Tools you hate using or just don’t get on with?

[southernchap]

On southernchap Said:

They key to them producing repeatable results is the ability to snug up the ‘lock’ just enough so they are set to the bore diameter as you rotate them out of the bore, but will remain at that settings afterwards, and that the tightening up of the ‘lock’ to then measure in the micrometer doesn’t alter the setting.

Could you explain the snugging up of the lock “just enough” when the gauge is in the bore and the extra tightening once it is out of it?

I can see no advantage in this and only an increase in the potential for error.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

That’s 15 minutes of my life I’ll not get back!

For me, the problem is setting the tool.  This can only be achieved by “feel”.  The plungers need to be exactly normal to the bore in both the X and Y plane, (side to side, back to front).  The video guy may well achieve ther correct “feel” in one plane by forcing the semi-locked plungers against the bore, what about the other plane?  Check this and one may well lose the setting in the other plane.  The video guy assumes the device finds the other plane for you, it might.  I would much rather be in full control of taking an accurate measurement.  Its interesting that the video guy uses “feel” to fit the micrometer to the gauge rather than the ratchet.  I cannot recall seeing an experienced machinist using the ratchet.

Consider the bore gauge that is a short micrometer head with different length extensions, they start around an inch, my set goes to 12″.  Its very much easier to use than the type in question.  Moving the device side to side, front to back in the bore being measured, (assuming one is stood infront of a lathe, for instance), its easy enough, with a little practice, to get the best fit for measurement.  With a little practice, very accurate measurements can be taken, relatively easy to “split the thou”.  I would like to see the telescopic device achieve that.

My favoured way of measuring internal diameters is, for 3 to 13mm, a small hole gauge, AKA expanding ball.  13 to 25mm , internal three point micrometers, I have three (imperial) mics to cover that range. 25mm and above, as described in the second paragraph.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

“The video guy may well achieve the correct “feel” in one plane by forcing the semi-locked plungers against the bore”

Why would the plungers be anything other than unlocked at that stage?

“ Its interesting that the video guy uses “feel” to fit the micrometer to the gauge rather than the ratchet.”

He’s probably afraid of altering the setting after only lightly “snugging” the lock.

Since the mic ratchet is there to maximise repeatability, I can’t think of any reason why you’d sometimes use it and sometimes not, unless you were dealing with very delicate components or were afraid of moving an insufficiently tightened tool/component or were aiming for a reading you wanted rather than a more accurate one.

 

[martin haysomParticipant @martinhaysom48469]

bill

best way is to measure a bore of known size. when you get the same reading as you know the the part is you know you are doing it right and i never use the rachet on my mike, once you develope  the “feel” you will get repeatability

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The least reliable item in my workshop?

Oh, its owner….

Tends to fall apart at a sniff of CAD, puts things down then fails to find them five minutes later, would be better trying to file a curve where a straight edge is required, is forever remaking things through failing to see the best way in the first place (not by low accuracy or quality, but poor “design”), cannot move one object or place it on a shelf without six other things falling off…

The metal- and wood- working equipment?

Oh, that’s all fine.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I don’t there are many tools I hate using, if any, and I’ve used a lot of different tools in my life, from light weight to heavy duty, although there were plenty of jobs I disliked doing, but I did erne a good living for doing them. Working out in the rain was my pet hate, but some of us had to do it.

Regards Nick.

 

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I use pin gauges or just a set of drill blanks to measure smaller holes. Very easy, plenty accurate.

[Bill Phinn]

On Bill Phinn Said:

“The video guy may well achieve the correct “feel” in one plane by forcing the semi-locked plungers against the bore”

Why would the plungers be anything other than unlocked at that stage?

If my understanding of his technique is correct, the lock is lightly applied so as the gauge is rotated in the bore it will remain at its shortest and possibly the diameter of the bore?  Then fully lock on removal from the bore for measurement.

“ Its interesting that the video guy uses “feel” to fit the micrometer to the gauge rather than the ratchet.”

He’s probably afraid of altering the setting after only lightly “snugging” the lock.

Since the mic ratchet is there to maximise repeatability, I can’t think of any reason why you’d sometimes use it and sometimes not, unless you were dealing with very delicate components or were afraid of moving an insufficiently tightened tool/component or were aiming for a reading you wanted rather than a more accurate one.

The guy in the video uses his mic by “feel” rather than the ratchet, but is happy to rely on, what amounts to luck, for an accurate measurement, possibly?   I think that the suggestion that the ratchet is some sort of fiducial indicator is flawed.  One still needs to “feel” the mic onto the work, the ratchet doesn’t really help with that.  Learning to read the mic scale is the easy bit, developing the feel is a lot harder.

 

Just to be clear and in keeping with the thread title, I don’t hate telescoping gauges, I just don’t get on with them.  There must be many who do, they’ve been in Mititoyu’s catalogue for many years.

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I have not tried using my bore gauges but the discussion suggests they require a fair bit of practice.

This could be gained using the bores in precision-manufactured components like bearings.

