 243 series

https://archive.org/details/RecordCatalogueNo171963/page/n17/mode/2up

Bill

[peak4Participant @peak4]

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

Yes Danni, I have one which I use on the CNC mill all the time.  Excellent vice & very robust/accurate/repeatable.  Perhaps a little higher than some vices, but that’s not a problem for me.

Mine doesn’t have a handle like yours – it’s just the knob with holes, so I tighten by hand then put a removable bar in the holes to clamp, which I prefer.

I think yours has had a harder life than mine, but the jaws are easily changed. I sometimes use soft aluminium jaws on it for holding funny shapes.

Anyway, enjoy it!

cheers Will

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Nice design, would keep ingress of swarf to a minimum.

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Hi Im sorry guys – I didnt know anyone had replied. I will check my email filters.

Fatgadgi can you share some pics of yours please?

Also, what thickness are your Jaws?

I have decided to make new jaws for mine – so looking for info about that so I can buy the bar. Should be simple enough to make as long as I get the correct bar.

Q. Can anyone advise what bar would be best for hard jaws that I can machine (drill and mill a V) before hardening without any special furnace, etc.? and Possible what I can buy small lengths.

Cheers

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Gauge plate.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Any particular reason they need to be hard?, all mine are either brass or aluminium (doesn’t mark the work).

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

I use mild steel, and like brass or ally wont damage the work, or any tools and cutters that may get a bit too close.

I make mine maybe 1/4 higher than the vice body, and with the jaws shut cut a 3/32 deep groove with a 3/16 cutter to make a slot that can hold thin narrow stock. when this get worn, i can skim the jaws back and start again.

Chris Gunn

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Smooth jaws, what’s to mark anything?

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

Hi Danni

Photo of vice below (sorry it on the mill table at the moment.

I guess my jaws are original – rear one is 25.2mm thick, and you can see, it has grooves in it.  Moving jaw is 18.9mm thick and is plain.  Both jaws are hard.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Hard jaws are clearly more robust. Grooved type will definitely be better if hard.

However for folk like us any tough steel will work well enough. New ones are easily made if you do damage them. For small and delicate work much to be said for aluminium jaws cut to size in situ just like the CNC guys do for production work.

Model Engineers and Home Workshop folk tend to overthink the durability thing. Odds are we will never use something enough to need industrial levels of durability. Simple stuff is easily made if we do damage things. I’d just get a bit of decent bar the right size, set up and chop out as many jaw blanks to use up the bar. Fit and modify as needed.

Clive

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Thanks all (esp. Bill for images) I really appreciate the input.

I did consider making the jaws a little taller (than the 1-1/4″) so I can get a stop clamp on.

Will (fatgadgi) – thats a handsome vice.

I should have asked earlier – do you have any idea of the V-size (being a bit OCD here!)?

I am surprised about the 18.9mm front jaw. Mine has been changed to 1/4″ (and I expected 1/2″ max) – probably because the job required the opening. Maybe I should make a thinner jaw set to get that back if needed and poss a thinner back jaw also (mine is 3/4″ and the least I think it could be is 5/8″ because of the Cap Head bolts. So from standard 2-1/2″ (63mm) to 3 3/8″max (85.7mm).

Also, Id be interested if you have devised any special tooling, jigs, clamps, etc to get it square or for work holding?

I need to attach mine to a Machine Block and I would like to either fix that semi-permanently or make a jig for fast/true attachment (there is probably another thread for that stuff).

I will harden it because thats the original and because I don’t want them to mark or distort and then transfer that to the job. Making additional/other types (thinner and soft) should be a simple matter.

Chris – nice idea – I may put a step for holding in another set – as I like that on my Nippy. But I have a thin parallel set and the Slide is ground flat so shouldnt be necessary for me to use as original.

Now just need to get hold of the bar. Anyone any ideas where to get without getting ripped off?

cheers

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi. this looks to be an earlier version, I don’t know the exact date, but probably late 1930’s to early 1940’s, due to the sticker on one of the front pages of the catalogue.

Regards Nick.

 

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Clive – you posted as I was writing the previous.

I may do just that. Yesterday I got the below price from WYS

*************

Tool Steel

1 off      75mm x 12mm x 32mm

1 off      76mm x 25mm x 32mm

£135 lump sum + £35 carriage (excluding VAT)

Delivery               2-3 w/days

*************

Clearly, this prat thinks he needs to fire the furnace up especially.

Other prices I’ve received start at £39 for the two pieces – which is not happening either.

Cheers

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Nick – Thanks for that. That looks like a better Vice, albeit less compact.

i’d love to find one.

cheers

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Danni, there’s one at https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1166589052/vintage-record-no-243-machine-vice but look at all the photos before deciding.

Regards Nick.

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Thanks Nick

Mmmm. Anyone describing that as patina is taking the P

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Don’t make any new jaws too high, a clamping pressure point that is too far above the screw / body will exacerbate  jaw lift (or should that be ‘dip’?).. ..I see Record chose to keep ’em low..

I would say that if your milling activities include ‘everyday jobbing’, then use the hardest jaws you can find/make – it’s possible to ‘raise a bruise’ even in mild steel if say, clamping a small/hard/thin/narrow/slightly irregular workpiece that’s going to have some aggressive process visited upon it.

 

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Thanks Diogenes – I will just go with the standard first and see what I need when Im using then

Does anyone know – when I harden these O1 will I need to have them Ground flat again afterwards? How much distortion (if any) will occur?

cheers

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Danni, no idea where you’re based, so this might not help.
A friend of mine used to make spare jaws for British bench vices out of 01 tool steel commercially, machined, hardened & tempered.
I think he used Phoenix for his supplier; certainly I’ve used them when needing silver steel bar in the past.
https://toolsteels.co.uk/tool-steels-stockholders-sheffield.php

There’s also this outfit in Sheffield, but not sure of their pricing.
Sheffield Gauge Plate

Bill

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Some distortion is more-or-less unavoidable, on the other hand they are not large pieces and it’d be a fairly straightforward job for anyone with a surface grinder to square them.

When it comes to the heat treatment, it’ll be the fine details of the ‘how you do it’ which helps make the difference, hopefully someone here will step in and offer you the benefit of wider a experience than mine, which er, tends to the basic..

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Thank you again for your replies. Cheers Bill – I looked up the links, but an enquiry I have made on eBay from a private seller came up trumps and I’ve managed to get the O1 for a very reasonable price.

Thanks, Diogenes. I also asked the O1 seller for his opinion on my method (gathered from this forum and YouTube), and he approves.

I will probably make a set of Soft jaws at the same time, but the aluminium is proving to be expensive also. Maybe I’m just a tight git. It is finished to size, though, so it should be a very basic drill/tap and face-off job.

cheers

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Danni, still no idea where you are, but this is my stainless & alloy supplier; web site only shows stainless, but they also stock alloy bar.
Visitor prices tend to be cheaper than website, as they also have a selection of bar ends.
AMB Steels Sheffield

Bill

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Thanks Bill

Sorry – Manchester.

I will keep the contact details though. The P&P cost is the problem I think – when its more than the value of the material.

I expect everyone has the same frustration when buying small qty materials.

cheers

[Author]

Posts