(I test the reliability of my calipers and micrometers against the external diameters of such items.)

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Extended-nose running centres can be a very unsatisfactory article of tooling..

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I had a cheap but big chop saw from B&Q. Initially I quite liked it but over time things broke – like the safety guard and the on/off switch. By the time I used it for the decking the ‘switch’ was the mains plug and the blade was spinning in almost free air. The stress of using it was just too much and I binned it before I finished the decking.

First big saw I had was a dewalt radial arm saw which was supposed to be jack of all trades. It just was not stiff enough. Try ripping with it and it would bind. Cross cuts didn’t stay square for long. And it took up a lot of space.

Common theme so far seems to be cheaper woodworking power tools. I prefer hand-tools for most things if I have the energy but a decent induction motor table saw is very nice.

I’m not a fan of dremel type things. I have a Milbro pendant motor now – much nicer.

[jaCK Hobson]

On jaCK Hobson Said:

I prefer hand-tools for most things

Not very accurate statement… I use battery tools a lot.

[John MC]

On John MC Said:

The guy in the video uses his mic by “feel” rather than the ratchet, but is happy to rely on, what amounts to luck, for an accurate measurement, possibly?   

A man of Adam Booth’s experience is using a lot more than “luck” when he uses his metrological equipment.

“I think that the suggestion that the ratchet is some sort of fiducial indicator is flawed”

I’ve never heard anyone make such a suggestion. Have you?

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

My money would be on angle grinders, I used them a lot for cutting and grinding and sanding, and now my workshop is filthy with dust. My fault, but use them outside, and make sure the sparks dont hit your patio doors/windows.

Chris Gunn.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

It’s electronic devices that bug me. You know, the ones that have 73 functions accessed via combinations of presses of four buttons and a miniscule 2 line LCD display. The DIY electronic indexers are a good example.

I had hoped that sensibly sized touchscreens would help this, for example adding an on-screen number pad to enter numbers, but the emphasis is still on pretty pictures and ‘exciting UI updates’ that move things about and change the colours. Does anybody but a newly employed graphic designer really find different typefaces or rounding icon corners exciting?

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Well said Nick I’m with you there!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Expanding Chris’ point about angle-grinders, the dust is of course abrasive, but also if the range is short the incandescent particles that hit windows will pit the glass.

I learnt this having disc-cut some lengths of steel very close to the side of my car.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, it’s always best to wear a leather apron when using angle grinders, as the sparks will damage your clothing, but you should make sure that the sparks are not getting onto anything flammable, or things that will be damaged by them, like glass, paintwork, plastics etc. and also any stainless steels, and other non ferrous metals that you may wish to use.

Regards Nick.

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Nick you are right about the clothes, i have a few old sweat  shirts with holes at the lower right where the sparks hit you when cutting off in the vice. I also had half a cotton buffing wheel gently smoulder away after being set alight by a grinder spark.

Chris Gunn

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Chris, been there in the far off days of work, but mostly to my overalls/boiler suit.

Regards Nick.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I have no problems with telecopic guages. place in bore at a slight angle to the axis of the bore. Tighten knurled handle lock nut and tip over center to set the length only once dont repeat as you will get a false reading. Check length of probe with a micrometer and note size. check at a diferant axis to check for ovality and then further down bore to check for taper in bore.

David

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I took off my brand new prescription glasses and placed them on a shelf some 2 meters from the bench. Used the angle grinder wearing my safety goggles. When I put my glasses back on, there were specs of iron dust “welded to the lenses” !

Bob

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Nick I almost dare not mention my far off days at work, I nearly set fire to the AEI cable reel factory in Gravesend when doing some work during their August shut down. The sparks set fire to some oily wood shavings, and all i had was 1/2 a bottle of coca cola to try and put it out. I could’nt summon the other half of the coca cola to help either, so fire extinguishers had to be deployed, causing a big drama.

Chris Gunn

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Chris, not quite the same, but I once had some spanners in a 100mm high tube of methanol, dissolving some resin off them, a little while later I saw a low very pale blue flame, and the top of the tube sinking down. As it happens, someone was using an angle grinder on the other side of the workshop, which reached the tube, and so a fire blanket was swiftly thrown over it to put the flame out, and no damage was done to anything, except the poor tube, which was reduced to about 50mm in hight. Many people don’t realise how far these sparks can go.

Regards Nick.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I wish to make a steel frame to hold the motor and assorted pulleys and belts for the necessary speed reduction, to drive a small, ancient horizontal milling-machine.

The obvious way is to weld at least some components- well, I say “welding”. My “welding” is throwing enough molten steel at the work for sufficient to hit the joint and stick to both sides.

The hot-melt glueing, OK, with care. (Pauses to close the Warco banner for the third time in two minutes…) The accompanying angle-grinding, no.

Not inside the shed, itself reasonably fireproof but packed with lathes, bench-drills, vertical mill, jig-borer and the mill the subject herein, none of which would appreciate being sprayed with abrasives.

Not out doors either, in the garden in the middle of a drought……

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